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Either Fritz's memory or mine is faulty here
It's Fritz. Doesn't surprise me, since even decades later, Lucchesini remarks on the fact that Fritz' Horace appreciation is limited by the fact he knowly knows the odes via French translation. And it's in the odes that Horace gives enough descriptions of his villa to make people wonder where the place was from the Renaissance onwards and eventually succeed; finding it was a well documented effort since Renaissance times. In Epistles 1.10) that his villa was next to the sanctuary of the Sabine goddess, Vacuna. Lucas Holstenius (a mid-17th century geographer and a librarian at the Vatican Library) identified the sanctuary with the temple of the goddess Victory mentioned in the inscription, and he showed that the Romans associated the Sabine deity with their goddess Victoria. At a guess, this Victory goddess bit is why young King Fritz wants a Horace like villa.
Now, as you say, Cicero''s Villa is in Tusculum. Horace's is not, and was never believed to be - he gives enough markers to where it was for people to eventually find it, and Tusculum is not in (former) Sabine territory. So I'm thinking Fritz simply confused his ancient Roman villas, aided by the fact he's never been in Italy and Italian geography probably isn't high on his list of priorities early in the Silesian wars.
It's also interesting that there's the "you will not follow any orders I give in captivity" line in there. Clearly he believes that he would cave under pressure and sign orders that as a free man he wouldn't want followed, no matter what the cost to him. His experience caving in Küstrin might be informing this decision. At any rate, it's very psychologically revealing.
Oh absolutely. Küstrin is only a decade away, he hasn't been a monarch with absolute power for long, he still remembers that he's been made to submit completely (minus the argument about the predestination doctrine). (And then continue to submit in more minor ways by the very fact he had to keep on Dad's good side for the next ten years.)
long precedent for honorable exchanges of prisoners in warfare.
Not to mention that Fritz himself had Seckendorff kidnapped for the very purpose of exchanging him in just such a manner. I like the idea that a combination of inherent paranoia and a misunderstanding causing him to respond badly and thereby ruining the prisoner exchange, though.
Does Heinrich exchange Joseph for Silesia? The problem here is that unlike an exchange of prisoners, which can happen at once to both party's satisfaction, an exchange of person versus territory under duress can be nullified easily after the fact. I mean: even in Silesia 1, British advice to MT was to concede to Fritz what he wants to have for now and later when she's in a better possession point out she only did so under duress and her agreement is not worth anything. What with Fritz being the armed highwayman here. Which is sort of what she did and hence Silesia 2. So if I were Heinrich, I'd want something more than yet another "okay, you can have Silesia" which could easily be broken as soon as Joseph is back on Austrian soil.
Hmm. MT additionally offers to have the Reichstag okay a change in the order of succession for Prussia? No, not to make Heinrich King, to depose Frit and make young FW King now and acknowledge him as such through all the princes on Austria's side. This means Heinrich doesn't look like a self interested ursurper, and hey, Fritz always said he was planning to retire in favour of AW or AW's heirs anyway after the war.
Doesn't surprise me, since even decades later, Lucchesini remarks on the fact that Fritz' Horace appreciation is limited by the fact he knowly knows the odes via French translation.
Plus confusing Quintus Icilius (not a Roman name as far as I know) with Quintus Caecilius, and as you pointed out, Pliny with Ovid (I think you're right about that, and good catch). Thank you for expanding on the Italian archaeology; I remembered Horace's villa being identifiable because he'd provided enough description to track it down, but none of the other detail.
Not to mention that Fritz himself had Seckendorff kidnapped for the very purpose of exchanging him in just such a manner.
I was thinking of exactly this, which is why I tried to come up with a reason for him to refuse something other than an explicit prisoner exchange.
Does Heinrich exchange Joseph for Silesia?
Now, that's a whoooole different kettle of fish. I like your idea about changing the succession! Fritz's "but I'm going to retire, I swear!" comes back to bite him. :P
Does Heinrich give him Rheinsberg back? The other-self symmetry of, "Here, I have a country to run" would be amaaaazing.
Also, given Fritz's memories of a happier time at Rheinsberg, and the fact that he talked about retiring so often because he *knew* that being king wasn't making him happy, even if he never could shake his addiction to control (and btw it behaves exactly like an addiction)...maybe after some years of hating and resenting the path that led him back here, he discovers that he is actually happier where he is, brushing up on his Romans and hanging out with friends. And of course he rewrites history so that it was his idea all along--Henri de Catt can testify, after all!--because everything that works out has to be *Fritz's* idea.
