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Frederick the Great, discussion post 16
We have slowed down a lot, but are still (sporadically) going! And somehow filled up the last post while I wasn't looking!
...I was asked to start a new thread so that STDs could be discussed. Really! :D
...I was asked to start a new thread so that STDs could be discussed. Really! :D
With You, There's a Heaven
This and "How I Survived My First Christmas with the Hohenzollerns" came about because:
- I had a Fritz/Suhm WIP already written that was based around Suhm shipping Fritz/Fredersdorf. It included him offering to do the French/German glosses for them (which is obviously an allusion to his translation of Wolff for Fritz a few years later).
- I needed to build some Fritz/Fredersdorf around that core, but was blanking on plot.
- I remembered
- I asked her if I could borrow some ideas.
- She generously agreed, but said that she'd already written a couple scenes and might want to turn it into a real fic someday. She said we could call it a remix.
- I both wanted to read her fic, which I was convinced would be awesome, and to make sure you got a treat,
- Her response: "Great idea! But first I have to write hateshippy incest, because now that I've seen your idea about comfort sex/hate sex, I CAN'T UNSEE IT."
As we were getting close to being done with our fics,
Most of all, I am still SHOCKED I wasn't the first person to tag Suhm on AO3! I was so sure "With You, There's a Heaven" was going to be it!
And I'm just so grateful, since even though I didn't sign up for the exchange, I consider all fics with Suhm to be gifts for me, in the same way your "Katte lives" fic is a gift for me in my heart.
*sparkly hearts*
Oh,
We tried to fit them into the same universe, but couldn't quite, so they're very close parallel universes.
And then we read yours, and it had some amazingly close parallels itself, though of course it was the most different, as well as being the slashiest (omg that ending, thank you for that ending).
This exchange has been the best! We knew you knew you were getting a fic, but we were pretty sure we could still surprise you with the fact that you were getting FOUR. And I remain very pleased with the surprise that *I* got one. ;)
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
Terrific and touching explanation for the Diaphanes nickname!
AAAHHH you picked up on this! I put it in there knowing no one else would, and very much hoping you would. :DD
That's my headcanon for the nickname. I know most of Fritz's friends got silly or random or obvious nicknames, but this one is so obscure, with different historians putting forth different speculations, that I could do what I wanted, and I want something that's meaningful. And Blanning says Fritz was really big on light/dark metaphors as part of the whole Enlightenment thing. So this was perfect.
I didn't spell out that it was a nickname for two reasons. One, I couldn't make it fit as anything but a tangent. Two, I *do* have it spelled out in my fix-it fic1, and on the off chance that I ever finish it, I want to keep it there.
Until I got to this scene, it hadn't occurred to me that this would have been likely the first they met since before Katte's death.
I can't be sure it was, but it seems likely.
June 1730: Zeithain camp. Fritz and Katte are there. *Surely* Suhm is, short of being deathly ill.
1730, mid-July: Fritz leaves on the trip west with FW.
Rest of 1730: Fritz tries to run away, gets locked up.
November 1731: Fritz let out for the first time, to attend Wilhelmine's wedding. Now, maybe he met Suhm on this occasion, but Suhm wasn't in Berlin full time, I believe, and Fritz was still under house arrest and being watched like a hawk, so if they did meet, it might have been brief and supervised.
November 1732: Fritz's next visit to Berlin? Where was he when he got engaged to EC and met FS?
Anyway, there's at least a decent chance November 1732 was his first meeting with Suhm, especially with Suhm coming and going between Berlin and Dresden, and Fritz under supervision. I'm assuming that as time went on, his leash gradually got longer.
As for why they meet at Suhm's place and not at court...Pfff, I can come up with all sorts of in-universe explanations, but the real reason is I wanted Suhm to feed him and touch him like FW's not in the picture. :P Especially since Wilhelmine is freaking out about the marriage and Fritz can't talk about Fredersdorf to anyone else. I figured Suhm isn't deeply traumatized, isn't dependent on Fritz for his emotional well-being, and only sees him rarely, so it's easier for him to consistently present a supportive front without letting his own emotions get in the way.
