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Frederick the Great, discussion post 16
We have slowed down a lot, but are still (sporadically) going! And somehow filled up the last post while I wasn't looking!
...I was asked to start a new thread so that STDs could be discussed. Really! :D
...I was asked to start a new thread so that STDs could be discussed. Really! :D
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
Well, he does like those who pay better than those who get paid, so... Okay, more seriously now: if it‘s „putains“, I do think the passage makes it sound more likely he hasn‘t (yet?) had sex with Algarotti when he‘s writing it, and is definitely not concerned Algarotti might have infected him.
Mind you: that Algarotti tells him at all about the STD is interesting. Because when I recall Boswell‘s London journal, the first of his published diaries, and what I was reminded of when reading the Beuys biography again, Georg Wilhelm of Hannover telling Sophie about his, there‘s this common denominator: you tell your potential and actual sexual partners that you are infected, but you do not tell anyone else. (Your doctor, of course, knows.) It‘s definitely not something to boast of even among the guys, see also that sad scene of dying Seydlitz trying to hide his Syphilis-ravaged face when Fritz visits him the last time. Conversely, taunts that X had STD , amply documented in the thread, would not not work as taunts if it wasn‘t regarded as something shameful usually even by ribald guys.
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
I laughed.
I do think the passage makes it sound more likely he hasn‘t (yet?) had sex with Algarotti
If he hasn't had sex with him yet, he's not going to, imo. The most likely times were those few days in September 1739, and July 1740 up until the time of writing of this letter. It's November 29, 1740; on December 16, Fritz will be in Silesia without Algarotti, and Algarotti will depart for Turin on December 24. He will then not see Fritz again for a year, when he will, thoroughly fed up, leave Breslau the day after Fritz arrives. He will soon after go to Saxony and not see him again until 1747, at which point things are still apparently somewhat tense between them.
but you do not tell anyone else. (Your doctor, of course, knows.)
Do you tell your king why you can't come to Rheinsberg to hang out with him and Voltaire? Or, if you've had as many partners as Algarotti probably has, does word get out anyway? I mean, do we think Ludwig v. Wreech had sex with Kaphengst? Lehndorff apparently knew (or "knew") without having had sex with Kaphengst! Containing information is hard, and I have low confidence that it was successful.
Also, Voltaire knows (from Fritz?), without having had sex with Algarotti, so again, I think the grapevine is at work. Fritz might have found out without Algarotti having had to tell him qua past or future partner.
I agree that Fritz seems markedly chill about Algarotti having an STD, and that that's evidence for no past sex between them and a lack of upset about the prospect of future sex. On the other hand, maybe what Blanning was getting at was that Fritz the extremely gay wanted to *start* having sex with Algarotti but never got to, because STD. I think I've read somewhere that Algarotti might have been infected already in 1739. If so, maybe Fritz is resigned and sympathetic but not upset in November 1740, because this is old news, and he hasn't been infected.
would not not work as taunts if it wasn‘t regarded as something shameful usually even by ribald guys.
I don't know. Sex jokes in general work because sex is a taboo topic, not because you're necessarily so ashamed of everything you've done that you wouldn't confess it to a friend or boast about it among the guys. And things that are shameful if the general public knows about them (Fritz and Heinrich being gay in Voltaire's pamphlet) aren't necessarily things that didn't come out in private (Fritz and Heinrich being open-secret gay among friends).
And as for Fritz accusing Marwitz of having an STD, it works as a taunt because he's trying to drive Marwitz and Heinrich apart as sexual partners, by accusing Marwitz of having been unfaithful and deceitful, which I think has no bearing on whether Algarotti would have confided in (not necessarily boasted to) Fritz about the effects of going to the brothels, or rumor would have reached Fritz indirectly. Maybe Algarotti's sex life is something he and Fritz talk openly about and write orgasm poems about, though they don't actively have sex. I think it's quite possible they had a flirtatious, sexually-charged, non-fluid-exchanging relationship, whether because of Fritz's sex drive or Algarotti's STD or both.
Btw, I don't consider your plausible putains hypothesis a Debbie Downer scenario; I've personally headcanoned Fritz with a low sex drive since 1999, and am only trying to be open to new evidence. ;) He may have had a normal sex drive and only avoided having sex with Algarotti because infections; that is a third possibility.
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
Well, Ludwig v. Wreech would have been in charge of paying the doctor(s) for both Kaphengst's and the actor(s) from Heinrich's troupe treatments. This said, I take your point about how the grapevine works.
I think it's quite possible they had a flirtatious, sexually-charged, non-fluid-exchanging relationship, whether because of Fritz's sex drive or Algarotti's STD or both.
Having read some of those early "my swan" letters, definitely sexually charged. Incidentally, wasn't Algarotti supposed to console Lord Hervey in 1739? To say nothing of the pining Lady Mary? One has to wonder why he never tried "I have an STD" to put her off? (Perhaps he knew she'd still go "we can have a beautiful meeting of the minds anyway"?)
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
The swan letters and the orgasm poem!
Incidentally, wasn't Algarotti supposed to console Lord Hervey in 1739?
Early 1739. There was still time for him to pick up an STD in the 6 months between Hervey in London and Fritz in Rheinsberg, when he hit Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Danzig, Dresden (probably a good place to pick up an STD), and Leipzig. (Possibly Berlin and Potsdam, I'd have to check whether that was before or after Rheinsberg.)