Plus confusing Quintus Icilius (not a Roman name as far as I know) with Quintus Caecilius, and as you pointed out, Pliny with Ovid (I think you're right about that, and good catch). Thank you for expanding on the Italian archaeology; I remembered Horace's villa being identifiable because he'd provided enough description to track it down, but none of the other detail.
Not to mention that Fritz himself had Seckendorff kidnapped for the very purpose of exchanging him in just such a manner.
I was thinking of exactly this, which is why I tried to come up with a reason for him to refuse something other than an explicit prisoner exchange.
Does Heinrich exchange Joseph for Silesia?
Now, that's a whoooole different kettle of fish. I like your idea about changing the succession! Fritz's "but I'm going to retire, I swear!" comes back to bite him. :P
Does Heinrich give him Rheinsberg back? The other-self symmetry of, "Here, I have a country to run" would be amaaaazing.
Also, given Fritz's memories of a happier time at Rheinsberg, and the fact that he talked about retiring so often because he *knew* that being king wasn't making him happy, even if he never could shake his addiction to control (and btw it behaves exactly like an addiction)...maybe after some years of hating and resenting the path that led him back here, he discovers that he is actually happier where he is, brushing up on his Romans and hanging out with friends. And of course he rewrites history so that it was his idea all along--Henri de Catt can testify, after all!--because everything that works out has to be *Fritz's* idea.
Oh, I'm sure Fritz was unhappy about her not being a queen and thought she married beneath her. I'm just not on board with the idea that he stopped caring about her because she wasn't going to be a queen, and he was only interested in queens.
Fritz gets told the King will be displeased if he doesn't keep a distance to Wilhelmine, and Wilhelmine gets told it's all due to Fritz and the King is really rooting for her.
Agreed, but then Fritz gets told not to be so cold toward her, by the same person (indirectly) who told him to set up boundaries. So if this account is correct, he's definitely getting mixed messages from above. I agree it's deliberate, my "make up your mind" was from Fritz's POV.
Because there's obviously been a lifelong policy of separating them, even predating Küstrin, and yes, that letter where he's to be told no one in Berlin cares just makes me so angry. As does Lavisse's, "The problem isn't FW, the problem is that Fritz doesn't actually care about anything except his future greatness! Which I, as a post-Franco-Prussian War Frenchman, have some Opinions about."
So: I think the best one can say is that Grumbkow & FW temporarily succeeded in that they did introduce some emotional enstrangement, but they never managed complete separation, and eventually the two found each other again.
Agreed. Those poor kids. :(
And then Fritz has to go and isolate his nephew in turn. Which I don't think is roleplaying à la forcing Heinrich to get married, but just straightforward control issues that happen to display a complete lack of empathy for someone being put through something that he should remember caused him pain.
Anna Amalia, Mom of the Year despite not having had one, you are kind of amazing.
Fritz gets told the King will be displeased if he doesn't keep a distance to Wilhelmine, and Wilhelmine gets told it's all due to Fritz and the King is really rooting for her.
Agreed, but then Fritz gets told not to be so cold toward her, by the same person (indirectly) who told him to set up boundaries. So if this account is correct, he's definitely getting mixed messages from above. I agree it's deliberate, my "make up your mind" was from Fritz's POV.
Because there's obviously been a lifelong policy of separating them, even predating Küstrin, and yes, that letter where he's to be told no one in Berlin cares just makes me so angry. As does Lavisse's, "The problem isn't FW, the problem is that Fritz doesn't actually care about anything except his future greatness! Which I, as a post-Franco-Prussian War Frenchman, have some Opinions about."
So: I think the best one can say is that Grumbkow & FW temporarily succeeded in that they did introduce some emotional enstrangement, but they never managed complete separation, and eventually the two found each other again.
Agreed. Those poor kids. :(
And then Fritz has to go and isolate his nephew in turn. Which I don't think is roleplaying à la forcing Heinrich to get married, but just straightforward control issues that happen to display a complete lack of empathy for someone being put through something that he should remember caused him pain.
Anna Amalia, Mom of the Year despite not having had one, you are kind of amazing.
