This is of interest probably only to me, but I though I would post my fic research findings here, since one of them was so hard to dig up, and one was an unexpected finding.
The Man Also spelled Rottembourg (in French), or Rothembourg, or some combination thereof. Sigh. Still not as bad as Lövenörn in terms of name spellings.
French envoy to Berlin off and on during the 1710s and 1720s. Very cultured. BFFs with Katte. Hated FW. Was petitioning Versailles for his recall as early as 1719. According to one of my sources, he claimed it was the climate in 1719, but I'm betting he also just didn't like the court. :P Tried to support a coup in Prussia to have FW declared insane and Fritz put on the throne. He and 14-yo Fritz used to pass information to each other via an intermediary, while pretending to have no interest in each other.
Successfully got recalled in 1727. It was supposed to be to take care of his domestic affairs, and he was supposed to go back as soon as possible. Sauveterre, his secretary, was left behind. (This explains my confusion over why there was no French envoy to replace him and yet Sauveterre was there, and also possibly explains why Sauveterre is apparently dependent on Dickens for his info in November 1730, and why my sources say Sauveterre was kind of lackadaisical.)
However, Rothenburg then got sent on a mission to Spain in 1727-1728, which then turned into a more permanent station, when he was sent back in 1730. He helped negotiate the Family Compact between the Bourbon monarchs of France and Spain (1733). He was recalled to Paris on May 25, 1734 because of bad health. He died in April 1735 childless, very rich, and either never married or married to Jeanne-Madelene d'Helmstat on April 10, 1721 (depending on who you believe). He's the subject of my extremely specific question about legal inheritance on little_details.
His father was from Brandenburg, and he was made a field marshal by Louis XIV.
The Estates When Fritz made his escape attempt and was trying to hide the fact that he had been having dealings with the English, he confessed "that he was planning to flee to Strasbourg (where he seemed to have his eyes on a stay on the Alsatian estate of the French envoy, comte Rothenbourg)." Quote MacDonogh. I've also seen other sources state that Katte had suggested Rothenburg's estate as a safe haven, and that this was one of the pieces of evidence used to convict of Katte of being up to his ears in this plot and helping advance it further than it would have without him.
Being me, I've been wanting and wanting to track down this estate, just like I did with Peter Keith's.
Well, I finally turned it up, and one reason it took so long is that it's not nearly as close to Strasbourg as that sentence had led me to believe. Comte Rothenburg/Rottembourg (however you want to spell his name) was feudal lord of the seigneury of Masevaux, 120 km south and east of Strasbourg in Alsace, and about 40 km from the modern French border.
It also gets a bit more complicated than this. Rothenburg was descended from Conrad de Rosen, who was a field marshal and a member of a prominent family. Conrad bought this property from the Fuggers (famous German banking family), then sold it in 1684 to his son-in-law, who was our Comte Rothenburg's father.
Conrad meanwhile hung on to the Dettwiller, Herrenstein, and Bollwiller estates, though Bollwiller had been pawned to the Fuggers by his father-in-law, and Conrad had to pay that debt. These estates were passed down the Rosen line.
Comte Rothenburg, during his lifetime, acquired the nearby estate of Rougemont. I also see some other estates, of which I do not know the history, listed as belonging to him at the time of his death: Keivenheim, Seintein, and Oberbruck. On his death, his estates went to one of his sisters.
Now, I had thought both his sisters were childless, but it turns out not, because sister had a daughter. Daughter inherited the Rothenburg estates, and married the Rosen heir of Conrad's estates. Thus the Rosen family became one of the largest landowners in Alsace.
Here are Bollwiller, Masevaux, and Rougemont situated on the map in relation to each other and Strasbourg. I hadn't yet found the other estates when I took this snapshot, but Oberbruck is just northeast of Masevaux, so that checks out. Keivenheim looks like a German name, and the only thing I can find remotely similar, Kaifenheim, is near Bonn. And Seintein is right on the Spanish border.
Parts of the original manor house in Masevaux remain standing and are protected as a historic monument. I couldn't get any good pictures because of its location and obscurity, but I've found it on the map and looked at what I can.
The Library I also ran across a cool piece of information that I wasn't looking for, namely that our Comte Rothenburg's library was assessed after his death. I thus know that it contained 156 books, most of which were in French, and, amazingly, I know the distribution of these books as well:
Now, this is only the books of value, because smaller books were not recorded, but even so, I have to say...this is not going to be enough for Fritz in my AU. That library's going to have to be expanded once he decides he's moving in permanently. :P
The Plot Speaking of which, we hash out plots for selenak fic here, so I thought we could do one for me too. I make no promises to finish it, but if my health cooperates, I'd like to, because I really really need a fix-it fic for my faves!
So far, this is what I've got.
