re: Fritz: I tell you, it's the absolute power problem. If you don't have to care what anyone thinks of you because everyone around you depends on you, and you've got background trauma and a terrier nature, your use of the social graces distinctly lessens. In this case, he wasn't just being nice, either; after all, he had pushed for her marriage to happen himself because he figured two Prussia fans on the throne of Russia were better than one. (Little did he know...) Incidentally, something I hadn't consciously known before browsing through the memoirs was that Catherine's mother was also Ulrike's (later) sister-in-law, i.e. Ulrike married one of the brothers (not the niece-pawing creep). Which means Gustav was Catherine's first cousin. (Not that this stopped the war between them in the 1790s.)
Countess Bentinck: may not have scored with Heinrich (unless you're Charlotte Pangels and believe facilitating this heartrendering affair was Lehndorff's happy desire), but definitely comes across as a captivating, interesting woman in all mentions of her I've seen so far.
sooooo cuuuuute now I want the story where Heinrich is her gay BFF
If you've ever sceen the final scene of "My Best Friend's Wedding", with Julia Roberts and Rupert Everett as her gay bff, that's the one that came to mind immediately when you said this. Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding, blissfully unaware of what was waiting for each of them in the future.
Madame Bielke (born Johanna von Grothusen but married to a Dane, which is why her last name sometimes gets spelled Bjelke or Bielke, depending on the source) got a letter from Catherine during Heinrich's first Russia trip (which lasted for months), and in this letter she wrote:
I have never met someone else in whom I have found such a sympathy of ideas. We often open the mouth at the same time to say the same thing. This probably explains why he enjoys my society. I must admit that no royal visit could have been more agreeable to me than his is. He doesn't miss anything, and one has to esteem him very highly. His mood is always bright, his character sincere and philanthropic, his mind is noble, in a word, he is a hero and my dear friend.
Now, in all fairness: Heinrich was at his best because he was on a diplomatic mission (and Big Bro was far, far away). Undoubtedly, if he had become part of Catherine's court or administration, in whichever capacity - making him her satrap in Wallachia was one of her suggestions to Fritz (Fritz: NO!), they'd have clashed sooner or later, and he would have found her as despotic as he found his brother. Not to mention that he had his dark moods, too, and as for sincerety and honesty, I was reminded again of how he turned a Fritz-licensed family trip to visit Ulrike in Sweden into a top political mission with the triple goals of 1. Reconciling Ulrike and Catherine (Sweden and Russia being at cold war odds at the time, Gustav wasn't even King yet), 2. Encouraging the readiness for peace on the Russian side and offering on Prussia's behalf to take over the mediator role (in the Turkish-Russian war which was going on at that time) possibly with Austria, 3. Investigate the possibility of a triple alliance in conjunction of land appropriation (poor Poles!) as a treaty guarantee for all three powers) - by arranging an invite for himself to Russia behind Fritz' back. He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.) This particular bit didn't get known until 130 years later, when in 1896 Catherine's correspondance with her envoy Prince Dimitri Golizyn was first published. It took a while longer for German historians to accept this hadn't been Fritz' idea to begin with. None other than our G. Volz had to lay it out in the "Forschungen zur Brandenburgisch-Preußischen Geschichte" Bd. 35, 1923 that it happened thusly:
Prince Golizyn was en route to Den Haag and stopped by in Berlin when Heinrich approached him. Reports Golizyn: "Prince Heinrich has told me that the King was sending him in the summer to Stockholm in order to influence the Queen his sister for peace. (...) The Prince said that he was very satisfied by this mission but would be even happier if on this occasion he would have the chance to visit St. Petersburg to express his admiration to the Czarina. But this could not happen in any other way but through the Czarina's own contribution, if she immediately after his arrival at Stockholm were to write to the King in this matter, who might not agree to a first request but would definitely give in if the Czarina would insist. The Prince concluded with the request that Prince Golizyn would tell the Czarina of this wish (...) and would keep this request in stricted confidence in order not to compromise him with the King, who did not know about this."