As great as Fritz confiding in Suhm about Fredersdorf was, I adore Fritz telling Fredersdorf this even more; such a psychologically plausible detail that gets Fredersdorf to make the step, asking the question.
Aww, yay, thank you for telling me this. I wanted them to have a catalyst, because there are just too many forces ranged against them as far as becoming lovers.
Finally...
the noble Suhm, who is old enough to be the Prince’s father, practically has stars in his eyes when talking to the Prince.
Not from my fic, but I'm still squeeing over this, thank you so much. SPARKLY HEARTS.
1: Funnily enough, back in May, all my "Can't study German, must write fix-it fic!" really did start out about the fix-it fic. Then you signed up for the exchange, and I pretended for a while that I was still working on that fic. Then I started asking very specific Lehndorff questions and the jig was up. :P I still hope to go back to that fic at some point, but I'm trying to do some German first.
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
And now it's mine as well. I haven't seen any explanation as good or satisfying anywhere else, and I doubt I ever will.
November 1732: Fritz's next visit to Berlin? Where was he when he got engaged to EC and met FS?
Wasn't that in spring? I don't have the relevant books with me in Bamberg, where I am right now, but I think it was in spring. *looks up the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondance in the Fritzian library: yes, it was March 10th 1732 (i.e. the official engangement day), with the first letter dated from Berlin to Wihelmine about the engagement visit dated March 8th. The letter praising FS as witty and charming and what not is dated March 15th. All these letters are dated from Berlin, but Suhm isn't mentioned in them, so chances are he was absent? I don't think Fritz is censoring himself on Dad's account in the letters, because his EC dissing is fairly explicit.
Suhm in my story was for you, but worked nicely as a push for Fredersdorf there as well, which I'm v.v. amused about since I could not know your tale when I wrote it!
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
And now it's mine as well. I haven't seen any explanation as good or satisfying anywhere else, and I doubt I ever will.
<3 I love giving people headcanons! As explanations go, it may be *too* good to be true, but much like Fritz and Peter clearing the air in 1750 and kissing, it's mine and I'm keeping it.
it was March 10th 1732 (i.e. the official engangement day), with the first letter dated from Berlin to Wihelmine about the engagement visit dated March 8th
Okay, so maybe he saw Suhm in November of 31, and maybe in March of 32, but maybe he didn't and maybe December 32 was the first time.
I'm not sure he would necessarily have mentioned Suhm in a letter to Wilhelmine--I don't know if he ever did--but as long as there's no evidence that he *did* see Suhm before Christmas 1732, then my story isn't contradicted by the evidence. It's also entirely possible that he and Suhm laid eyes on each other during one of the formal wedding/engagement events, but didn't have a chance to interact properly, so in some sense, my scene is the first time they've *really* seen each other.
Suhm in my story was for you, but worked nicely as a push for Fredersdorf there as well, which I'm v.v. amused about since I could not know your tale when I wrote it!
I am SO amused. Clearly Suhm's function in life is to catalyze Fritz/Fredersdorf. (And a good function it is.)
Cahn, your function in life is to catalyze Fritzian discussion between me and Selena, which is just as wonderful a function!
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
He did, though not in this year (that I know of). I just looked up Volz' edition of their letters again, and in the year 1736, when Fritz is still in Berlin, we get on March 10th:
Fritz: Little Suhm is my ordinary companion and La Chetardie the extraordinary one. We philosophize at our heart's content. Now we've arrived at the metaphysics of the famous Wolff, undoubtedly the most perfect philosphical work we possess.
Wilhelmine writes back, still in March 1736: I am delighted you're spending your time so agreeably; I would love to join your sessions and learn philosophy in your school. I suspect little Diablotin - for this is how we used to call Suhm back in the day, didn't we? - needs his own philosophy dearly; for he isn't popular at court, and in a bad financial position. Accordingly, his mind will offer him comfort for the losses he suffered. (The rest of the letter is about Wolff, Descartes and the awful Schwedt cousins.)
If Fritz and Wilhelmine, neither of whom were tall, call him "little", I assume Suhm was Heinrich's size?
