Did you ever take a look at the translated-into-German English envoy reports about the escape attempt?
I did now. Also the previous reports, because context is everything. Speaking of context: Raumer dedicated the entire volume to young Queen Victoria, and in his description and quotes form the various British envoy reports, goes on at some length what a shame it was that the English marriage project didn't work out, because Fritz as regent of Hannover as Crown Prince, married to Amalie, Fritz able to visit England and to travel would have been even more fabulous than he already was, and Hannover/England/Prussia OT3, instead of the shameful situation like now, when Hannover is excluded from the German Customs Union due to the (just about to separate) British connection, but I believe in you, Victoria! No Brexit! (Sorry, I couldn't esist.)
Anyway: the reports Raumer quotes go from Fritz & Wilhelmine as children onwards. For the years 1729/30, they are by Charles Hotham and Guy Dickens, respectively, and Guy Dickens, bless, actually names his sources a lot. These are mainly: SD herself (sending a note even after the news of the Fritz escape first has reached her), Frau von Kamecke (the very one who intervened when FW had a go at Wilhelmine), General Ginckel (who was called to FW and got a bellow full of "the Brits are behind everything!" bile), and "der Königin Kaplan", "the Queen's chaplain", who meets Dickens in disguise in late November and December to update him. Morever, Dickens must have had someone (not named) in the FW administration, because not only does he correctly name the title of the respective Fritz and Catte tribunals, he's also informed that Katte in his first written confession, i.e. the Species Facti, has "proven" that he tried to foil Fritz the entire time and thus in Dickens' opinion could clear himself from all wrongdoing safe knowing about Fritz' intention and not reporting it. Dickens is also extra relieved that Katte cleared the English (read: him) from being behind it all, because in an earlier report, after Katte's arrest, he's worried Katte might be pressured to say, and would say to save himself with FW, that it's all the Brits' fault. Later, Dickens is correctly informed that FW got a judgment from the tribunal twice he didn't agree with until he personally overrode it.
Dickens also mentions several conversations with Löwenörn/Löwenöhr, so that's another (shared) pool of knowledge. His dispatch about Katte's execution is dated November 11th and is on page 546.
The Commander of the fortress made the orders of King known to the Prince, to wit, that Katte would be brought here to be executed in his presence, and that he had to step towards the window in order to watch the entire procedure. Protesting was of no help to the Prince as he'd also been given to understand that if he didn't do so voluntarily, he would be forced to by evil treatment. When the Prince stepped towards the window, Katte was already at the spot of execution. As soon as he saw the later, he cried bitterly and called: "Mon cher Katte je vous demande bien pardon do vous avoir entrainé dans ce malheur!" Katt replied with very great calm: "Monseigneur, il n'ye pas de quoi!"
Katte then was ordered to kneel, and while he pushed with one hand his cap over his eyes and with the other threw a last kiss at the Crown Prince, his head was cut off. The Prince cried out and fainted. To make the scene complete, the body was left outside the prince's windows from eight in the morning, when he was beheaded, to 2 pm. Then the citizens of the town were allowed to take him away and bury him.
Raumer also says in the same dispatch Dickens expresses the opinion that all words and deeds of FW make it clear that he's determined to destroy his son (Raumer here gives us the English word "destroy" in addition to the German "zerstören"), and that all the envoys of various nations believe the only thing holding him back a little is his fear to have the Emperor against him. This is alll the more remarkable since Dickens is no fan of the Austrians. Grumbkow & Seckendorff are his main enemies at court, just as with every British ambassador.
More interesting trivia: in an October report, Dickens says he's got word from SD where she begs brother George to formally propose for his son to Wilhelmine, since she hasn't seen her daughter since the big showdown nor knows whether she'll ever see her again, that FW has said to SD he'll lock Wilhelmine away for the rest of her life, and that an official proposal/ fiancee of Prince of Wales status might be the only thing to save her daughter from this.
This is the first time where SD's obsession with the British marriage project actually comes across as not the sole motivation. Bearing in mind that her own mother (and George's) mother was locked away for life, such a threat would not have sounded like mere rethoric to her. Wilhelmine hadn't yet agreed to the Bayreuth marriage, so I do buy that love and concern for her daughter was as big a factor here at least as the usual "I must get a daughter of mine to live the life I'd have wanted".
In the December 2nd report, Dickens says FW had ordered that anyone writing about the Fritz and Katte tale loses their right hand. (And that would be why that pamphlet was printed in Cologne.)
The December 9th report includes the Queen's chaplain brings news to Dickens from SD, containing these gems, featuring FW foiled by theologians and being fan of Katte, I kid you not: The love and friendship which the Prince and his sister have felt from earliest youth for each other makes them both equally hateful to the King. Just a few days ago, the King consulted eight theologians (four Lutherans and four Calvinists) as to whether a father didn't have the right to marry his daughter to whomever he pleases? Only one, the preacher of the garnison church, was of this opinion. All others declared strictly against it. The King now shows much sympathy and compassion for Katte's death. He says: He was a promising young man whose death must have been painful for his entire family. These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
And that's really interesting, because the envoy who had that convo with Katte is long gone from Prussia! So I wonder about the transmission route from him to Fritz. Did it go via Johnn? Wilhelmine? Someone else? Directly somehow? Was Fritz filling in the "on account of some girl" and it wasn't supplied by the Danish envoy at all? There are just so many possibilities!