Fritz duly got a letter from Catherine which said: His royal highness Prince Heinrich has gone to visit his sister in Stockholm. It's only a day from Stockholm to Reval, from Reval to Kronstadt another day. This town is only two miles away from Peterhof, where I usually spend my summers. I can't be in such a close proximity to a prince who is close to your majesty without experiencing the vivid wish to renew our acquaintance. HOwever, I wouldn't make further step without your majesty's permission. I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Whether or not Fritz deduced Little Bro, with the help of his childhood bff, had just pulled a fast one on him, he agreed and wrote to Heinrich: If you manage to reconcile the Czarina with Ulrike, I would be very pleased. Besides, I am entrusting you with everything that serves our interests. (..) It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
(Heinrich: You Fritzplaining things to me is one big reason why I didn't say anything. Mission accomplished! On to Russia!)
I must admit, now that their youthful friendship is canon, I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
On a more serious note, of course Catherine, as opposed to her late (very late) husband, never let personal friendship with a Prussian Prince get in the way of go-getting, and she wouldn't have done this if she didn't consider there was a potential use for her. Just as Heinrich, when she died, was both sincerely mourning her and aware this could be politically advantageous to Prussia, because her son Paul, with his urge to prove he was really also Peter's son, was also a devoted Prussia fan (and also more approachable to the idea of making peace with Revolutionary France).(Remember: I am wearing (mourning) in memory of the friendship she's shown towards me, and of her genius. For losing it is a loss to the whole world. (...) She had supreme qualities. I can never forget her attention, her amiability and the power of her mind. What remains now is very small, compared to her. Of course, from a political point of view her death is a stroke of luck for us. ) Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
ETA: And here is the final scene from My Best Friend's Wedding which I meant. Context, if you haven't seen the film: our heroine, Julia Roberts, has in vain through the movie tried to prevent the man she loves from wedding another, in the process realised she was being wrong and mean, and did her best to patch up things between the two lovers who do marry according to schedule after all. Rupert Everett is her gay bff who cheers her up in said final scene.
I... am not sure whether I have seen this. I think maybe? It looks vaguely familiar. I know I heard a bunch about it at the time, so maybe that just got stuck in my brain. But YES that is exactly how I picture Heinrich as a gay dancing bff (only rather shorter). (Although I cannot picture Sophie as Roberts' character.) (My first reaction to the excerpt you linked: OMG did we really live through that kind of hair in the 90's? ...we did, didn't we?? (I even have pictures of myself to prove it, sadly.))
Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding
These were lovely and I love to picture Heinrich and Sophie dancing these. Incidentally, the minuet they play in the second link (Luigi Boccherini) is a staple of the Suzuki violin repertoire, and I played it countless times as a small person. It was really cool to see them dancing to it (of course, as a child I only had a very vague idea that it was a dance at all) and to see how the parts of the music actually lend themselves to parts of the dance as well. (Also, (a) I am super impressed by how into it the kids seemed to be -- I was forced to take a Cotillion class as a teenager and every single one of us, as far as I know, hated it, although we didn't learn to dance minuets and I might have been more interested if we did -- and (b) I really liked the one girl with the purple swishy skirt :) )
He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.)
Ahahahaha perhaps that is why they were BFFs and "often open the mouth at the same time to say the same things" :D That is an amazing story and once again I am indebted to both G. Volz and to you for relaying the story :D
I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Catherine! :D
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
Excellent!
Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
This is exactly why I get such a huge kick out of their friendship (and, for that matter, both of them) :D And why I imagine Catherine as partially thinking "eh, besides the gay thing, it's good I didn't marry Heinrich because I would have hated to destroy our friendship by staging a coup and killing him. Also because he might have plotted right back at me" :) ...okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
Hair in the 90s: better than in the 80s at least? Also, still modest compared with the 1780s (see also: Marie Antoinette). :)
AU in which young Heinrich and Princess Sophie get married: on the one hand, AU!Catherine, who never bears that name because there is no reason for a change of religion, would have had far less advantageous circumstances for any type of coup. As opposed to Peter, Heinrich is not the heir to the throne, nor ever will be. He's a third brother who until the 7 Years War has exactly zero political power. And since AW quickly produces two sons after that wedding, Heinrich is really far from the throne. What's more, Russia has had three female monarchs before Catherine makes her coup, and Catherine I., the wife of Peter I., has established the precedent that you can, in fact, become the ruling monarch without a single drop of Romanow blood in your vein, based on you being the widow of the deceased Czar and mother of his children. No such circumstances apply for Prussia, with a grand total of three monarchs (F1, FW and Fritz), all male, and all against female rulers in their every uttering. (Not sure Fritz' early last will already has the "no female regent!" clause or not. Also not sure whether FW excluded the possibility of his wife being regent if he should die before his son reaches his majority in the 1722 will, I didn't read it for that, but it's FW, so it's likely.