These are the only references to Suhm in the first Volz volume. I haven't counterchecked Trier, but I don't recall any others there, either. Then again, as one Wilhelmine biographer pointed out, the entirety of the letters of any of the siblings have never been published, always selections because they really wrote such a lot. Anyway, as far as can be seen, you're in the clear re: the first real Suhm and Fritz encounter, and since it's such a wonderful scene, it shall remain my headcanon forever.
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
Oh, man, I had missed that! Okay, there goes my headcanon for Suhm being at least a couple centimeters taller than Fritz. (*cough* On which the eyelid-kissing was based, ahem. Well, Fritz would totally tilt his head for comfort while crying, but the fix-it fic either needs to have an unhistorically tall Suhm, or some rephrasing of some lines.) Thanks for this, subdetective and royal reader
for he isn't popular at court
Clearly, he's too short for FW! (His not being in favor with FW is part of my in-universe reason for why Fritz, just barely out of disgrace himself, sneaks off to visit him. In subsequent years, my headcanon has them meeting at court. Like I said: totally self-indulgent of me to set the scene where Suhm could devote himself to taking care of Fritz for one evening.)
in a bad financial position
Yes, this is the year (iirc) that Fritz suggests he read Seneca's "On Indifference to Wealth." They then spend the rest of their correspondence making sure Fritz gets as much money as possible out of the Russian court, beginning in 1737. Fritz.
So, this means another Fritizan boyfriend that Wilhelmine liked!
Wilhelmine approves: Voltaire, Algarotti, Suhm.
Wilhelmine disapproves: Keith, Katte.
Wilhelmine silent so far: Fredersdorf.
little Diablotin - for this is how we used to call Suhm back in the day, didn't we?
Another unexplained nickname for Suhm! Also oddly like the nickname of the other major Saxon envoy, Manteuffel. She seems uncertain--I wonder if she's actually talking about Manteuffel? The problem is that, judging by the dates in Wikipedia for Manteuffel's presence in Berlin, "back in the day" would have to be either 1711-1717, for which Fritz would be way too young to remember and Wilhelmine almost, or 1733+, which doesn't seem far enough back in the day, nor was she really around for much of that. So maybe Suhm was Diablotin before he was Diaphanes!
La Chetardie the extraordinary one
Oh, speaking of envoys. In researching Fouqué1 for "How I Survived Christmas", I found a letter from Fritz to Fouqué in 1739. Now, Fouqué at the time was on bad terms with the Old Dessauer for not getting promotions as quickly as he'd like, so Fouqué actually left Prussian service for Denmark and only came back after Fritz became king and enticed him back with a promotion. In 1739, Fritz was writing him a letter of recommendation to Denmark, and taking some heat from Berlin for this "unpatriotic" act and defending himself.
But what's interesting to me is that in 1739, when Fouqué is entering Danish military service, Fritz asks him to find out how Løvenørn is doing. Løvenørn the former Danish envoy to Prussia, who allegedly tipped off Katte to his arrest, and whose compatriot von Johnn leaked the Katte pamphlet.
So Fritz still remembers Løvenørn fondly ten years later and is asking after him.
One thing I've discovered in the last year is that the envoys are where it's at in this fandom.
Anyway, as far as can be seen, you're in the clear re: the first real Suhm and Fritz encounter, and since it's such a wonderful scene, it shall remain my headcanon forever.
Aww, thank you. <3 I've been wondering what to make of the silence on the Suhm front between 1730 and 1736. Their correspondence on the Trier site only starts in 1736, and while it's possible that's only a selection, maybe they only really got in touch again during that Berlin visit, after which Fritz asked him to translate Wolff and their correspondence began after Fritz returned to Ruppin.
HOWEVER. I choose to believe they met as often as possible between 1732 and 1735 as well. :P
1: Oh, I also found his biography as written by his more famous grandson, the 19th century German author. The work seemed mostly military, but it had the candle anecdote and is probably our source on that. It's in in the library in case you want to skim and see if there's anything relevant to, say, your Seven Years' War interests, or anything cool that isn't in Wikipedia.