Indeed. If Fritz hasn't made it up for whatever reason while talking to Mitchell, I do wonder about SD as yet another possible source. The envoy she was in constant contact with was the British one, granted, but Dickens and Löwenörn talked, so news might have travelled this way, and I could see SD, especially after what FW is quoted saying re: Katte, wanting Fritz to know that Katte's remaining in Berlin had not been his fault but "some girl"'s.
Are we still limited to written evidence, though? Or does Lehndorff give us insights into who was and wasn't "tu"-ing each other in speech? (I know it's hard with our translation being at one remove from the original French.) I.e. is it possible that people who "vous"ed each other in writing might have "tu"ed each other in speech under specific circumstances? It's really hard to get data on non-written behaviors...
It is. The sole reason why I know Heinrich uses du towards Amalie in the argument is that Lehndorff quotes both Amalie's and Heinrich's phrases in the original German, so noted by Schmidt-Lötzen by footnote (and also because the spelling suddenly changes from early 20th century standard spelling to 18th century free for all). Volz' translation and edition of the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondance has them using "du" all the way, and so does the audio version (which confused me when I started to read Trier with all the vous), with Volz admitting that it has been adjusted for the reader of Volz and the listener of our day because a close brother and sister writing "Sie" would sound really odd for non-historians. Modern biographers like Ziebura go back to the Vous = Sie translation. (Krockow, interestingly enough, has Heinrich and Fritz write "Sie" but Ferdinand and Heinrich write "Du", which I could believe, but I'm now sceptical until I see the originals. Since Lehndorff of course never was alone with Fritz and Wilhelmine, he can't tell us whether they said du to each other in verbal conversation.
If I were writing fiction in German about them, I would do the following re: modes of adress between the siblings:
Fritz and Wilhelmine, AW and Heinrich, Heinrich and Ferdinand: du in personal interaction, especially if no one else is present. Sie during state occasions and in writing.
Fritz and Heinrich, once Heinrich is an adult: Sie, except when Fritz is losing his temper, then he switches to Du, just like Dad with him.
Fritz & his other sisters: mutual Sie, even during fond occasions.
Heinrich and Wilhelmine, Charlotte, Ulrike: Mutual Sie.
Ulrike and AW: du in private, Sie in public.
Heinrich and Amalie (i.e. the sister closest in age to him): Du in personal interaction with no one else or only family members/ a small circle present, Sie on state occasions, and vice versa.
But that's just to get across the respective relationships across to the readers, not based on more than the one Lehndorff report.
Ambassador reports are just such a treasure trove of information. Thank you for the summaries!
This is the first time where SD's obsession with the British marriage project actually comes across as not the sole motivation. Bearing in mind that her own mother (and George's) mother was locked away for life, such a threat would not have sounded like mere rethoric to her.
Wow, yeah. Whenever biographers get on her case for "acting" like she was afraid of her husband, I'm like, "What acting?!! WTF? Do you know what kind of fear of their husbands women live in even when their husbands *aren't* absolute monarchs? SMH."
So yes, that does sound like she's motivated not just by her desire to be a queen but to not end up like Grandma. Wow.
The King now shows much sympathy and compassion for Katte's death. He says: He was a promising young man whose death must have been painful for his entire family. These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
Uh huh. Yeah, he sounds *so* motivated by sympathy for Katte there. From the same guy who's trying to play Fritz and Wilhelmine against each other.
Frau Pannewitz? Do you think you could...maybe get a head start on punching him? Say he was ogling your breasts or something.
You have no idea how vicariously I live through Frau Pannewitz.
Indeed. If Fritz hasn't made it up for whatever reason while talking to Mitchell, I do wonder about SD as yet another possible source. The envoy she was in constant contact with was the British one, granted, but Dickens and Löwenörn talked, so news might have travelled this way, and I could see SD, especially after what FW is quoted saying re: Katte, wanting Fritz to know that Katte's remaining in Berlin had not been his fault but "some girl"'s.
That's a really interesting possibility!
Fritz: Um, thanks? *privately wonders how this is supposed to make him feel better*
Volz' translation and edition of the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondance has them using "du" all the way, and so does the audio version (which confused me when I started to read Trier with all the vous), with Volz admitting that it has been adjusted for the reader of Volz and the listener of our day because a close brother and sister writing "Sie" would sound really odd for non-historians.
And Volz is writing a hundred years ago! Rococo people: *have to vous/Sie each other while declaring passionate romantic devotion at the drop of a hat*
Krockow, interestingly enough, has Heinrich and Fritz write "Sie" but Ferdinand and Heinrich write "Du", which I could believe, but I'm now sceptical until I see the originals.
Indeed.
Since Lehndorff of course never was alone with Fritz and Wilhelmine, he can't tell us whether they said du to each other in verbal conversation.