- Fritz successfully escapes from the Zeithain camp. - Katte gets separated from him during the escape. - Keith makes it to London as in reality. - Fritz makes it to Comte Rothenburg in Alsace. - Katte has to go into hiding in Saxony while FW rampages throughout the HRE. - FW puts SD and Wilhelmine under house arrest and threatens to do worse if Fritz doesn't come back, and especially if he goes to England. - Fritz lies low at Rothenburg's for as long as he can, waiting for Katte and trying not to make things worse for Wilhelmine. - Katte manages to get out, and not knowing where Fritz is but knowing where Keith is, goes to London. - The English gov't sends Keith and Katte to Lisbon to escape FW's wrath. - Katte, BFFs with Comte Rothenburg, takes them to Madrid, where Rothenburg is French envoy to Spain. - In reality, Rothenburg was envoy there until 1734. - In this fic, I need Rothenburg to have been recalled by the time Katte gets to Madrid. - Rothenburg is hanging out with Fritz on his estate in the east of France, keeping Fritz's location a secret. - Suhm, who was kind of sort of involved in helping with the escape, and is currently retired (as per reality), goes to France as a private individual, looking for Fritz. - Katte and Keith follow Rothenburg's footsteps to Paris, then Alsace. - Eventually, everyone ends up together. (Yay) - The English and French gov'ts aren't going to extradite, but are pretty unenthusiastic about escalating the FW/Fritz conflict beyond that. - The eventual solution is that childless and extremely wealthy Comte Rothenburg adopts Fritz. - Fritz gives up his claim to the Prussian throne. - French and Austrian gov'ts okay this. - FW not happy, but now has the heir he wants, so learns to live with it.
The Unsolved Plot Points 1) I'm looking for a way for Rothenburg to have left Madrid suddenly and for Fritz's presence on his estate to be a secret for several months. The easiest solution is that by authorial fiat, his health worsens 3-4 years earlier than in real life (but he still doesn't die before 1735, because I need Fritz to have at least a few years with a surrogate father who doesn't suck).
A more satisfying solution would be for his departure to be linked with Fritz's secret arrival, but I'm having trouble making the chronology and secrecy both work. It's a long way from Alsace to Paris to Madrid and back again, and the current plot is that Rothenburg and Fritz get together relatively early on in the process. At least early enough that it's still unknown whether Katte is dead or alive, and Fritz still hasn't decided whether he's going to England or not.
Would the French gov't, after getting wind of Fritz's arrival (and possibly Fritz's stubbornness in cooperating with them), both 1) recall their envoy to Spain to deal with Fritz, whom he knows from Berlin days, and 2) keep this enough of a secret that neither Katte nor FW has any idea where Fritz is? Even if so, Fritz is going to be alone on the estate for a long time while the message travels west and then Rottembourg comes back east.
Or what is the best way to get Fritz and Rothenburg together secretly, so that there's still time for all the other developments, namely Katte and Keith to wander around Europe looking for them, and Fritz to decide how much he trusts Rothenburg in a pinch.
Is it plausible to keep Fritz's location a secret for so long?
2) Wilhelmine! She's the last remaining character in desperate need of a fix-it in this fic! I want all the young people to do an Italy tour together, paid for by Comte Rothenburg, sometime in the 1730s.
How do we get her away from FW and over to safety with Fritz?
The easiest way is that FW hasn't heard a peep from Fritz, so he starts marrying Wilhelmine off to a German prince, and she ends up in Bayreuth, maybe a year or two earlier because events move faster. Presumably not-hearing-a-peep probably means she thinks Fritz is dead, until she's in Bayreuth and can get a surprise messenger from Alsace. And then Fritz goes public with the renunciation and adoption plan.
But if Fritz gets a happily ever after with a surrogate father and three boyfriends, part of me wants Wilhelmine to join them. Unfettered. (Sonsine can come.) It seems more fun. And I think they'd like it better.
But I'm stumped on how to get her away from the furious terrier that is FW.
Halp!
3) How plausible is it both that Fritz can lie low and keep his whereabouts secret for so long without close friends, and that he considers this the best way to protect Wilhelmine and SD? I'm taking into account that the fact that Fritz told page Keith that once he got away, he was never coming back to Prussia, and the fact that he told Dickens that his reason for going to France instead of straight to England was to protect SD. I'm not entirely sure that he was wedded to the English marriage of his own accord, and once he got away from FW, he might not have felt the need to go the whole "marry Amalie, become governor of Hanover, make Mom happy, piss Dad off" route, *especially* if the English are loudly proclaiming after his disappearance that they don't want him (read: international conflict with Prussia).