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
Most def, as the kids say in The Wire. They all provide insightful and invaluable nuggests of information and characterisation. Even the odd ones out, like Charles William, mentor of young Poniatowski and enabler of his affair with Catherine, and mutual loather on sight with Fritz during his brief Berlin stint come across vividly.
But if we ever do "walked into a bar" type of fiction, then Mitchell, Valory, at least one of the Saxon envoys (Suhm and Manteuffel would both have different things to contribute, and I'm not discounting the Saxon envoy who finally delivered the smoking gun on Fredersdorf and Gigorijj the handsome husar), Dickens, the Danes (either one) or Poniatowski himself (also, among other things, a Saxon envoy, to the court of St. Petersburg) would get a lively conversation going. And of course... *drumroll*....Seckendorf (Imperial envoy).
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
Valory to Rottembourg: Granted, I only met him once he was on the throne, but seriously? I shudder to think what he'd have been like with absolute power at age 14!
All the Ambassadors from FW's era except Seckendorf: But he's so sensitive, so smart, so abused! We want to adopt him and cherish him!
Seckendorf: ...yeah, well, no. Some cash, that's as far as I'm willing to go, and will I get any thanks for it? No. First he bitches about me in "History of the House of Brandenburg", and then he kidnaps me in my retirement. All just because I ensured he didn't get married to an English princess, which, given the rest of his life, really, what's the problem there?
All the Ambassadors from Fritz' era except Charles Williams: Okay, he is very charming when first you meet him, but then you better be up for verbal fencing, and good lord, that poetry.
Charles Williams (pre 1756): He sucks. Listen to me, young Stanislav: that man's an overrated asshole.
Charles Williams (1756): I'm entering the third stage of syphilis and also Prussia has just become our ally. I therefore turn my opinion on the King of Prussia around by 180 degrees and declare him a total genius and wonderful. I even kiss his portrait.
Stanislav Poniatowski: You're breaking my heart!
Ambassadors
Lol Seckendorf!
...have we talked about Charles Williams before?? *goes to look* Oh, he has a middle name, go figure :) (Charles Williams is the name of one of the Inklings who wrote really bizarre poetry and novels which I love, so I think (?) I would have remembered if we'd talked about him using exactly that name. :) )
Re: Ambassadors
Ambassadors
German Rothenburg. But yes.
Valory to Rottembourg: Granted, I only met him once he was on the throne, but seriously? I shudder to think what he'd have been like with absolute power at age 14!
Less abused! Everyone wins! (Except maybe the French, who aren't going to get anything like the gratitude or dependence they expect, but hey, you can't win them all.)
All the Ambassadors from FW's era except Seckendorf: But he's so sensitive, so smart, so abused! We want to adopt him and cherish him!
Suhm: Adopt! Right, yes, that's what I want to do with him.
:P
(At least for the later stages of the FW era. I would never accuse Suhm of anything inappropriate. The earliest evidence we have of friendship is with the 16-yo, and romantic leanings the 24-yo.)
All just because I ensured he didn't get married to an English princess, which, given the rest of his life, really, what's the problem there?
Lol. But the escaping to Hanover, where FW is not!
Charles Williams (1756): I'm entering the third stage of syphilis and also Prussia has just become our ally. I therefore turn my opinion on the King of Prussia around by 180 degrees and declare him a total genius and wonderful. I even kiss his portrait.
Third stage of syphilis, LOL forever. The envoys keep it interesting!
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Suhm
for I feel that I need your eyes to see, and that, losing sight of my guide, I run the risk of losing my way.
Headcanon!
Re: With You, There's a Heaven
I still can't stop laughing my head off over the fact that three of us decided to cover Fritz/Fredersdorf in the same time period.
Well, after you two kindly wrote their origin story for Christmas, this was the natural follow-up! :)
Re: With You, There's a Heaven
Aww, what a lovely analogy! <33
I did the numbers on your Fritzian gifts just before the collection opened, and you got:
- 4 treats.
- 37,000+ words. (Just in treats! I had no idea at the time your assignment would add another 20,000 words.)
- 7/10 pairings you nominated.