No, but he could maybe give us a sense of how common it was for members of the upper classes to "du" or "tu" (and it sounds like the former was much more common than the latter) each other in private when they very carefully use "Sie/vous" in public. You could then apply those social mores to specific relationships on your own.
Wow, yeah. Whenever biographers get on her case for "acting" like she was afraid of her husband, I'm like, "What acting?!! WTF? Do you know what kind of fear of their husbands women live in even when their husbands *aren't* absolute monarchs? SMH."
Yep. It's entirely possible to critique her own parenting without overlooking that she herself was in a horrible situaton vis a vis FW. A great many biographers are all "but he was offering her a far better deal than most royal and noble wives got, he was into marital love and fidelity, he wanted to be a good husband, and she didn't appreciate it, when if she'd just tried to see things his way..." And that might work if we were talking about Mr. and Mrs. Hohenzollern next door, living today, but SD not only lived in a time where her husband had absolute power over her, but did know, through her mother's fate, what that could mean in a royal marriage specifically.
Incidentally, Raumer also quotes the Guy Dickens report on his conversations with Fritz re: possible flight, and in them Fritz specifically says he wants to go to France first rather than go to England directly because if he goes directly to England he knows his father will immediately assume his mother knew and will make her life miserable. His phrasing is almost identical to the one FW later uses in the submissio protocol. (Fritz does not mention what his father might do to Wilhelmine, but then he's at this point still hoping the Brits would revive the double marriage idea.)
Another things: because Raumer isn't using the Prussian state archive but the British and Danish ones, he evidently didn't have to submit his book to Prussian censorhip. And lo, he's by far the most FW critical 19th century Frederician scholar I've seen. All the others follow the narrative "FW went a bit over the top, yes, but it was a necessarily evil to produce Frederick the Great, and father & son reconciled thereafter, forming a line of future Prussian greatness" and so forth. Meanwhile, Raumer in his narrative texts around the British dispatches has no problem describing him as unjust, wilfully blind, cruel. He does concede FW's relationships to his family are just a part of his story and that he shouldn't be judged by this alone but by what he achieved as a monarch, but, in a rare, rare exeption to the 19th century norm, he doesn't excuse FW. Now, remember what Hahn said re: the historiography? Raumer's volume in a century where everthing Fritz was eaten up and became a bestseller almost sank without a trace.
Mind you, Guy Dickens and his reports have the obvious bias an English envoy would have - for example, when he describes Wilhelmine's wedding, he presents her as white as a sheet and barely able to stand, trembling with loathing for future Margrave, which, well, is not verified by anyone else's description, including hers. (But it's certainly what he would have heard from the SD corner.) And some of his early Küstrin stuff is plain wrong, such as saying he's heard Fritz isn't allowed to shave or have a servant doing it for him, and so his hair, beard and fingernails are growing wildly. (Meanwhile, the FW-Küstrin correspondance includes instructions for everything, including for the servant whose job it was to take care of Fritz' personal hygiene. FW wanted his son broken, but he also wanted him shaved and not living in his excrements.) But he's still a great primary source, even more so for usually saying where he got his intel from.
a sense of how common it was for members of the upper classes to "du" or "tu" (and it sounds like the former was much more common than the latter) each other in private when they very carefully use "Sie/vous" in public.
With the caveat that Goethe and Schiller are a generation later (or two, depending how you count): I really do think it made a difference whether you treated French or German as your primary language, plus the later part of that century saw customs changing, and the newly confident middle class changing styles. When middle-class Goethe leaves Frankfurt for Weimar and falls in love with married noblewoman Charlotte von Stein, which she after a while platonically reciprocates, she absolutely refuses the "Du". (He uses it anyway in his letters after a while.) Frau von Stein uses "Sie" when adressing her husband Josias (and vice versa) all their lives. This is late 1770s, early 1780s. Schiller, who is ten years younger, doesn't even have to fight for using the "Du" for the two noble sisters he falls in love with. By the 19th century, German nobility - which no longer uses French as a primary language - has adopted "Du" for family and romantic relationships even in letters. While in France the shift worked the other way around, and the middle class has adopted "vous" and maintained it for a loooong time; as I mentioned many a post before, Simone de Beauvoir & Sartre said "Vous" to each other all their lives.
Now whenever Lehndorff quotes Heinrich, AW or Ferdinand saying something to him directly, he has them using Sie/Vous, and vice versa, when he's talking to them. Even after years of friendship, and even when AW uses a nickname like "Lehndorfchen" (in a conversation during those last months of his life). This could be because they're royalty and he's not, but he's also referring to his One Who Got Away as "Frau von Katt(e)" or "my cousin Katt", not by her first name. And just like Wilhelmine never refers to her husband by his first name in her memoirs, but as "the Heriditary Prince/The Margrave/My husband", Lehndorff never refers to his wives by their first names in his diaries; it's "Fräulein von Häseler" pre wedding and "my wife" post wedding. He refers to his sisters by their married names, "my sister Isenburg" for example, just like Wilhelmine is "my sister of Bayreuth" and Charlotte "my sister of Braunschweig" among the Hohenzollern.