My Fritz isn't immediately planning to stay in France forever. The adoption plan only develops (and isn't proposed by him) after he's been there quite some time, all his friends are there, and he's pretty happy with his new life. Even then, he's extremely reluctant to burn his Prussian bridges forever--there are major downsides to France as a political entity, and he identifies more as a Prussian than he realizes until after he's left. But a visit of a few months at the beginning of his escape is within the scope of his plans. Rothenburg can get his material needs met until Suhm, Katte, and Keith (and eventually Wilhelmine) show up, but what I wonder about is Fritz's ability to keep quiet until they do. This is why it's easier if Rothenburg shows up sooner rather than later in the process--it makes it easier for Fritz to stay hidden for several months if he's got at least one person he knows, who comes with a strong recommendation from Katte, and who's making a concerted effort to bond with him.
None of this is set in stone, and I'm trying to figure out the most politically and psychologically plausible way for this to play out.
4) Any tips on actions FW is likely to take are welcome.
Doesn't say anything about which part of the border it was on. The Alsace, i.e. das Elsass, was dominantly German-lingual, and even today most villages and downs have double French and German street signs. (This is was true for the Saarland - today in Germany, but like the Elsass going back and thro between Germany and France throughout history - as well. Where none other than Napoleon's Marshal Ney hailed from, which is why he when being on campaign in Bavaria could talk German to everyone.)
Trufax: St. Just, radical French Revolutionary, sidekick to Robespierre, took the time for an order to the women of Strassbourg that forbade them to wear German style dresses anymore "because you know you are Frenchwomen in your hearts".
Now, as to your questions:
1.) Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue! Franz Stephan's dad dies in the march of 1729, whereupon Franzl returns home to Lorraine from Vienna (where he's already hanging out and romancing MT). He doesn't go on the Grand Tour until 1731. Now, Lorraine is important to the French. They want it. They also really really REALLY do not want the Austrians to have it if FS/MT should become a thing, because remember, still arch enemies at this point. This is why a "we'll acknowledge the Pragmatic Sanction if you give us Lorraine" is eventually made. Why not say that Rothembourg, who is from Alsace, thus next door to Lorraine, and presumably knows influential people there (including FS' Mom the daughter of Liselotte and Philippe d'Orleans) needs to give his expertise on how this situation might be solved? He's gotten along so well with young Fritz, maybe France wants to sic him on young Franzl to hash something out that's not the HRE/Austrians getting Lorraine in the event of a FS/MT marriage? Thus Rothenbourg is recalled and can be home when Fritz comes calling.
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back. As soon as she's married, she's out of his control, after all. So it would be prison time for her. I see two possibilities:
a.) We go for a swashbuckling solution. Wilhelmine is indeed kept prisoner in some castle/fortress, but someone sacrifices themselves to switch places with her so she can escape. This is all organized by the Brits because Dickens likes her a lot, and he's smuggling her across the border.
b.) FW gets the (fake) news that Fritz is dead. That's when he decides to marry Wilhelmine off in haste because her presence is one long accusation and also he feels guilty. Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Either way, though, we'd need some courageous helpers. It's too early for the Chevalier d'Eon, alas!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
Daughter of ETA: 3) How plausible is it both that Fritz can lie low and keep his whereabouts secret for so long without close friends, and that he considers this the best way to protect Wilhelmine and SD?
Not very if he's truly on his own, which is why I can see that you want Rothembourg there. You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times? Then he's another person and a long time friend who can keep Fritz company. Keyserlingk in this scenario would not have known Fritz was there but would have guessed this was a possible address, based on his knowledge of Fritz.
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too. According to Dickens, FW had threatened to give her the Doris Ritter treatment of publish whipping and the workhouse for whores if Wilhelmine didn't agree to the marriage.
1.) Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue!
I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES! Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here. Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon, selenak! <3
(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example? Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example?
Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
Either works for me! Since it's a fix-it-for-everyone fic, maybe the latter. :P He and AW can hang out and be chill together, and he ends up as advisor to his beloved older brother.
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Ooh, I like it! No kids of teachable age until the latter part of the 1730s, and I don't think she and Voltaire start renovating Cirey until the mid 1730s, but depending on how far in the future this fic goes (and it has to go at least to a Grand Tour in the 1730s), we could end up seeing a visit to or from Cirey. And I have actually been thinking of looking for a more long-term position for Duhan.
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her go to be with her first love)
Aww! I may steal that. You have the best scenes. We'll see how the Pannewitz plot develops. It *would* be nice to have BF as nice guy supporting her, definitely. Especially since the average fic reader won't have read W's memoirs--oh, who am I kidding. All two fic readers will have read W's memoirs. :P
I shall accept the gracious gift, then! (Depending on how the final draft plays out, of course, but the current plotline is developing around ways to use it.)
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
This is all GREAT, but this is the part where I actually cheered. Pannewitz for the win, again!!
Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue!
Your Lorraine idea has just helped me out with another plot point! Now, my plots for long fic (and this is shaping up to be one) tend to go through about 20 iterations, so no promises this will make it into the final product (if there is one, anything fic-related is a huge battle right now), but figuring things out is the best part of writing for me, so discussing plots is almost as much fun as writing them. :D
Anyway, I'm leaning toward: - Wilhelmine goes to Bayreuth fully intending to get married, - Once there, she finds out Fritz is alive and in Alsace, - Bayreuth Friedrich lets her off the hook using cahn's wonderful scene.
So someone has to get word to her that Fritz is alive, but this is an extremely well-kept secret with which very few people are entrusted, and is not something they want to put in writing, because the consequences if FW finds out are still horrendous, and they're still within reach of him and people who might feel obliged to extradite to him.
I've been wanting Peter Keith to have his moment of glory by bravely riding back into the HRE to let Wilhelmine know about Fritz and help her escape to France, even with a price on Keith's head and FW trying to get him captured and/or extradited all over Europe, but since Keith is the single least sensible person to go for this reason, I have to come up with some kind of scenario where he's the only one who *can* go, at least without letting anyone else in on the secret, which they're trying to avoid.
Lorraine is perfectly geographically situated for this, if we go with the following: - Fritz, Suhm, and Duhan are hanging out in Masevaux, reading books and waiting for FW to cool off. - Fritz gets help faking his death to get FW to let Wilhelmine get married. - Katte and Keith are in Paris, looking for Fritz. - Rottembourg has to go to Lorraine to do the diplomatic work for which he was recalled. Now that Suhm is in Masevaux, R's not needed at home every day to keep Fritz from going crazy in isolation, *but* he's still in the vicinity in case he's needed. - Katte and Keith go to Lorraine to meet up with Rottembourg and ask him about that "Fritz is dead" news report. - Rottembourg tells them Fritz is alive and in Alsace. - Word reaches France that Wilhelmine has left Berlin and is on her way to Bayreuth to get married. - Katte and Keith want to let her know before she marries some stranger who might be horrible to her, and give her the option of joining her brother instead. Or, as cahn put it, to be with her first love. :P - Rottembourg can't go, because he's on diplomatic assignment. - Katte knows Fritz will *kill* him if he risks his life riding back into the HRE without even seeing Fritz. (At this point, they've been separated for the better part of a year, and Fritz thinks Katte is dead, because Katte's been keeping his head low while looking for Fritz, since FW is still after said head.) - Every day counts, because once W says her vows, everything changes. - No time for Keith to go with Katte down to Alsace and ask Suhm (the obvious choice) to go or Fritz to give permission to let someone else in on the secret.
All of which leads to: go, Keith, go!
And Metz, capital of Lorraine, is on the way from Paris to Bayreuth, and Masevaux is far enough south that a detour might well make the difference between Wilhelmine being married and being unmarried when the secret messenger shows up. Here, look, it's beautiful:
So Keith and Katte will temporarily part ways at Metz, while Keith rides east and Katte rides south. (This fandom is teaching me so much geography, lol. :P)
Then Bayreuth Friedrich gets entrusted with the secret and releases her from the engagement, but FW's spies/minions are still keeping a close eye on Wilhelmine, plus BF's dad Margrave wants the dowry, so if she suddenly announces the marriage is off and she's leaving Bayreuth going to France...that's not gonna fly. So our heroine Pannewitz still gets to have her own clothes-swapping moment of glory with a big "In your face, FW!"
A big continuing thanks for all the plotting help, guys! <3 And the sounding board. If I can't write this, I love being able to share it with people anyway.
You're more than welcome, and all of this sounds delightful. I've thought of something else helping Fritz to ly low, and Wilhelmine first with the brother grief before she learns he's alive, and also with trusting Bayreuth Friedrich enough to ask him to release her and tell him the truth. They're both getting dogs, of course. Fritz gets one from French Rottembourg instead of Prussian Rothenburg, while Wilhelmine got one from BF as an engagement present. Since it all happened so quickly, the usual round of present exchanges couldn't happen, plus his dad is after FW's money anyway, but the one thing BF knew about Wilhelmine ahead of time was that she'd lost her brother and her father had temporarily locked her up like his mother is (still at this point) locked up, so he gives her what he got back in the day as comfort, and which is easy to come by as a prince on short notice - a puppy. How about it?
Well, you know how I feel about dogs :D, and I had in fact considered giving Fritz one. The problem I ran into was: Fritz, lying low at the manor house in Masevaux with servants running around, is trying to keep to one room or at best suite of rooms, with minimal to no interactions with R's servants. This was based on the description I read of Voltaire lying low at a wealthy friend's house in the west of France, where he was locked up in a single room with nothing to do but write, curtains always closed, a single trusted bodyservant (who was bored out of his mind), and rare, secret visits from the lady of the house. So hard to see a puppy in that environment.