- 5/5 pairings you nominated and requested.
- 2/5 pairings you nominated but didn't request.
- 2 fics on exactly the same events.
- 1 ~20K-word fic with 5 slash pairings and 1 het pairing.
- Incest!
We were greatly inspired by all your nominated pairings and prompts! We also worked in as many allusions as we could (intentional on my part, I'm not sure about cahn's), to the pairings we didn't write.
I put in as much Fritz/Voltaire as I could without bringing Voltaire onto the page.
"A Family Affair" has an allusion to Heinrich/Marwitz in Fritz's "You do go for the ones with diseases, don't you?"
"You think too much about your brother in bed" was 100% because I knew you were getting a Fritz/Heinrich hateship that you'd requested, and I couldn't resist. Speaking of which, did you pick up on this totally not accidental segue?
No matter where he looked in Rheinsberg, he saw Friedrich. Heinrich knew he could live here fifty years, and renovate every corner and every blade of grass, and Rheinsberg would still have Friedrich's long ago stay imprinted on its soul. There was something about him that was impossible to ignore, no matter how much Heinrich might want to.
Heinrich reached down and adjusted his breeches. Where was that damned Mara? He was so turned on he couldn't think straight.
Cahn missed it until I pointed it out. ;) It's meant to correspond to this passage in "A Family Affair":
Heinrich found himself starting to become aroused. Not again! he thought furiously, but it only made it worse; he should know better by now not to think about old lovers when he was angry, that emotion that was close enough to passion that something in his body could not, apparently, tell the difference when they were placed in juxtaposition.
That idea was one I proposed to cahn as an explanation for why Heinrich goes for dysfunctional boyfriends, and how on earth he would end up fucking Fritz right after AW's death. So I thought it would be hilarious to work a Heinrich/Fritz hateship allusion into my fic, especially as Mara is deliberately keeping Heinrich waiting in order to get him more turned on.
Why, why did Mara get even sexier when he had the upper hand in an argument?
Because your body can't tell the difference between two different kinds of arousal, Heinrich!
Btw, I'm glad unhistorical Heinrich/Mara met with your approval, and the reason it was that instead of canon-consistent Heinrich/Kaphengst was because you said you had no interest in Kaphengst, but...I must admit, writing this fic gave me a whole bunch of Heinrich/Kaphengst headcanons, and the itch to write them. I don't know whether I'll end up writing them, in my current state, but if I do, I promise not to gift the result to you. Know that your wonderfully inspirational prompts started me down a path that makes me happy, though. ;)
Well, after you two kindly wrote their origin story for Christmas, this was the natural follow-up! :)
Soooo...curtain fic at Rheinsberg next time? ;)
Ooh, actually, 1736 is a good year, because it's got:
- Rococo babysitting at Ruppin (which is already on your list).
- The move into Rheinsberg, with all that entails, including having to live with EC, but also curtain fic!
- Mimi burning the Wolff manuscript. At least in January 1737, which implies she was around already in 1736 for all kinds of antics, and authors can bend chronology a little as needed anyway.
- Suhm gets his St. Petersburg assignment in November 1736. Alas, from their letters, it looks like they *don't* get to see each other during Fritz's winter visit to Berlin, so it's possible winter 1735 was the last time they saw each other. Anyway, angst potential, and maybe an incognito visit. ;)
On the subject of Mimi and fic, I wrote to cahn, referring to your "unknown heroics of Seydlitz" subject for the comment where you informed us that Seydlitz was at the meeting of Fritz and Heinrich after AW's death:
Speaking of her titles, slightly tweaked by me, I also think "The Unsung Heroics of Seydlitz" would make a great title, unfortunately, not for your fic, because the emphasis is less on how they didn't kill each other (although that's important!) and more on the sex, which that doesn't capture. However, what I think would make an even beeeetter title, if this fic ever gets written, is "The Unsung Heroics of Mimi the Monkey." :P
I've just decided they're unsung because the pandurs don't want to admit they were defeated by a monkey, and the Prussians don't want to admit they were protected by a monkey, and so everyone agrees IT NEVER HAPPENED. :D
I actually started jotting down some notes that day, but the problem is, I suck at crackfic, so if somebody else wanted to write it, know that I would be an eager reader. :D
Re: With You, There's a Heaven
Because your body can't tell the difference between two different kinds of arousal, Heinrich!