So, my rule of thumb: if they're nobility, addressing someone who isn't a social inferior, and they're talking French, they're saying "vous". If they're talking German, it depends on how upset they are; I notice that all the Hohenzollern examples for uses of "Du" to family members happen in moments of stress or heightened emotion, like FW switching from "Du" to Ihr and Sie and back during the submission protocol (and indeed in his few letters to Fritz in the 1730s, he's similarly inconsistent there), and "nope, not speaking German" Heinrich using "du" in his shouting match with Amalie.
(It's several centuries earlier, but I'm suddenly reminded that Shakespeare's royalty also usually goes for titles - "my brother Gloucester/Clarence" not "my brother Richard/George", for example. And even a century later, Charles II.'s famous death request of brother James re: Charles' mistresses, makes a class distinction in how he refers to Louise, Duchess of Portsmouth, and Nelly Gwynn, former actress and not nobility. "Take care of Portsmouth, and let not poor Nelly starve." So while the Brits had pretty much given up on "thou" by then, Quakers aside, the nobility still followed continental custom with the distinction.)
remember what Hahn said re: the historiography? Raumer's volume in a century where everthing Fritz was eaten up and became a bestseller almost sank without a trace.
And apparently Hahn, overcompensating in the other direction, didn't buy it either. Why is this so hard, people?!
which, well, is not verified by anyone else's description, including hers. (But it's certainly what he would have heard from the SD corner.)
Ooh, yes, that makes sense.
FW wanted his son broken, but he also wanted him shaved and not living in his excrements.
Indeed. One of their long-standing battlegrounds was that Fritz was careless about hygiene, and FW was fastidious about it, not in a foppish kind of way, but in a spic-and-span Prussian soldier kind of way (my sources said soldiers could get beaten if half a button wasn't polished adequately when they appeared for reviews). I've always thought Fritz's lifelong habits of wiping his ink on his sleeves and basically flouring himself with Spanish snuff might go back a teeeensy bit to this battle for identity against his father. (Soldiers still had to adhere to military standards, but Fritz does what Fritz wants, or sometimes at least the opposite of what Dad wants.)
But he's still a great primary source, even more so for usually saying where he got his intel from.
We love you, Dickens! (I didn't until now, but my inner historiographer now knows that I love you!)
"Take care of Portsmouth, and let not poor Nelly starve."
I had forgotten this quote if I learned it (and I feel like I probably did, since I did read accounts of his deathbed scene). Tongue-in-cheek question: if this is the continental example, does that mean Fredersdorf is "Mike" when Fritz is talking? ;)
I had forgotten this quote if I learned it (and I feel like I probably did, since I did read accounts of his deathbed scene).
In the (rather good) miniseries about him, which you should see in the European version ("Charles II: The Power and the Passion"), since the American ("The Last King") one got trimmed down and censored severely, making mincemeat of some of the political plots and character motivations, the scriptwriters used the line but changed "Portsmouth" to "Louise", since they figured a modern audience would wonder what Charles has against Southhampton and Plymouth that he doesn't name them as well, according to the audio commentary. ;)
Talking of dying British monarch's, SD's brother G2 might have been unwilling to do anything for his nephew (and niece!), but the story of how he responded when his dying wife Caroline told him that she doesn't want him to be alone, he should marry again, is endearing and very 18th century: "Never! I shall take a mistress!"
Tongue-in-cheek question: if this is the continental example, does that mean Fredersdorf is "Mike" when Fritz is talking? ;)
Fritz to AW in 1741, before his first battle: "Take care of Algarotti, and let not poor Michael starve?" ;)
« Non, j’aurai des maitresses! because George II was, when it came down to it, a Gerrman prince, not an English one. Naturally, he spoke French to his dying wife. Whereas his (British) envoys are among the very few who write in their native language (Dickens and Mitchell both write in English, the Hannover Hofrat wrote in French). Seriously though, that's the first endearing thing I've come across from one of the Hannover Georges preceding and succeeding G3 (who might have gotten bad press from the American colonists and gone mad, but as "Farmer George" managed a couple of nice anecdotes and of course had Alan Bennet to popularize him by play and film.
This is the first time where SD's obsession with the British marriage project actually comes across as not the sole motivation. Bearing in mind that her own mother (and George's) mother was locked away for life, such a threat would not have sounded like mere rethoric to her. Wilhelmine hadn't yet agreed to the Bayreuth marriage, so I do buy that love and concern for her daughter was as big a factor here at least as the usual "I must get a daughter of mine to live the life I'd have wanted".
Oh wow, that's a good point. Yeah, it makes sense to me that this would be part of it. I mean, not that it really excuses her treatment of Wilhelmine, but I can see her thinking being at least partially along the lines of "look, you think I'm being mean to you about this, but you just don't know how bad it can actually get."
These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
Arrrrrrgh FW! It just makes me crazy that he obviously, somewhere inside of himself, realizes that it was wrong that Katte died, that there was a serious miscarriage of justice there... and then manages to turn it all around to where it was Fritz's fault, as it couldn't possibly be his. Arrrrrgh!