Still, I would bet that any AU where kids Heinrich and Sophie get married is an AU in which Heinrich does, in fact, take his one shot during the 7 Years War where Fritz is really really depressed post Kunersdorf and goes for the regency. I.e. he and Sophie are the Prussian Macbeths, hopefully with a better ending for either. I'm also sure that Sophie, if Heinrich, as to be expected, won't have sex with her does what Catherine did in RL, i.e. take lovers. Whether Heinrich would be cool with the resulting kids as heirs: impossible to say, since a comparable situation never arose. (Mina never got pregnant, and they were never friends who truly liked each other).
yesssss! Prussian Macbeths, except that Lady, er, Sophie feels no compunction about double-crossing Heinrich afterwards, and vice versa. And also with a happy ending, yes -- for one thing, I can't imagine Sophie ever feeling too bad about causing Fritz' death :P (Heinrich would for a while, but Sophie would be all, "Are you kidding me? Come on, he was the worst, y/y? Look, do I have to remind you of AW?")
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
No? That would require far more self-awareness than he's equipped for? :-PP
Catherine! :D
:D
Yeah, she and Heinrich are two peas in a pod! They would make excellent Macbeths...for a while.
Btw, the whole "taking the heir away from its parents to be raised as the monarch sees fit" thing that Fritz did to FW2 with such stellar results *cough* was something that was both done to Catherine and by Catherine: Elizaveta took Catherine's son Paul (of the dubious paternity) away at birth, and Catherine similarly later took Paul's son Alexander, her grandson, away.
Dysfunctional families: not limited to Hohenzollerns and Hanovers!
okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
THIS. I mean, assuming Fritz is poisoned at the nadir of Prussian fortunes in the Seven Years' War, it spares Heinrich from having to feel bored without him. Even leaving aside the responsibilities of regency, his wife will keep him on his toes. Never a dull moment! :D
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Re: Anhalt Sophie: Portrait of the Czarina as a young girl
Countess Bentinck: may not have scored with Heinrich (unless you're Charlotte Pangels and believe facilitating this heartrendering affair was Lehndorff's happy desire), but definitely comes across as a captivating, interesting woman in all mentions of her I've seen so far.
sooooo cuuuuute now I want the story where Heinrich is her gay BFF
If you've ever sceen the final scene of "My Best Friend's Wedding", with Julia Roberts and Rupert Everett as her gay bff, that's the one that came to mind immediately when you said this. Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding, blissfully unaware of what was waiting for each of them in the future.
Madame Bielke (born Johanna von Grothusen but married to a Dane, which is why her last name sometimes gets spelled Bjelke or Bielke, depending on the source) got a letter from Catherine during Heinrich's first Russia trip (which lasted for months), and in this letter she wrote:
I have never met someone else in whom I have found such a sympathy of ideas. We often open the mouth at the same time to say the same thing. This probably explains why he enjoys my society. I must admit that no royal visit could have been more agreeable to me than his is. He doesn't miss anything, and one has to esteem him very highly. His mood is always bright, his character sincere and philanthropic, his mind is noble, in a word, he is a hero and my dear friend.