Yes, he gets Rheinsberg back. (Though Heinrich is going to miss it, he loved that place as much as Fritz did.) Mind you, while I do think retirement could turn out to be the best thing ever to hoppen to Fritz at this point, finally freeing him from his self chosen galley, I would like to point out that MT's offer is only her public plan. Don't forget, in secret, she's sent the Chevalier d'Eon on a rescue mission, and of course if the Chevalier does manage to rescue Joseph, then everything is off the table.
If we don't want to make Fritz too stubborn, he can even agree to the prisoner's exchange, but then before it can happen, in the eleventh hour the Chevalier rescues Joseph and Fritz is back in Austrian captivity. Though MT mmight remember that offer of Young King FW/Regent Heinrich + Retired For Good To Rheinsberg Fritz = Peace once Voltaire's campaign really takes off and she decides this whole Fritz on trial thing is just more trouble than it's worth, still a bad precedent, and did that scoundrel Voltaire really just threaten to publish a trashy tell all about her court, co-starring beloved husband's mistresses (painful, but has happened once or twice before) and beloved daughter-in-law carrying on with beloved daughter (no way!)? (Seydlitz picked something up from Isabella's reaction and told Voltaire.)
If we don't want to make Fritz too stubborn, he can even agree to the prisoner's exchange, but then before it can happen, in the eleventh hour the Chevalier rescues Joseph and Fritz is back in Austrian captivity. Though MT mmight remember that offer of Young King FW/Regent Heinrich + Retired For Good To Rheinsberg Fritz = Peace once Voltaire's campaign really takes off and she decides this whole Fritz on trial thing is just more trouble than it's worth, still a bad precedent, and did that scoundrel Voltaire really just threaten to publish a trashy tell all about her court, co-starring beloved husband's mistresses (painful, but has happened once or twice before) and beloved daughter-in-law carrying on with beloved daughter (no way!)? (Seydlitz picked something up from Isabella's reaction and told Voltaire.)
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
*nod* Quite possible.
Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
*nod* Quite possible.
Wait, Fritz's memoirs are not even in English?? *checks the interwebs quickly* I see Catt's memoirs but not Fritz's???? okay, this is super weird to me!
But yes, I will report back on the music aspects. I have one book I have to finish (not this-fandom-related) before I can start on the Blanning, though :)
But yes, I will report back on the music aspects. I have one book I have to finish (not this-fandom-related) before I can start on the Blanning, though :)
Hoffbauer does in fact go endlessly on and on about possible locations from which Fritz could and could not have seen the execution
Clearly Hoffbauer and mildred are kindred spirits and need a time machine so they can get together and match up data, lol!
Clearly Hoffbauer and mildred are kindred spirits and need a time machine so they can get together and match up data, lol!
Thank you for the detailed explanation!
also, I admit I really really love kneeling (and hand kissing and all the rest of it) and when people kneel and what it says about their loyalty to do all those thingsespecially in fic so this is definitely all stuff I have major tropey interests in :D
also, I admit I really really love kneeling (and hand kissing and all the rest of it) and when people kneel and what it says about their loyalty to do all those things
AHAHAHA this is awesome, especially Oh, I've got a monument at Rheinsberg in mind. It may not be what you're expecting.
And because Fritz has never been the world's greatest listener once he gets an idea into his head, they never have the chance to explain that it's an unofficial prisoner exchange.
omg this is so Fritz though
And because Fritz has never been the world's greatest listener once he gets an idea into his head, they never have the chance to explain that it's an unofficial prisoner exchange.
omg this is so Fritz though
Re: Katte at Küstrin: The Theodor Hoffbauer Version
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mildred_of_midgard
2020-03-09 09:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, they might be? I just haven't found them. He wrote two different sets of memoirs, btw, one for the first two Silesian wars and one for the third (the Seven Years' War). There's also the memoirs of the House of Brandenburg, which is another highly biased account of Prussian history up to Fritz's time (1740s).
I see Catt's memoirs but not Fritz's???? okay, this is super weird to me!
Admittedly I haven't read them. But from descriptions and my occasional use of them in French as a reference source, I gather they're more like Julius Caesar's Commentaries than Wilhelmine's or Catt's memoirs: a third-person account of how the King won his wars and how the King is a great general and how the King is responsible for all the Prussian victories, to the point where Heinrich felt the need to annotate the margins with outraged comments about how it is all LIES. And then build an obelisk as his refutation.