Re pronouns: Probably you have said this already when you read the letters, but I am finally getting a good start on Blanning and he says that Fritz used Du with Fredersdorf :D
Re pronouns: Probably you have said this already when you read the letters, but I am finally getting a good start on Blanning and he says that Fritz used Du with Fredersdorf :D
Indeed, I had mentioned this even before we'd read the not-on-Trier letters! That plus the use of German at all is very touching. <3
Commoner Fredersdorf, I might add, and as we've discussed previously, was carefully always very formal when replying to His Majesty. But he probably did swap out coffee orders for hot chocolate--I always figured Fredersdorf showed his love and familiarity with actions more than words. ;)
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Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
I did now. Also the previous reports, because context is everything. Speaking of context: Raumer dedicated the entire volume to young Queen Victoria, and in his description and quotes form the various British envoy reports, goes on at some length what a shame it was that the English marriage project didn't work out, because Fritz as regent of Hannover as Crown Prince, married to Amalie, Fritz able to visit England and to travel would have been even more fabulous than he already was, and Hannover/England/Prussia OT3, instead of the shameful situation like now, when Hannover is excluded from the German Customs Union due to the (just about to separate) British connection, but I believe in you, Victoria! No Brexit! (Sorry, I couldn't esist.)
Anyway: the reports Raumer quotes go from Fritz & Wilhelmine as children onwards. For the years 1729/30, they are by Charles Hotham and Guy Dickens, respectively, and Guy Dickens, bless, actually names his sources a lot. These are mainly: SD herself (sending a note even after the news of the Fritz escape first has reached her), Frau von Kamecke (the very one who intervened when FW had a go at Wilhelmine), General Ginckel (who was called to FW and got a bellow full of "the Brits are behind everything!" bile), and "der Königin Kaplan", "the Queen's chaplain", who meets Dickens in disguise in late November and December to update him. Morever, Dickens must have had someone (not named) in the FW administration, because not only does he correctly name the title of the respective Fritz and Catte tribunals, he's also informed that Katte in his first written confession, i.e. the Species Facti, has "proven" that he tried to foil Fritz the entire time and thus in Dickens' opinion could clear himself from all wrongdoing safe knowing about Fritz' intention and not reporting it. Dickens is also extra relieved that Katte cleared the English (read: him) from being behind it all, because in an earlier report, after Katte's arrest, he's worried Katte might be pressured to say, and would say to save himself with FW, that it's all the Brits' fault. Later, Dickens is correctly informed that FW got a judgment from the tribunal twice he didn't agree with until he personally overrode it.
Dickens also mentions several conversations with Löwenörn/Löwenöhr, so that's another (shared) pool of knowledge. His dispatch about Katte's execution is dated November 11th and is on page 546.
The Commander of the fortress made the orders of King known to the Prince, to wit, that Katte would be brought here to be executed in his presence, and that he had to step towards the window in order to watch the entire procedure. Protesting was of no help to the Prince as he'd also been given to understand that if he didn't do so voluntarily, he would be forced to by evil treatment. When the Prince stepped towards the window, Katte was already at the spot of execution. As soon as he saw the later, he cried bitterly and called: "Mon cher Katte je vous demande bien pardon do vous avoir entrainé dans ce malheur!" Katt replied with very great calm: "Monseigneur, il n'ye pas de quoi!"
Katte then was ordered to kneel, and while he pushed with one hand his cap over his eyes and with the other threw a last kiss at the Crown Prince, his head was cut off. The Prince cried out and fainted. To make the scene complete, the body was left outside the prince's windows from eight in the morning, when he was beheaded, to 2 pm. Then the citizens of the town were allowed to take him away and bury him.
Raumer also says in the same dispatch Dickens expresses the opinion that all words and deeds of FW make it clear that he's determined to destroy his son (Raumer here gives us the English word "destroy" in addition to the German "zerstören"), and that all the envoys of various nations believe the only thing holding him back a little is his fear to have the Emperor against him. This is alll the more remarkable since Dickens is no fan of the Austrians. Grumbkow & Seckendorff are his main enemies at court, just as with every British ambassador.
More interesting trivia: in an October report, Dickens says he's got word from SD where she begs brother George to formally propose for his son to Wilhelmine, since she hasn't seen her daughter since the big showdown nor knows whether she'll ever see her again, that FW has said to SD he'll lock Wilhelmine away for the rest of her life, and that an official proposal/ fiancee of Prince of Wales status might be the only thing to save her daughter from this.
This is the first time where SD's obsession with the British marriage project actually comes across as not the sole motivation. Bearing in mind that her own mother (and George's) mother was locked away for life, such a threat would not have sounded like mere rethoric to her. Wilhelmine hadn't yet agreed to the Bayreuth marriage, so I do buy that love and concern for her daughter was as big a factor here at least as the usual "I must get a daughter of mine to live the life I'd have wanted".
In the December 2nd report, Dickens says FW had ordered that anyone writing about the Fritz and Katte tale loses their right hand. (And that would be why that pamphlet was printed in Cologne.)
