Frederick the Great, discussion post 16

[cahn]

We have slowed down a lot, but are still (sporadically) going! And somehow filled up the last post while I wasn't looking!

...I was asked to start a new thread so that STDs could be discussed. Really! :D

Comments

Re: Voltaire and Émilie

[cahn]

I was thinking of this! Though apparently, according to your original report of this line, I had to look up the original for that one, and Fritz writes "la femme", singular.

Is it possible that even though "la femme" is singular that it refers to women in general (so that "women" would actually be a better English translation)? I feel like French does this sometimes, although my French isn't good enough to be able to tell reliably when it does and when it actually means the literal English translation.

Re: Voltaire and Émilie

[mildred_of_midgard]

I can ask my native speaker friend. I also think French uses the singular where we would use the plural, but my guess without actually knowing French is that it would be more in a "women are X" context, speaking of women as a collective, and not in an indeterminate subset of women. Especially since there is a specific woman in the context of this letter. But I may have to eat my words soon! I've already had to eat humble pie around my "putains" French fail. (Go Selena.)

Re: Voltaire and Émilie

[mildred_of_midgard]

Breaking news! Our native French consultant and honorary salon member Guillaume says that it can mean either, but after discussing the context of who's saying what to whom, he's leaning toward singular "the woman" as the most likely intended meaning.

He says it comes across as insulting and misogynistic either way, which, you know, Fritz is a misogynist, news at 11. ;) But given that Fritz is gay and the one forcing the marriage and he's talking specifically about the marriage when he says thus, we agree he's probably not talking about Heinrich's sexuality but about how this marriage is a really great idea, like all of Fritz's ideas.

Plus I gave Guillaume the whole passage, and he says that there would have been much more natural ways to say "women" in that sentence, even if you wanted to be misogynistic about it.

So that's the verdict from our Frenchman.