Which, delicious fanfiction aside, I think is entirely possible. I mean, obviously not all the time; he was receptive to tenderness as well, and while the Comte being a nice guy might be because Heinrich was old by then and wanting more peace than arguing, I don't think it would have worked if he'd never liked the gentle variation of love before as well. But the biggest turn-on were handsome charismatic jerks.
Know that your wonderfully inspirational prompts started me down a path that makes me happy, though. ;)
That is good to know. And hey, just because I don't ship Heinrich/Kaphengst per se (not because of all the money wasting, it's just that Kaphengst as a person doesn't come across as that interesting to me, doesn't mean I wouldn't read it, especially if a skillful author such as yourself manages to make Kaphengst more dimensional. Sometimes it takes just one particular circumstance. For example, I hadn't seen Mara was much different from Kaphengst (i.e. one more charismatic jerk) but reading that scene from his wife's memoirs where he points out that the Rheinsberg court shouldn't be able to walk on and off during her performance, that's disrespect to the artist, and that's why she should sing inside did make a difference, it made me see him as a person beyond "handsome guy spending first Heinrich's and then Gertrud-Elisabeth's money". Anyway, given the sheer length of the relationship and how much Heinrich was ready to do for him (including postponing the so longed for trip to France!), there clearly must have been something there beyond the obvious.
Soooo...curtain fic at Rheinsberg next time? ;)
Well, I'm toying with the idea of combining curtain fic with babysitting, anyway. Fritz starts out the story in a glorious mood, as he's about to move into Rheinsberg with his beloved (and his wife, but he feels he can cope) and finally live just how he wants, then Mom dumps the brat on him. In addition to everything else, hilarity will be gained by Fritz trying to find some free time with Fredersdorf, with his initial attempt to make EC babysit Heinrich, thus killing two birds with one stone, being spectacularly unsuccessful. BTW, the very first Trier letter from Fritz to Heinrich is dated Rheinsberg, February 3rd 1737, and goes thusly:
My dearest brother,
I am infinitely obliged to you for your memories, and for the cheeses you are kind enough to send me. I would like to have something that could be pleasant to you, in order to show you, my dear brother, that the friendship that I have for you does not yield anything to that which you have for me. You may be sure, my dearest brother.
I am forever with sincere friendship,
My dearest brother,
Your most faithful brother and servant,
Frederic.
Put me, I pray you, very respectfully at the Queen's feet, and assure her from me that no one can be more attached to her than I am.
Now, why would barely 11 years old Heinrich send cheeses to Fritz? My mind irresistably replies: because he robbed the larder while being babysat, and Mom after learning of this made him do something to apologize.
When's the letter to Suhm about the unnamed brother's visit dated again, and does it say Ruppin or Rheinsberg?
Valiant Mimi crackfic: who knows...
Re: With You, There's a Heaven
Yay, I hoped you would! It was there for you. ;)
I mean, obviously not all the time; he was receptive to tenderness as well
Agreed! The fact that in a sexual context, anger makes him more aroused doesn't mean it's the *only* thing that arouses him. But it does mean he'd better watch out when thinking about Fritz and his boyfriends at the same time. ;)
doesn't mean I wouldn't read it, especially if a skillful author such as yourself manages to make Kaphengst more dimensional.
Thank you for the compliment. I hope that if I ever do write it, you enjoy it, but I won't gift it to you for an exchange.
Dimensional: Yep, he would have to be mostly an OC, but sometimes my favorite characters to write are where we know just enough to give me a starting point, but not so much I feel intimidated trying to produce something that feels in-character (the reason I still haven't been able to write Voltaire).
he's about to move into Rheinsberg with his beloved (and his wife
Lolsob.
Now, why would barely 11 years old Heinrich send cheeses to Fritz? My mind irresistably replies: because he robbed the larder while being babysat, and Mom after learning of this made him do something to apologize.