The December 9th report includes the Queen's chaplain brings news to Dickens from SD, containing these gems, featuring FW foiled by theologians and being fan of Katte, I kid you not: The love and friendship which the Prince and his sister have felt from earliest youth for each other makes them both equally hateful to the King. Just a few days ago, the King consulted eight theologians (four Lutherans and four Calvinists) as to whether a father didn't have the right to marry his daughter to whomever he pleases? Only one, the preacher of the garnison church, was of this opinion. All others declared strictly against it. The King now shows much sympathy and compassion for Katte's death. He says: He was a promising young man whose death must have been painful for his entire family. These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
And that's really interesting, because the envoy who had that convo with Katte is long gone from Prussia! So I wonder about the transmission route from him to Fritz. Did it go via Johnn? Wilhelmine? Someone else? Directly somehow? Was Fritz filling in the "on account of some girl" and it wasn't supplied by the Danish envoy at all? There are just so many possibilities!
Indeed. If Fritz hasn't made it up for whatever reason while talking to Mitchell, I do wonder about SD as yet another possible source. The envoy she was in constant contact with was the British one, granted, but Dickens and Löwenörn talked, so news might have travelled this way, and I could see SD, especially after what FW is quoted saying re: Katte, wanting Fritz to know that Katte's remaining in Berlin had not been his fault but "some girl"'s.
Are we still limited to written evidence, though? Or does Lehndorff give us insights into who was and wasn't "tu"-ing each other in speech? (I know it's hard with our translation being at one remove from the original French.) I.e. is it possible that people who "vous"ed each other in writing might have "tu"ed each other in speech under specific circumstances? It's really hard to get data on non-written behaviors...
It is. The sole reason why I know Heinrich uses du towards Amalie in the argument is that Lehndorff quotes both Amalie's and Heinrich's phrases in the original German, so noted by Schmidt-Lötzen by footnote (and also because the spelling suddenly changes from early 20th century standard spelling to 18th century free for all). Volz' translation and edition of the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondance has them using "du" all the way, and so does the audio version (which confused me when I started to read Trier with all the vous), with Volz admitting that it has been adjusted for the reader of Volz and the listener of our day because a close brother and sister writing "Sie" would sound really odd for non-historians. Modern biographers like Ziebura go back to the Vous = Sie translation. (Krockow, interestingly enough, has Heinrich and Fritz write "Sie" but Ferdinand and Heinrich write "Du", which I could believe, but I'm now sceptical until I see the originals. Since Lehndorff of course never was alone with Fritz and Wilhelmine, he can't tell us whether they said du to each other in verbal conversation.
If I were writing fiction in German about them, I would do the following re: modes of adress between the siblings:
Fritz and Wilhelmine, AW and Heinrich, Heinrich and Ferdinand: du in personal interaction, especially if no one else is present. Sie during state occasions and in writing.
Fritz and Heinrich, once Heinrich is an adult: Sie, except when Fritz is losing his temper, then he switches to Du, just like Dad with him.
Fritz & his other sisters: mutual Sie, even during fond occasions.
Heinrich and Wilhelmine, Charlotte, Ulrike: Mutual Sie.
Ulrike and AW: du in private, Sie in public.
Heinrich and Amalie (i.e. the sister closest in age to him): Du in personal interaction with no one else or only family members/ a small circle present, Sie on state occasions, and vice versa.
But that's just to get across the respective relationships across to the readers, not based on more than the one Lehndorff report.
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
This is the first time where SD's obsession with the British marriage project actually comes across as not the sole motivation. Bearing in mind that her own mother (and George's) mother was locked away for life, such a threat would not have sounded like mere rethoric to her.
Wow, yeah. Whenever biographers get on her case for "acting" like she was afraid of her husband, I'm like, "What acting?!! WTF? Do you know what kind of fear of their husbands women live in even when their husbands *aren't* absolute monarchs? SMH."
So yes, that does sound like she's motivated not just by her desire to be a queen but to not end up like Grandma. Wow.
The King now shows much sympathy and compassion for Katte's death. He says: He was a promising young man whose death must have been painful for his entire family. These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
Uh huh. Yeah, he sounds *so* motivated by sympathy for Katte there. From the same guy who's trying to play Fritz and Wilhelmine against each other.
Frau Pannewitz? Do you think you could...maybe get a head start on punching him? Say he was ogling your breasts or something.
You have no idea how vicariously I live through Frau Pannewitz.
Indeed. If Fritz hasn't made it up for whatever reason while talking to Mitchell, I do wonder about SD as yet another possible source. The envoy she was in constant contact with was the British one, granted, but Dickens and Löwenörn talked, so news might have travelled this way, and I could see SD, especially after what FW is quoted saying re: Katte, wanting Fritz to know that Katte's remaining in Berlin had not been his fault but "some girl"'s.
That's a really interesting possibility!
Fritz: Um, thanks? *privately wonders how this is supposed to make him feel better*
Volz' translation and edition of the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondance has them using "du" all the way, and so does the audio version (which confused me when I started to read Trier with all the vous), with Volz admitting that it has been adjusted for the reader of Volz and the listener of our day because a close brother and sister writing "Sie" would sound really odd for non-historians.