One has to wonder why he never tried "I have an STD" to put her off?
Maybe he did and what we see are the results? (I knew someone who once told someone who wanted to make out with him that he had mono. Her response? "I don't mind!" His response: *backing away slowly*)
Not that I suspect Lady Mary of wanting to have sex with an STD-riddled Algarotti, but maybe what we're seeing is her desire to have a beautiful meeting of the minds anyway. Or, maybe it didn't occur to him until he actually had one, by which time she was on her way to Italy already.
ETA: Well, Ludwig v. Wreech would have been in charge of paying the doctor(s) for both Kaphengst's and the actor(s) from Heinrich's troupe treatments.
In Rheinsberg, your past self actually recorded the exact transmission to Lehndorff:
After a few days, I receive a letter from Buchholtz, the esteemed secretary of Prince Heinrich and without a doubt the most diligent of his servants. He tells me that the prince has travelled to Braunschweig with Herr v. Knyphausen, but has left Kaphengst behind, since the later has been stopped from travelling by a strong outbreak of the French sickness which he has picked up from German and French drama players.
I wonder if Fritz was paying for Algarotti's doctor?
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
Because I might misremember, but I think Darget's reaction to him getting a starring role in the Palladion was at the very least mixed. With the caveat that I only read the old online translation, not the new one, I've seen reviewers of the new Palladion translation say it has sexually charged descriptions of Darget in it and go on about the homosexual gaze of it all. Even the defanged translation from Team Volz which is online (and does not have gay sex, both of the enforced and the voluntary type) does go on about what a handsome fellow he was. And Darget - who if the anecdote of his and D'Argens' rivalry which included D'Argens interfering in Darget's affair with a (female) ballet dancer (not the one D'Argens himself ended up with) that's up at Trier is anything to go by was at the very least bi, if not more het enclined - went eventually back to France Though maybe I'm misremembering and he just quit Fritz' service because Fritz was exhausting as a human being. But him and Heinrich remained close pen pals after Darget left Berlin, which btw makes Catt really the outlier among Fritz' readers since Heinrich also got alone fine with (pre treason) Abbé de Prades, and with Thiebault. Whereas I don't think Darget and Fritz remained in contact.
Now Algarotti, at the time world renowned intellectual and traveller, was a far more independent party than Darget, former secretary of the French envoy, so I'm assuming that Fritz writing the orgasm poem was just part of how they talked to and about each other at the time (i.e. sexually charged banter), that they both enjoyed it and that Algarotti might even have initialized it. But otoh, sexually charged poetry by itself is not necessarily a signal that the recipient/object of same is happy about it and fine with it. (Unless I'm misremembering about Darget.)
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
You must know that his Majesty, in his after-dinner stories, has insinuated a number of little things about his secretary, Darget, at which the secretary is horrified. He makes him play a very odd role in his poem, the Palladium: and the poem is in print. It is true, there are very few copies to be had.
What shall I say? That there is no need to be inconsolable if the great love the nobodies though they laugh at them? But suppose they laugh at them and do not love them--what then? We must laugh in our turn, in our sleeves, and leave them not the less. I must have a little time to remove the money I have invested in the funds here. I shall devote this time to work and patience: and the rest of my life to you.
I also remember us talking about this before, about how Darget was *not* happy about his poem, but Algarotti seems to have been. At least he stayed on good terms with Fritz afterward, as far as I can tell.
Now, Voltaire may not be the most reliable of sources when it comes to trashing Fritz, but I totally buy that Darget wasn't happy. Writing about how you had great sex with a woman (at least nominally) is not the same thing as writing about how you got repeatedly raped by men and/or had close calls with the same.
And Algarotti was regaling Fritz with bawdy songs and poems (admittedly not about Fritz) during that same trip on which the orgasm poem got written. Pending further evidence, I think they just sexually bantered a lot. This might actually have contributed to emotionally tone-deaf Fritz thinking that Darget would be perfectly happy with a royal poem about his imaginary sex life! After all, Algarotti was happy with his! Darn ungrateful readers.
(Aren't you glad you're a royal reader of the 21st century and not at Fritz's court?)
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
We can add Catt getting Fritz "generously" playing Cyrano for him, and Lucchesini getting regaled by Fritz reading the entire Palladion to him, and the poetry written for Catt. (Luccesini probably decided to never ever tell Fritz about a single affair of his right then and there.)
And yes, I'm so glad I'm nowhere near Fritz' court. For any number of reasons.
Forgot to add above, re: Lehndorff - right, so he heard it from Heinrich's secretary. I probably subconsciously substituted Ludwig Wreech in my memory because Lehndorff got on very well with him. Mind you, now I'm imagining at least some of Heinrich's staff keeping Lehndorff updated on Heinrich and his circle because they low key ship Lehndorff/Heinrich and/or figure he's a safe ear to vent their frustration with the favourite du jour to.
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
Seems advisable.
Mind you, now I'm imagining at least some of Heinrich's staff keeping Lehndorff updated on Heinrich and his circle because they low key ship Lehndorff/Heinrich
Ha! Now I'm imagining this as
Re: Algarotti's STD and Fritz's sexuality
Mind you, now I'm imagining at least some of Heinrich's staff keeping Lehndorff updated on Heinrich and his circle because they low key ship Lehndorff/Heinrich and/or figure he's a safe ear to vent their frustration with the favourite du jour to.