I gather they're really military and political history, neither highly accurate, nor even as exciting as Catt's as historical novels go. Most of the people who care deeply about Fritz's version of Fritz's battles probably already read German or French, which is why if there is an English translation, it's hard to find. That said, they are on my reading list, but only after I've read enough military history to be able to read them critically (at which point I may be back at work and have moved onto other things). In sum, they may not be of great interest to you, but if you find translations, let me know. There may be good stuff in there that nobody notices because nobody reads them cover-to-cover.
Things that have been translated into English include the Anti-Machiavel (which I haven't read in twenty years and should acquire a copy of and reread, preferably after brushing up on Machiavelli himself), and a book-length set of excerpt from his instructions to his generals, which I own and is on my list to reread as soon as I can concentrate enough to read books again.
Ideally I would beef up my French and open up whole new vistas, and I occasionally toy with the idea, but I need to fix my concentration first, and by the time that happens, I'll be back at work and probably back to Classics, or at least back to writing Fritzian fanfic. Until then, OCR cleanup it is!
(*Ideally ideally* I would beef up my German, but let's be realistic: I will be out of this fandom before I get around to it. I'd rather know German than French, but I'm closer to reading proficiency in French, so it's more likely to happen.)
I see Catt's memoirs but not Fritz's???? okay, this is super weird to me!
Admittedly I haven't read them. But from descriptions and my occasional use of them in French as a reference source, I gather they're more like Julius Caesar's Commentaries than Wilhelmine's or Catt's memoirs: a third-person account of how the King won his wars and how the King is a great general and how the King is responsible for all the Prussian victories, to the point where Heinrich felt the need to annotate the margins with outraged comments about how it is all LIES. And then build an obelisk as his refutation.
I gather they're really military and political history, neither highly accurate, nor even as exciting as Catt's as historical novels go. Most of the people who care deeply about Fritz's version of Fritz's battles probably already read German or French, which is why if there is an English translation, it's hard to find. That said, they are on my reading list, but only after I've read enough military history to be able to read them critically (at which point I may be back at work and have moved onto other things). In sum, they may not be of great interest to you, but if you find translations, let me know. There may be good stuff in there that nobody notices because nobody reads them cover-to-cover.
Things that have been translated into English include the Anti-Machiavel (which I haven't read in twenty years and should acquire a copy of and reread, preferably after brushing up on Machiavelli himself), and a book-length set of excerpt from his instructions to his generals, which I own and is on my list to reread as soon as I can concentrate enough to read books again.
Ideally I would beef up my French and open up whole new vistas, and I occasionally toy with the idea, but I need to fix my concentration first, and by the time that happens, I'll be back at work and probably back to Classics, or at least back to writing Fritzian fanfic. Until then, OCR cleanup it is!
(*Ideally ideally* I would beef up my German, but let's be realistic: I will be out of this fandom before I get around to it. I'd rather know German than French, but I'm closer to reading proficiency in French, so it's more likely to happen.)
Edited 2020-03-09 21:05 (UTC)
The above comment in no way signals who was responsible for the inclusion of Fredersdorf kneeling in "Counterpoint", nope, not at all. :P (I love it too, just didn't think of it for this particular fic!)
Oh, I think their minds are completely made up. To "separate those two by any means, ensure they both look to the King, not each other, for validation", so Fritz gets told the King will be displeased if he doesn't keep a distance to Wilhelmine, and Wilhelmine gets told it's all due to Fritz and the King is really rooting for her.
:(((((((( To this part, but really the whole comment. Poor Wilhelmine and Fritz :( And at least they found each other again <3
(One big difference between memoir writer Wilhelmine and letter writer Wilhelmine is that the letters showcase her sense of humor far more, which is due to the nature of the genre, I suppose.)
It's what I love about the bits you've transcribed for me <3 I really need to get to Wilhelmine's letters, at least the few that are in Trier that mildred could translate. After Blanning, maybe :)
:(((((((( To this part, but really the whole comment. Poor Wilhelmine and Fritz :( And at least they found each other again <3
(One big difference between memoir writer Wilhelmine and letter writer Wilhelmine is that the letters showcase her sense of humor far more, which is due to the nature of the genre, I suppose.)
It's what I love about the bits you've transcribed for me <3 I really need to get to Wilhelmine's letters, at least the few that are in Trier that mildred could translate. After Blanning, maybe :)
I was glad you went there! It was like getting permission from someone else to indulge my loyalty kink, haha.
Yes, he gets Rheinsberg back. (Though Heinrich is going to miss it, he loved that place as much as Fritz did.)