And Volz is writing a hundred years ago! Rococo people: *have to vous/Sie each other while declaring passionate romantic devotion at the drop of a hat*
Krockow, interestingly enough, has Heinrich and Fritz write "Sie" but Ferdinand and Heinrich write "Du", which I could believe, but I'm now sceptical until I see the originals.
Indeed.
Since Lehndorff of course never was alone with Fritz and Wilhelmine, he can't tell us whether they said du to each other in verbal conversation.
No, but he could maybe give us a sense of how common it was for members of the upper classes to "du" or "tu" (and it sounds like the former was much more common than the latter) each other in private when they very carefully use "Sie/vous" in public. You could then apply those social mores to specific relationships on your own.
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Wow, yeah. Whenever biographers get on her case for "acting" like she was afraid of her husband, I'm like, "What acting?!! WTF? Do you know what kind of fear of their husbands women live in even when their husbands *aren't* absolute monarchs? SMH."
Yep. It's entirely possible to critique her own parenting without overlooking that she herself was in a horrible situaton vis a vis FW. A great many biographers are all "but he was offering her a far better deal than most royal and noble wives got, he was into marital love and fidelity, he wanted to be a good husband, and she didn't appreciate it, when if she'd just tried to see things his way..." And that might work if we were talking about Mr. and Mrs. Hohenzollern next door, living today, but SD not only lived in a time where her husband had absolute power over her, but did know, through her mother's fate, what that could mean in a royal marriage specifically.
Incidentally, Raumer also quotes the Guy Dickens report on his conversations with Fritz re: possible flight, and in them Fritz specifically says he wants to go to France first rather than go to England directly because if he goes directly to England he knows his father will immediately assume his mother knew and will make her life miserable. His phrasing is almost identical to the one FW later uses in the submissio protocol. (Fritz does not mention what his father might do to Wilhelmine, but then he's at this point still hoping the Brits would revive the double marriage idea.)
Another things: because Raumer isn't using the Prussian state archive but the British and Danish ones, he evidently didn't have to submit his book to Prussian censorhip. And lo, he's by far the most FW critical 19th century Frederician scholar I've seen. All the others follow the narrative "FW went a bit over the top, yes, but it was a necessarily evil to produce Frederick the Great, and father & son reconciled thereafter, forming a line of future Prussian greatness" and so forth. Meanwhile, Raumer in his narrative texts around the British dispatches has no problem describing him as unjust, wilfully blind, cruel. He does concede FW's relationships to his family are just a part of his story and that he shouldn't be judged by this alone but by what he achieved as a monarch, but, in a rare, rare exeption to the 19th century norm, he doesn't excuse FW. Now, remember what Hahn said re: the historiography? Raumer's volume in a century where everthing Fritz was eaten up and became a bestseller almost sank without a trace.
Mind you, Guy Dickens and his reports have the obvious bias an English envoy would have - for example, when he describes Wilhelmine's wedding, he presents her as white as a sheet and barely able to stand, trembling with loathing for future Margrave, which, well, is not verified by anyone else's description, including hers. (But it's certainly what he would have heard from the SD corner.) And some of his early Küstrin stuff is plain wrong, such as saying he's heard Fritz isn't allowed to shave or have a servant doing it for him, and so his hair, beard and fingernails are growing wildly. (Meanwhile, the FW-Küstrin correspondance includes instructions for everything, including for the servant whose job it was to take care of Fritz' personal hygiene. FW wanted his son broken, but he also wanted him shaved and not living in his excrements.) But he's still a great primary source, even more so for usually saying where he got his intel from.
a sense of how common it was for members of the upper classes to "du" or "tu" (and it sounds like the former was much more common than the latter) each other in private when they very carefully use "Sie/vous" in public.
With the caveat that Goethe and Schiller are a generation later (or two, depending how you count): I really do think it made a difference whether you treated French or German as your primary language, plus the later part of that century saw customs changing, and the newly confident middle class changing styles. When middle-class Goethe leaves Frankfurt for Weimar and falls in love with married noblewoman Charlotte von Stein, which she after a while platonically reciprocates, she absolutely refuses the "Du". (He uses it anyway in his letters after a while.) Frau von Stein uses "Sie" when adressing her husband Josias (and vice versa) all their lives. This is late 1770s, early 1780s. Schiller, who is ten years younger, doesn't even have to fight for using the "Du" for the two noble sisters he falls in love with. By the 19th century, German nobility - which no longer uses French as a primary language - has adopted "Du" for family and romantic relationships even in letters. While in France the shift worked the other way around, and the middle class has adopted "vous" and maintained it for a loooong time; as I mentioned many a post before, Simone de Beauvoir & Sartre said "Vous" to each other all their lives.
Now whenever Lehndorff quotes Heinrich, AW or Ferdinand saying something to him directly, he has them using Sie/Vous, and vice versa, when he's talking to them. Even after years of friendship, and even when AW uses a nickname like "Lehndorfchen" (in a conversation during those last months of his life). This could be because they're royalty and he's not, but he's also referring to his One Who Got Away as "Frau von Katt(e)" or "my cousin Katt", not by her first name. And just like Wilhelmine never refers to her husband by his first name in her memoirs, but as "the Heriditary Prince/The Margrave/My husband", Lehndorff never refers to his wives by their first names in his diaries; it's "Fräulein von Häseler" pre wedding and "my wife" post wedding. He refers to his sisters by their married names, "my sister Isenburg" for example, just like Wilhelmine is "my sister of Bayreuth" and Charlotte "my sister of Braunschweig" among the Hohenzollern.