AHAHAHAAAA, total headcanon!
When's the letter to Suhm about the unnamed brother's visit dated again, and does it say Ruppin or Rheinsberg?
May 6, 1736, and Ruppin. I suspect that's part of why he was so upset: his early letters to Suhm from Ruppin are full of complaining that he's busy with his regiment and his health all day, and he has no tiiiiiime to stuuuuudyy. So he's going to give up sleep!
If you do write 1736, I strongly suspect this is the year of the great coffee experiment where Fritz drank All the CoffeeTM, got sick, and realized he couldn't do entirely without sleep after all. I actually don't know what the source on that is--probably one of those posthumously published anecdotes of dubious provenance, if we haven't run into it in a real source yet.
But it remains my headcanon that he did this, not least because when I was an arrogant workaholic teenager who didn't want to sleep when I could be studying, I read about Fritz trying to live on coffee. Anyone else, and I would have assumed they were a mere mortal, whose failure didn't necessarily apply to me. (People attempting to give me advice at that age generally ran afoul of this tendency of mine.) But if *Frederick the Great*, whose workaholism, determination, and general larger-than-life-ness 16-yo me respected, couldn't pull it off, I didn't think I could either, and so I put it on the list of things I shouldn't try. Apocryphal or not, your sacrifice was not in vain, Fritz. ;)
But anyway, he definitely tells Suhm that he's going to try to give up some sleep for learning, and Suhm replies that this may not be the best idea Fritz has ever had. March 1736, in case you want to work that in.
Re: With You, There's a Heaven - Music
I found Ernst Gottlieb Baron, who joined Fritz at Rheinsberg, followed him to court when he became king, and died in his service. He composed for the flute and lute. Perfect!
Since he was a string player (lute and theorbo) himself, and his compositions don't come with dates on Wikipedia, it's possible he only started composing for the flute after working for Fritz, which he hadn't yet done in 1732. But since we don't know, by authorial fiat, I say he composed for the flute and lute already in 1732, and Wilhelmine, who was looking for duets to play with her brother, acquired some by him.
Then I found that he was also a musical theorist who wrote books, and I wanted a recently published music theory book in German for Wilhelmine to mention to Fritz, and for Fritz to pass on to Fredersdorf. I tried to use Baron, but then it turned out his only publication before 1732 was on the lute specifically.
So after conferring with
I found Johann David Heinichen. He published Der General Bass in der Composition, or Basso Continuo in Composition, in 1728. Googling around told me this was an expanded version of a volume he'd written earlier, and gave me this abstract:
Johann David Heinichen’s General-Bass in der Composition (Dresden, 1728) is one of the major sources on the study and practice of harmony in eighteenth-century Europe. It stands alongside writings by Mattheson, Rameau, and C. P. E. Bach as an expression of Enlightenment-era rationalization and rule-making about not only harmony but performance, composition, and even aesthetics.
But how does Fritz feel about Heinichen? He was a composer at the Dresden court who produced mostly religious music, so could go either way, and he died in 1729, so there was no chance of him being hired by Fritz, and relatively little chance of him being badmouthed by name. Then I found that, like Blavet, Heinichen gave Quantz composition lessons. Perfect!
I even told myself that because he came from Dresden, it was even more likely that Suhm would have a copy of his book lying around in his library than Baron's, since if Suhm had any great interest in music, I haven't run across it.
So that's how these passages, with the help of my wonderful music beta, evolved.
In anticipation of his visit, Wilhelmine had acquired some pieces for flute and lute by Ernst Baron. When she mentioned that she'd read his book on the lute, and found it interesting, she did so expecting Fritz to scoff when she had to admit that it hadn't yet been translated into French, but instead he looked oddly interested. So they talked for a while about music theory, and then they began to play.
Then he looked down at his book, and up at Fredersdorf, in one of his rapid-fire changes of topic. "If I could get you some books in German, would you be interested? There's one on the theory of composition that might be to your liking."
"Basso Continuo in Composition," Fredersdorf murmured, as his eyes lingered on the covers. "Thank you, sir. Thank you."