True. He renovated it heavily, and it's not going to look the same as when Fritz lived there. Now I'm imagining Fritz demanding funds to re-renovate, lol. But Heinrich can build his own palace! There's all these funds for the Neues Palais that won't be needed any more. (cahn, construction was begun as soon as the Seven Years' War ended.)
retirement could turn out to be the best thing ever to hoppen to Fritz at this point, finally freeing him from his self chosen galley
But first he has to have the initial angry-letter-writing campaign about how everything that happened was extremely everyone else's fault. :P But when he's not writing letters and going crazy over not being in control, he's spending his time doing the things he actually wants to do in life, and eventually the momentum builds up to where it's the best thing for him.
If we don't want to make Fritz too stubborn, he can even agree to the prisoner's exchange, but then before it can happen, in the eleventh hour the Chevalier rescues Joseph and Fritz is back in Austrian captivity.
I like this, and I like it even more if we can work in some resistance from Fritz along the lines of "You're not giving away anything important, right? We're still fighting this war? Oh, it's a prisoner exchange. Okay. Cool. And the prisoner is of sufficiently high rank that I'm not being insulted? Just making sure."
did that scoundrel Voltaire really just threaten to publish a trashy tell all about her court, co-starring beloved husband's mistresses (painful, but has happened once or twice before) and beloved daughter-in-law carrying on with beloved daughter (no way!)? (Seydlitz picked something up from Isabella's reaction and told Voltaire.)
Justice through trashy tell-alls! White Knight to the rescue, Voltaire-style. OMG, this is great. Do it!
I like it, I like all of it. Fritz puts up some resistance and only agrees to the exchange once he's assured it meets all of his criteria, the Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not--Voltaire writes trashy tell-alls, Europe gets peace, Fritz gets his moderately happy ending, perfect!
True. He renovated it heavily, and it's not going to look the same as when Fritz lived there. Now I'm imagining Fritz demanding funds to re-renovate, lol. But Heinrich can build his own palace! There's all these funds for the Neues Palais that won't be needed any more. (
cahn, construction was begun as soon as the Seven Years' War ended.)retirement could turn out to be the best thing ever to hoppen to Fritz at this point, finally freeing him from his self chosen galley
But first he has to have the initial angry-letter-writing campaign about how everything that happened was extremely everyone else's fault. :P But when he's not writing letters and going crazy over not being in control, he's spending his time doing the things he actually wants to do in life, and eventually the momentum builds up to where it's the best thing for him.
If we don't want to make Fritz too stubborn, he can even agree to the prisoner's exchange, but then before it can happen, in the eleventh hour the Chevalier rescues Joseph and Fritz is back in Austrian captivity.
I like this, and I like it even more if we can work in some resistance from Fritz along the lines of "You're not giving away anything important, right? We're still fighting this war? Oh, it's a prisoner exchange. Okay. Cool. And the prisoner is of sufficiently high rank that I'm not being insulted? Just making sure."
did that scoundrel Voltaire really just threaten to publish a trashy tell all about her court, co-starring beloved husband's mistresses (painful, but has happened once or twice before) and beloved daughter-in-law carrying on with beloved daughter (no way!)? (Seydlitz picked something up from Isabella's reaction and told Voltaire.)
Justice through trashy tell-alls! White Knight to the rescue, Voltaire-style. OMG, this is great. Do it!
I like it, I like all of it. Fritz puts up some resistance and only agrees to the exchange once he's assured it meets all of his criteria, the Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not--Voltaire writes trashy tell-alls, Europe gets peace, Fritz gets his moderately happy ending, perfect!
Re: Katte at Küstrin: The Theodor Hoffbauer Version
mildred_of_midgard
2020-03-09 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I did not at all start coughing when she said "endlessly go on and on." *innocent look*
Sadly,selenak has to be my one-way time machine.
Sadly,
selenak has to be my one-way time machine. he still remembers that he's been made to submit completely (minus the argument about the predestination doctrine)
Even that. He held out longer than with some other things, but during FW's visit in August 1731, he was on his knees kissing his father's feet and rejecting predestination. (Out loud. He continued expressing belief in it long after his father was dead.)
Even that. He held out longer than with some other things, but during FW's visit in August 1731, he was on his knees kissing his father's feet and rejecting predestination. (Out loud. He continued expressing belief in it long after his father was dead.)
English translations of:
Memoirs of the House of Brandenburg - First sentence: "Nothing ought to give us so great a distaste for writing, as the multitude of books with which Europe is overwhelmed."