But! A puppy for Wilhelmine from BF would be perfect, and just the thing to help earn her trust. It will also help if he's already offered to let her off the hook, just because he learned that the King pushed her into this and the Queen hates her for it. But the dog will be extra bonus points when it comes time to confess that yes, actually, she *does* want to take him up on that out.
And then Fritz, who's been complaining that he badly needs a dog, gets to share Wilhelmine's puppy when she shows up.
Ha. Wilhelmine: It was an engagement gift from my fiancé, but now it's ours. Brother. Everybody else: No comment. Katte: I tried to be the original sibling collector, but the siblings I picked were too busy collecting each other. :P
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Count Rothenburg (the French one)
The Man
Also spelled Rottembourg (in French), or Rothembourg, or some combination thereof. Sigh. Still not as bad as Lövenörn in terms of name spellings.
French envoy to Berlin off and on during the 1710s and 1720s. Very cultured. BFFs with Katte. Hated FW. Was petitioning Versailles for his recall as early as 1719. According to one of my sources, he claimed it was the climate in 1719, but I'm betting he also just didn't like the court. :P Tried to support a coup in Prussia to have FW declared insane and Fritz put on the throne. He and 14-yo Fritz used to pass information to each other via an intermediary, while pretending to have no interest in each other.
Successfully got recalled in 1727. It was supposed to be to take care of his domestic affairs, and he was supposed to go back as soon as possible. Sauveterre, his secretary, was left behind. (This explains my confusion over why there was no French envoy to replace him and yet Sauveterre was there, and also possibly explains why Sauveterre is apparently dependent on Dickens for his info in November 1730, and why my sources say Sauveterre was kind of lackadaisical.)
However, Rothenburg then got sent on a mission to Spain in 1727-1728, which then turned into a more permanent station, when he was sent back in 1730. He helped negotiate the Family Compact between the Bourbon monarchs of France and Spain (1733). He was recalled to Paris on May 25, 1734 because of bad health. He died in April 1735 childless, very rich, and either never married or married to Jeanne-Madelene d'Helmstat on April 10, 1721 (depending on who you believe). He's the subject of my extremely specific question about legal inheritance on little_details.
His father was from Brandenburg, and he was made a field marshal by Louis XIV.
The Estates
When Fritz made his escape attempt and was trying to hide the fact that he had been having dealings with the English, he confessed "that he was planning to flee to Strasbourg (where he seemed to have his eyes on a stay on the Alsatian estate of the French envoy, comte Rothenbourg)." Quote MacDonogh. I've also seen other sources state that Katte had suggested Rothenburg's estate as a safe haven, and that this was one of the pieces of evidence used to convict of Katte of being up to his ears in this plot and helping advance it further than it would have without him.
Being me, I've been wanting and wanting to track down this estate, just like I did with Peter Keith's.
Well, I finally turned it up, and one reason it took so long is that it's not nearly as close to Strasbourg as that sentence had led me to believe. Comte Rothenburg/Rottembourg (however you want to spell his name) was feudal lord of the seigneury of Masevaux, 120 km south and east of Strasbourg in Alsace, and about 40 km from the modern French border.
It also gets a bit more complicated than this. Rothenburg was descended from Conrad de Rosen, who was a field marshal and a member of a prominent family. Conrad bought this property from the Fuggers (famous German banking family), then sold it in 1684 to his son-in-law, who was our Comte Rothenburg's father.
Conrad meanwhile hung on to the Dettwiller, Herrenstein, and Bollwiller estates, though Bollwiller had been pawned to the Fuggers by his father-in-law, and Conrad had to pay that debt. These estates were passed down the Rosen line.
Comte Rothenburg, during his lifetime, acquired the nearby estate of Rougemont. I also see some other estates, of which I do not know the history, listed as belonging to him at the time of his death: Keivenheim, Seintein, and Oberbruck. On his death, his estates went to one of his sisters.
Now, I had thought both his sisters were childless, but it turns out not, because sister had a daughter. Daughter inherited the Rothenburg estates, and married the Rosen heir of Conrad's estates. Thus the Rosen family became one of the largest landowners in Alsace.
Here are Bollwiller, Masevaux, and Rougemont situated on the map in relation to each other and Strasbourg. I hadn't yet found the other estates when I took this snapshot, but Oberbruck is just northeast of Masevaux, so that checks out. Keivenheim looks like a German name, and the only thing I can find remotely similar, Kaifenheim, is near Bonn. And Seintein is right on the Spanish border.