So, my rule of thumb: if they're nobility, addressing someone who isn't a social inferior, and they're talking French, they're saying "vous". If they're talking German, it depends on how upset they are; I notice that all the Hohenzollern examples for uses of "Du" to family members happen in moments of stress or heightened emotion, like FW switching from "Du" to Ihr and Sie and back during the submission protocol (and indeed in his few letters to Fritz in the 1730s, he's similarly inconsistent there), and "nope, not speaking German" Heinrich using "du" in his shouting match with Amalie.
(It's several centuries earlier, but I'm suddenly reminded that Shakespeare's royalty also usually goes for titles - "my brother Gloucester/Clarence" not "my brother Richard/George", for example. And even a century later, Charles II.'s famous death request of brother James re: Charles' mistresses, makes a class distinction in how he refers to Louise, Duchess of Portsmouth, and Nelly Gwynn, former actress and not nobility. "Take care of Portsmouth, and let not poor Nelly starve." So while the Brits had pretty much given up on "thou" by then, Quakers aside, the nobility still followed continental custom with the distinction.)
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
And apparently Hahn, overcompensating in the other direction, didn't buy it either. Why is this so hard, people?!
which, well, is not verified by anyone else's description, including hers. (But it's certainly what he would have heard from the SD corner.)
Ooh, yes, that makes sense.
FW wanted his son broken, but he also wanted him shaved and not living in his excrements.
Indeed. One of their long-standing battlegrounds was that Fritz was careless about hygiene, and FW was fastidious about it, not in a foppish kind of way, but in a spic-and-span Prussian soldier kind of way (my sources said soldiers could get beaten if half a button wasn't polished adequately when they appeared for reviews). I've always thought Fritz's lifelong habits of wiping his ink on his sleeves and basically flouring himself with Spanish snuff might go back a teeeensy bit to this battle for identity against his father. (Soldiers still had to adhere to military standards, but Fritz does what Fritz wants, or sometimes at least the opposite of what Dad wants.)
But he's still a great primary source, even more so for usually saying where he got his intel from.
We love you, Dickens! (I didn't until now, but my inner historiographer now knows that I love you!)
"Take care of Portsmouth, and let not poor Nelly starve."
I had forgotten this quote if I learned it (and I feel like I probably did, since I did read accounts of his deathbed scene). Tongue-in-cheek question: if this is the continental example, does that mean Fredersdorf is "Mike" when Fritz is talking? ;)
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
In the (rather good) miniseries about him, which you should see in the European version ("Charles II: The Power and the Passion"), since the American ("The Last King") one got trimmed down and censored severely, making mincemeat of some of the political plots and character motivations, the scriptwriters used the line but changed "Portsmouth" to "Louise", since they figured a modern audience would wonder what Charles has against Southhampton and Plymouth that he doesn't name them as well, according to the audio commentary. ;)
Talking of dying British monarch's, SD's brother G2 might have been unwilling to do anything for his nephew (and niece!), but the story of how he responded when his dying wife Caroline told him that she doesn't want him to be alone, he should marry again, is endearing and very 18th century: "Never! I shall take a mistress!"
Tongue-in-cheek question: if this is the continental example, does that mean Fredersdorf is "Mike" when Fritz is talking? ;)
Fritz to AW in 1741, before his first battle: "Take care of Algarotti, and let not poor Michael starve?" ;)
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Ha! That is endearing and very 18th century.
Fritz to AW in 1741, before his first battle: "Take care of Algarotti, and let not poor Michael starve?" ;)
Love it!
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Oh wow, that's a good point. Yeah, it makes sense to me that this would be part of it. I mean, not that it really excuses her treatment of Wilhelmine, but I can see her thinking being at least partially along the lines of "look, you think I'm being mean to you about this, but you just don't know how bad it can actually get."
These conversations, he ends every time by asking everyone present whether not the Prince, as the cause of Katte's death, has very much to answer for.
Arrrrrrgh FW! It just makes me crazy that he obviously, somewhere inside of himself, realizes that it was wrong that Katte died, that there was a serious miscarriage of justice there... and then manages to turn it all around to where it was Fritz's fault, as it couldn't possibly be his. Arrrrrgh!
Re pronouns: Probably you have said this already when you read the letters, but I am finally getting a good start on Blanning and he says that Fritz used Du with Fredersdorf :D
Re: Katte - Species Facti 2
Indeed, I had mentioned this even before we'd read the not-on-Trier letters! That plus the use of German at all is very touching. <3
Commoner Fredersdorf, I might add, and as we've discussed previously, was carefully always very formal when replying to His Majesty. But he probably did swap out coffee orders for hot chocolate--I always figured Fredersdorf showed his love and familiarity with actions more than words. ;)