Now, in all fairness: Heinrich was at his best because he was on a diplomatic mission (and Big Bro was far, far away). Undoubtedly, if he had become part of Catherine's court or administration, in whichever capacity - making him her satrap in Wallachia was one of her suggestions to Fritz (Fritz: NO!), they'd have clashed sooner or later, and he would have found her as despotic as he found his brother. Not to mention that he had his dark moods, too, and as for sincerety and honesty, I was reminded again of how he turned a Fritz-licensed family trip to visit Ulrike in Sweden into a top political mission with the triple goals of 1. Reconciling Ulrike and Catherine (Sweden and Russia being at cold war odds at the time, Gustav wasn't even King yet), 2. Encouraging the readiness for peace on the Russian side and offering on Prussia's behalf to take over the mediator role (in the Turkish-Russian war which was going on at that time) possibly with Austria, 3. Investigate the possibility of a triple alliance in conjunction of land appropriation (poor Poles!) as a treaty guarantee for all three powers) - by arranging an invite for himself to Russia behind Fritz' back. He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.) This particular bit didn't get known until 130 years later, when in 1896 Catherine's correspondance with her envoy Prince Dimitri Golizyn was first published. It took a while longer for German historians to accept this hadn't been Fritz' idea to begin with. None other than our G. Volz had to lay it out in the "Forschungen zur Brandenburgisch-Preußischen Geschichte" Bd. 35, 1923 that it happened thusly:
Prince Golizyn was en route to Den Haag and stopped by in Berlin when Heinrich approached him. Reports Golizyn: "Prince Heinrich has told me that the King was sending him in the summer to Stockholm in order to influence the Queen his sister for peace. (...) The Prince said that he was very satisfied by this mission but would be even happier if on this occasion he would have the chance to visit St. Petersburg to express his admiration to the Czarina. But this could not happen in any other way but through the Czarina's own contribution, if she immediately after his arrival at Stockholm were to write to the King in this matter, who might not agree to a first request but would definitely give in if the Czarina would insist. The Prince concluded with the request that Prince Golizyn would tell the Czarina of this wish (...) and would keep this request in stricted confidence in order not to compromise him with the King, who did not know about this."
Fritz duly got a letter from Catherine which said: His royal highness Prince Heinrich has gone to visit his sister in Stockholm. It's only a day from Stockholm to Reval, from Reval to Kronstadt another day. This town is only two miles away from Peterhof, where I usually spend my summers. I can't be in such a close proximity to a prince who is close to your majesty without experiencing the vivid wish to renew our acquaintance. HOwever, I wouldn't make further step without your majesty's permission. I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Whether or not Fritz deduced Little Bro, with the help of his childhood bff, had just pulled a fast one on him, he agreed and wrote to Heinrich: If you manage to reconcile the Czarina with Ulrike, I would be very pleased. Besides, I am entrusting you with everything that serves our interests. (..) It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
(Heinrich: You Fritzplaining things to me is one big reason why I didn't say anything. Mission accomplished! On to Russia!)
I must admit, now that their youthful friendship is canon, I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
On a more serious note, of course Catherine, as opposed to her late (very late) husband, never let personal friendship with a Prussian Prince get in the way of go-getting, and she wouldn't have done this if she didn't consider there was a potential use for her. Just as Heinrich, when she died, was both sincerely mourning her and aware this could be politically advantageous to Prussia, because her son Paul, with his urge to prove he was really also Peter's son, was also a devoted Prussia fan (and also more approachable to the idea of making peace with Revolutionary France).(Remember: I am wearing (mourning) in memory of the friendship she's shown towards me, and of her genius. For losing it is a loss to the whole world. (...) She had supreme qualities. I can never forget her attention, her amiability and the power of her mind. What remains now is very small, compared to her. Of course, from a political point of view her death is a stroke of luck for us. ) Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
ETA: And here is the final scene from My Best Friend's Wedding which I meant. Context, if you haven't seen the film: our heroine, Julia Roberts, has in vain through the movie tried to prevent the man she loves from wedding another, in the process realised she was being wrong and mean, and did her best to patch up things between the two lovers who do marry according to schedule after all. Rupert Everett is her gay bff who cheers her up in said final scene.
Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
I... am not sure whether I have seen this. I think maybe? It looks vaguely familiar. I know I heard a bunch about it at the time, so maybe that just got stuck in my brain. But YES that is exactly how I picture Heinrich as a gay dancing bff (only rather shorter). (Although I cannot picture Sophie as Roberts' character.) (My first reaction to the excerpt you linked: OMG did we really live through that kind of hair in the 90's? ...we did, didn't we?? (I even have pictures of myself to prove it, sadly.))
Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding
These were lovely and I love to picture Heinrich and Sophie dancing these. Incidentally, the minuet they play in the second link (Luigi Boccherini) is a staple of the Suzuki violin repertoire, and I played it countless times as a small person. It was really cool to see them dancing to it (of course, as a child I only had a very vague idea that it was a dance at all) and to see how the parts of the music actually lend themselves to parts of the dance as well. (Also, (a) I am super impressed by how into it the kids seemed to be -- I was forced to take a Cotillion class as a teenager and every single one of us, as far as I know, hated it, although we didn't learn to dance minuets and I might have been more interested if we did -- and (b) I really liked the one girl with the purple swishy skirt :) )
He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.)
Ahahahaha perhaps that is why they were BFFs and "often open the mouth at the same time to say the same things" :D That is an amazing story and once again I am indebted to both G. Volz and to you for relaying the story :D
I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Catherine! :D
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
Excellent!
Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
This is exactly why I get such a huge kick out of their friendship (and, for that matter, both of them) :D And why I imagine Catherine as partially thinking "eh, besides the gay thing, it's good I didn't marry Heinrich because I would have hated to destroy our friendship by staging a coup and killing him. Also because he might have plotted right back at me" :) ...okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
AU in which young Heinrich and Princess Sophie get married: on the one hand, AU!Catherine, who never bears that name because there is no reason for a change of religion, would have had far less advantageous circumstances for any type of coup. As opposed to Peter, Heinrich is not the heir to the throne, nor ever will be. He's a third brother who until the 7 Years War has exactly zero political power. And since AW quickly produces two sons after that wedding, Heinrich is really far from the throne. What's more, Russia has had three female monarchs before Catherine makes her coup, and Catherine I., the wife of Peter I., has established the precedent that you can, in fact, become the ruling monarch without a single drop of Romanow blood in your vein, based on you being the widow of the deceased Czar and mother of his children. No such circumstances apply for Prussia, with a grand total of three monarchs (F1, FW and Fritz), all male, and all against female rulers in their every uttering. (Not sure Fritz' early last will already has the "no female regent!" clause or not. Also not sure whether FW excluded the possibility of his wife being regent if he should die before his son reaches his majority in the 1722 will, I didn't read it for that, but it's FW, so it's likely.
Still, I would bet that any AU where kids Heinrich and Sophie get married is an AU in which Heinrich does, in fact, take his one shot during the 7 Years War where Fritz is really really depressed post Kunersdorf and goes for the regency. I.e. he and Sophie are the Prussian Macbeths, hopefully with a better ending for either. I'm also sure that Sophie, if Heinrich, as to be expected, won't have sex with her does what Catherine did in RL, i.e. take lovers. Whether Heinrich would be cool with the resulting kids as heirs: impossible to say, since a comparable situation never arose. (Mina never got pregnant, and they were never friends who truly liked each other).
Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
No? That would require far more self-awareness than he's equipped for? :-PP
Catherine! :D
:D
Yeah, she and Heinrich are two peas in a pod! They would make excellent Macbeths...for a while.
Btw, the whole "taking the heir away from its parents to be raised as the monarch sees fit" thing that Fritz did to FW2 with such stellar results *cough* was something that was both done to Catherine and by Catherine: Elizaveta took Catherine's son Paul (of the dubious paternity) away at birth, and Catherine similarly later took Paul's son Alexander, her grandson, away.
Dysfunctional families: not limited to Hohenzollerns and Hanovers!
okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
THIS. I mean, assuming Fritz is poisoned at the nadir of Prussian fortunes in the Seven Years' War, it spares Heinrich from having to feel bored without him. Even leaving aside the responsibilities of regency, his wife will keep him on his toes. Never a dull moment! :D