Parts of the original manor house in Masevaux remain standing and are protected as a historic monument. I couldn't get any good pictures because of its location and obscurity, but I've found it on the map and looked at what I can.
The Library
I also ran across a cool piece of information that I wasn't looking for, namely that our Comte Rothenburg's library was assessed after his death. I thus know that it contained 156 books, most of which were in French, and, amazingly, I know the distribution of these books as well:
Religion: 5%
Law: 8%
History: 22%
Belles-lettres: 43%
Sciences & arts: 13%
Various: 9%
Now, this is only the books of value, because smaller books were not recorded, but even so, I have to say...this is not going to be enough for Fritz in my AU. That library's going to have to be expanded once he decides he's moving in permanently. :P
The Plot
Speaking of which, we hash out plots for
So far, this is what I've got.
- Fritz successfully escapes from the Zeithain camp.
- Katte gets separated from him during the escape.
- Keith makes it to London as in reality.
- Fritz makes it to Comte Rothenburg in Alsace.
- Katte has to go into hiding in Saxony while FW rampages throughout the HRE.
- FW puts SD and Wilhelmine under house arrest and threatens to do worse if Fritz doesn't come back, and especially if he goes to England.
- Fritz lies low at Rothenburg's for as long as he can, waiting for Katte and trying not to make things worse for Wilhelmine.
- Katte manages to get out, and not knowing where Fritz is but knowing where Keith is, goes to London.
- The English gov't sends Keith and Katte to Lisbon to escape FW's wrath.
- Katte, BFFs with Comte Rothenburg, takes them to Madrid, where Rothenburg is French envoy to Spain.
- In reality, Rothenburg was envoy there until 1734.
- In this fic, I need Rothenburg to have been recalled by the time Katte gets to Madrid.
- Rothenburg is hanging out with Fritz on his estate in the east of France, keeping Fritz's location a secret.
- Suhm, who was kind of sort of involved in helping with the escape, and is currently retired (as per reality), goes to France as a private individual, looking for Fritz.
- Katte and Keith follow Rothenburg's footsteps to Paris, then Alsace.
- Eventually, everyone ends up together. (Yay)
- The English and French gov'ts aren't going to extradite, but are pretty unenthusiastic about escalating the FW/Fritz conflict beyond that.
- The eventual solution is that childless and extremely wealthy Comte Rothenburg adopts Fritz.
- Fritz gives up his claim to the Prussian throne.
- French and Austrian gov'ts okay this.
- FW not happy, but now has the heir he wants, so learns to live with it.
The Unsolved Plot Points
1) I'm looking for a way for Rothenburg to have left Madrid suddenly and for Fritz's presence on his estate to be a secret for several months. The easiest solution is that by authorial fiat, his health worsens 3-4 years earlier than in real life (but he still doesn't die before 1735, because I need Fritz to have at least a few years with a surrogate father who doesn't suck).
A more satisfying solution would be for his departure to be linked with Fritz's secret arrival, but I'm having trouble making the chronology and secrecy both work. It's a long way from Alsace to Paris to Madrid and back again, and the current plot is that Rothenburg and Fritz get together relatively early on in the process. At least early enough that it's still unknown whether Katte is dead or alive, and Fritz still hasn't decided whether he's going to England or not.
Would the French gov't, after getting wind of Fritz's arrival (and possibly Fritz's stubbornness in cooperating with them), both 1) recall their envoy to Spain to deal with Fritz, whom he knows from Berlin days, and 2) keep this enough of a secret that neither Katte nor FW has any idea where Fritz is? Even if so, Fritz is going to be alone on the estate for a long time while the message travels west and then Rottembourg comes back east.
Or what is the best way to get Fritz and Rothenburg together secretly, so that there's still time for all the other developments, namely Katte and Keith to wander around Europe looking for them, and Fritz to decide how much he trusts Rothenburg in a pinch.
Is it plausible to keep Fritz's location a secret for so long?
2) Wilhelmine! She's the last remaining character in desperate need of a fix-it in this fic! I want all the young people to do an Italy tour together, paid for by Comte Rothenburg, sometime in the 1730s.
How do we get her away from FW and over to safety with Fritz?
The easiest way is that FW hasn't heard a peep from Fritz, so he starts marrying Wilhelmine off to a German prince, and she ends up in Bayreuth, maybe a year or two earlier because events move faster. Presumably not-hearing-a-peep probably means she thinks Fritz is dead, until she's in Bayreuth and can get a surprise messenger from Alsace. And then Fritz goes public with the renunciation and adoption plan.
But if Fritz gets a happily ever after with a surrogate father and three boyfriends, part of me wants Wilhelmine to join them. Unfettered. (Sonsine can come.) It seems more fun. And I think they'd like it better.
But I'm stumped on how to get her away from the furious terrier that is FW.