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Wilhelmine's younger sister Charlotte joined in with equal enthusiasm, delivering with relish a description of just how bad she smelled.
This is based on a quote that's in both MacDonogh and Blanning, but in none of my digital copies of Wilhelmine's memoirs, in English or French as far as I and my search function can tell. They can't both be making this up, and it could easily have been bowdlerized, for lo:
MacDonogh: Charlotte was even nastier: she claimed the duke’s daughter ‘stank like rotting flesh’ and accused her of having a good ten or twelve fistulas.
Blanning: One of his sisters announced at the dinner table in his hearing that she had visited her prospective sister-in-law one morning when she was performing her ablutions only to find that she smelled so rank that it had taken her breath away. “She must have a dozen or so anal fistulas, that’s the only possible explanation,” his sister added.
Is this in the German edition?
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The Queen steered the conversation towards the future Princess Royal while we were having supper. "Your brother," she said while looking at me, "is inconsolable about this engagement, and justly so, for she is exceedingly stupid, can only reply with "yes" or "no" to everything, and laughs while doing so in such a silly fashion that one wants to vomit."
"Oh!" my sister Charlotte said, "Your Majesty doesn't even known all her good qualities yet. I attended her getting dressed one morning, and I had to hold my breath, because she smelled like something rotten; she must have at least ten to welve fistulas, otherwise I can't explain it. I also noticed that she's grown mishapenly; her skirt has been padded on one side, and one hip sits higher than the other."
I was very amazed about these speeches, which were held in front of the servants and even in front of my brother. I saw that he blushed and that the words hit him in a sensitive spot. Immediately after supper, he withdrew. I followed suit.
Poor EC. Needless to say, there was nothing wrong with her figure (as even unlovoing bridgegroom Fritz observed, and the stinking is also invented. That she was very shy at this stage and only replied with yes and no, otoh, is reported by other parties (and who wouldn't be, getting thrown into that family), and we know how her efforts to become a better conversationalist ended up annoying Lehndorff and Sophie von Voss who complained about her boring talk instead. :( :( :(
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"Your brother," said she to me, looking closely at him, "is in despair at being obliged to marry her, and not unreasonably : she is a downright fool ; to all that is said to her she replies yes or no, accompanied by a foolish laugh inexpressibly displeasing." I was astonished at this conversation, which was carried on in presence of the servants, and especially as my brother was also present.
Not even any vomiting!
Maybe I should get my hands on the German edition. My German could always use a little more practice. :P
Can you give me the publication details of yours, so I end up with the right one?
Poor EC indeed.
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(I also have a paperback edition, but that's the cut down version which leaves out most of the post marriage stuff anyway.)
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Exactly what I thought.
The edition I used was the one put up on German Amazon Kindle for free, here.
Wonderful! It's also free on Kindle in the US, and sure enough, there are the fistulas.
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This now makes WAY more sense that Wilhelmine was all "but there are servants here listening!!" which as mildred remarked in response to the V. Secret Diary, of course usually servants would be around to listen to things, it seemed with the bowderlized version that it was a sort of mild thing to object to. I thought at the time that maybe it was not the Done Thing to complain about one's future relations in front of the servants? But now I can totally see why she would be all !! about it.
Yeah, poor EC :( I would be terrified of saying anything but yes or no either :(
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now I am totally going to amend it to put the vomiting in. And maybe the fistulas too?
Hee! I deliberately avoided using the quote in mine and kept it to indirect discourse, to reduce overlap between our fics. So if anyone reads both of ours, it would be cool if they got to see the complete quote in yours.
Yeah, poor EC :( I would be terrified of saying anything but yes or no either :(
MacDonogh quote of unknown veracity, from the first meeting of Fritz and EC:
Elisabeth Christine was now informed of the identity of her future husband for the first time. She was asked if she liked him. She turned red and said, ‘Ja’.
Who was it who speculated that Fritz had prepared a bunch of witty one-liners beforehand to see if she could keep up, and then immediately wrote her off when she wasn't prepared for a pop quiz? I thought, "Ooh, that would be just like him," but I can't remember who it was.