Halp!
3) How plausible is it both that Fritz can lie low and keep his whereabouts secret for so long without close friends, and that he considers this the best way to protect Wilhelmine and SD? I'm taking into account that the fact that Fritz told page Keith that once he got away, he was never coming back to Prussia, and the fact that he told Dickens that his reason for going to France instead of straight to England was to protect SD. I'm not entirely sure that he was wedded to the English marriage of his own accord, and once he got away from FW, he might not have felt the need to go the whole "marry Amalie, become governor of Hanover, make Mom happy, piss Dad off" route, *especially* if the English are loudly proclaiming after his disappearance that they don't want him (read: international conflict with Prussia).
My Fritz isn't immediately planning to stay in France forever. The adoption plan only develops (and isn't proposed by him) after he's been there quite some time, all his friends are there, and he's pretty happy with his new life. Even then, he's extremely reluctant to burn his Prussian bridges forever--there are major downsides to France as a political entity, and he identifies more as a Prussian than he realizes until after he's left. But a visit of a few months at the beginning of his escape is within the scope of his plans. Rothenburg can get his material needs met until Suhm, Katte, and Keith (and eventually Wilhelmine) show up, but what I wonder about is Fritz's ability to keep quiet until they do. This is why it's easier if Rothenburg shows up sooner rather than later in the process--it makes it easier for Fritz to stay hidden for several months if he's got at least one person he knows, who comes with a strong recommendation from Katte, and who's making a concerted effort to bond with him.
None of this is set in stone, and I'm trying to figure out the most politically and psychologically plausible way for this to play out.
4) Any tips on actions FW is likely to take are welcome.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Doesn't say anything about which part of the border it was on. The Alsace, i.e. das Elsass, was dominantly German-lingual, and even today most villages and downs have double French and German street signs. (This is was true for the Saarland - today in Germany, but like the Elsass going back and thro between Germany and France throughout history - as well. Where none other than Napoleon's Marshal Ney hailed from, which is why he when being on campaign in Bavaria could talk German to everyone.)
Trufax: St. Just, radical French Revolutionary, sidekick to Robespierre, took the time for an order to the women of Strassbourg that forbade them to wear German style dresses anymore "because you know you are Frenchwomen in your hearts".
Now, as to your questions:
1.) Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue! Franz Stephan's dad dies in the march of 1729, whereupon Franzl returns home to Lorraine from Vienna (where he's already hanging out and romancing MT). He doesn't go on the Grand Tour until 1731. Now, Lorraine is important to the French. They want it. They also really really REALLY do not want the Austrians to have it if FS/MT should become a thing, because remember, still arch enemies at this point. This is why a "we'll acknowledge the Pragmatic Sanction if you give us Lorraine" is eventually made. Why not say that Rothembourg, who is from Alsace, thus next door to Lorraine, and presumably knows influential people there (including FS' Mom the daughter of Liselotte and Philippe d'Orleans) needs to give his expertise on how this situation might be solved? He's gotten along so well with young Fritz, maybe France wants to sic him on young Franzl to hash something out that's not the HRE/Austrians getting Lorraine in the event of a FS/MT marriage? Thus Rothenbourg is recalled and can be home when Fritz comes calling.
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back. As soon as she's married, she's out of his control, after all. So it would be prison time for her. I see two possibilities:
a.) We go for a swashbuckling solution. Wilhelmine is indeed kept prisoner in some castle/fortress, but someone sacrifices themselves to switch places with her so she can escape. This is all organized by the Brits because Dickens likes her a lot, and he's smuggling her across the border.
b.) FW gets the (fake) news that Fritz is dead. That's when he decides to marry Wilhelmine off in haste because her presence is one long accusation and also he feels guilty. Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Either way, though, we'd need some courageous helpers. It's too early for the Chevalier d'Eon, alas!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
Daughter of ETA: 3) How plausible is it both that Fritz can lie low and keep his whereabouts secret for so long without close friends, and that he considers this the best way to protect Wilhelmine and SD?
Not very if he's truly on his own, which is why I can see that you want Rothembourg there. You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times? Then he's another person and a long time friend who can keep Fritz company. Keyserlingk in this scenario would not have known Fritz was there but would have guessed this was a possible address, based on his knowledge of Fritz.
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too. According to Dickens, FW had threatened to give her the Doris Ritter treatment of publish whipping and the workhouse for whores if Wilhelmine didn't agree to the marriage.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Wilhelmine: Not me!
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here.
Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon,
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example?
Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
Either works for me! Since it's a fix-it-for-everyone fic, maybe the latter. :P He and AW can hang out and be chill together, and he ends up as advisor to his beloved older brother.
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Ooh, I like it! No kids of teachable age until the latter part of the 1730s, and I don't think she and Voltaire start renovating Cirey until the mid 1730s, but depending on how far in the future this fic goes (and it has to go at least to a Grand Tour in the 1730s), we could end up seeing a visit to or from Cirey. And I have actually been thinking of looking for a more long-term position for Duhan.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her go
to be with her first love)Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
I shall accept the gracious gift, then! (Depending on how the final draft plays out, of course, but the current plotline is developing around ways to use it.)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
This is all GREAT, but this is the part where I actually cheered. Pannewitz for the win, again!!
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Your Lorraine idea has just helped me out with another plot point! Now, my plots for long fic (and this is shaping up to be one) tend to go through about 20 iterations, so no promises this will make it into the final product (if there is one, anything fic-related is a huge battle right now), but figuring things out is the best part of writing for me, so discussing plots is almost as much fun as writing them. :D
Anyway, I'm leaning toward:
- Wilhelmine goes to Bayreuth fully intending to get married,
- Once there, she finds out Fritz is alive and in Alsace,
- Bayreuth Friedrich lets her off the hook using
So someone has to get word to her that Fritz is alive, but this is an extremely well-kept secret with which very few people are entrusted, and is not something they want to put in writing, because the consequences if FW finds out are still horrendous, and they're still within reach of him and people who might feel obliged to extradite to him.
I've been wanting Peter Keith to have his moment of glory by bravely riding back into the HRE to let Wilhelmine know about Fritz and help her escape to France, even with a price on Keith's head and FW trying to get him captured and/or extradited all over Europe, but since Keith is the single least sensible person to go for this reason, I have to come up with some kind of scenario where he's the only one who *can* go, at least without letting anyone else in on the secret, which they're trying to avoid.
Lorraine is perfectly geographically situated for this, if we go with the following:
- Fritz, Suhm, and Duhan are hanging out in Masevaux, reading books and waiting for FW to cool off.
- Fritz gets help faking his death to get FW to let Wilhelmine get married.
- Katte and Keith are in Paris, looking for Fritz.
- Rottembourg has to go to Lorraine to do the diplomatic work for which he was recalled. Now that Suhm is in Masevaux, R's not needed at home every day to keep Fritz from going crazy in isolation, *but* he's still in the vicinity in case he's needed.
- Katte and Keith go to Lorraine to meet up with Rottembourg and ask him about that "Fritz is dead" news report.
- Rottembourg tells them Fritz is alive and in Alsace.
- Word reaches France that Wilhelmine has left Berlin and is on her way to Bayreuth to get married.
- Katte and Keith want to let her know before she marries some stranger who might be horrible to her, and give her the option of joining her brother instead. Or, as
- Rottembourg can't go, because he's on diplomatic assignment.
- Katte knows Fritz will *kill* him if he risks his life riding back into the HRE without even seeing Fritz. (At this point, they've been separated for the better part of a year, and Fritz thinks Katte is dead, because Katte's been keeping his head low while looking for Fritz, since FW is still after said head.)
- Every day counts, because once W says her vows, everything changes.
- No time for Keith to go with Katte down to Alsace and ask Suhm (the obvious choice) to go or Fritz to give permission to let someone else in on the secret.
All of which leads to: go, Keith, go!
And Metz, capital of Lorraine, is on the way from Paris to Bayreuth, and Masevaux is far enough south that a detour might well make the difference between Wilhelmine being married and being unmarried when the secret messenger shows up. Here, look, it's beautiful:
So Keith and Katte will temporarily part ways at Metz, while Keith rides east and Katte rides south. (This fandom is teaching me so much geography, lol. :P)
Then Bayreuth Friedrich gets entrusted with the secret and releases her from the engagement, but FW's spies/minions are still keeping a close eye on Wilhelmine, plus BF's dad Margrave wants the dowry, so if she suddenly announces the marriage is off and she's leaving Bayreuth going to France...that's not gonna fly. So our heroine Pannewitz still gets to have her own clothes-swapping moment of glory with a big "In your face, FW!"
A big continuing thanks for all the plotting help, guys! <3 And the sounding board. If I can't write this, I love being able to share it with people anyway.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
But! A puppy for Wilhelmine from BF would be perfect, and just the thing to help earn her trust. It will also help if he's already offered to let her off the hook, just because he learned that the King pushed her into this and the Queen hates her for it. But the dog will be extra bonus points when it comes time to confess that yes, actually, she *does* want to take him up on that out.
And then Fritz, who's been complaining that he badly needs a dog, gets to share Wilhelmine's puppy when she shows up.
Ha. Wilhelmine: It was an engagement gift from my fiancé, but now it's ours. Brother.
Everybody else: No comment.
Katte: I tried to be the original sibling collector, but the siblings I picked were too busy collecting each other. :P
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)