The Silesian Wars memoirs are somewhere on archive.org, but I don't have time to search for them at the moment.
A History of the Seven Years War - Part 1
A History of the Seven Years War - Part 2
Thomas Holcraft also translated much of Friedrich's letters into English. Just linking his correspondence with Jordan as an example. I've just noticed it includes Friedrich's first assessment of Maupertuis: "Maupertuis is arrived. He is a clever fellow, and amiable in conversation; but still a hundred points below Algarotti."
Additionally:
1999 translation of excerpts of Friedrich's various writings on war - of which "over half of the present volume is translated into English for the first time".
Avi Lifschitz at Oxford is releasing the first modern English collection of Friedrich's philosophical writings.later this year.
Not exactly...? Friedrich needs to have at least a veneer of critical self-judgement for his writing to be taken seriously in his public role as "historian". It would be rather silly of him to present himself as responsible for all of Prussia's victories, since his credibility would be dashed, and he himself would come across as self-centred if he praised his own exploits too highly. His writing style rather depends on who his target audience is for any given piece; is he writing to the public (Anti-Machiavel, Memoirs of the Silesian and Seven Years Wars), is he writing for the eyes of his successor only (Political Testaments - which weren't published in full, unedited form until 1920), or is he writing for his own amusement (much of his raunchier and blasphemous works are only distributed to a few men who he is close with as a sign of trust in his own lifetime). You'll find his most honest war-focused writing in the Political Testaments. As for his war memoirs intended for the public, while I obviously would not trust them from the outset, nor do I know enough about the intricacies of the war to give an accurate assessment about their reliability, he does write much about other generals and majors, obviously not to the extent that Henry wished and he honestly should have done. He completely skips over his fallout with Wilhelm after the battle of Kolin, for example, and is hesitant to outright condemn himself from what I've skimmed. To give a typical example of his style of credit-giving in an excerpt from the Seven Years War memoirs part 1: "We have already said that the Prussians lost persons highly worthy to be regretted, because of their great merit. Such were marshal Keith, prince Francis of Brunswick, and General Geist. Most of the generals were either hurt or wounded; as were the king, the margrave Charles, and many others whom it would be too tedious to name."
While I was doing some quick looking around, I came across this interesting book exploring the context, circumstances and reliability of the memoirs of Wilhelmina of Prussia, Princess of Orange (August Wilhelm's daughter). Most of the pages concerning her are available in the preview on Google Books.
You all know probably about these things already, but I'll copy-paste some quotes. It's interesting to see just how flawed the scholarship we look at really is, with historians relying on censored and truncated releases of primary sources all too often, and almost never mentioning that these releases were censored, or even worse, not realising it themselves:
About Volz' version of the memoirs (indicative of Volz' tendency to censor text):
"The texts have been carefully transcribed and annotated. In several places, however, Volz omits text – he does state this, but in a way that suggests that only single sentences and unimportant details were struck. In reality however, sometimes large sections of text have been left out, usually concerning a matter potentially embarrassing for the Hohenzollern family: the first marriage of Wilhelmina’s brother, the crown prince, to their cousin Elisabeth of Brunswick. Elisabeth refused to conform to the court’s restrictions, probably had lovers, one of whom may have fathered her child, and was even suspected of planning a coup d’état , after Catharine’s recent example in Russia(...) Elisabeth was arrested and in a secret trial condemned to lifelong imprisonment in the Castle of Stettin. This affair was quickly and sternly covered-up by Frederick; the trial records were sealed and have remained so." [Even to this day! The last attempt to access the case files was in 1924, according to this book, released in 2011. Lack of interest in the matter stopping 21st century historians, or is it the archives themselves still?]
"There were also women at court who kept diaries. Those that have been handed down to us are from the lady-in-waiting Sophie von Voss and from princess Wilhelmina (“Prinzessin Heinrich”), the wife of Wilhelmina’s uncle Henry of Prussia."
"These writings were not intended for publication, and sometimes not even for the family’s eyes. Wilhelmina of Bayreuth probably gave the manuscript of her memoirs to her personal physician, for it surfaced again in the hands of his descendants."
"Upon another visit in 1804 she went deeply into the fatal conflict of 1757 between her father and king Frederick, and at her request her uncle Ferdinand sent her a copy of the file that Augustus William had compiled himself to plead his case. Later she made a request for her father’s letters. [Where are his letters now? Many of them still have never been released, right?] In 1802 she corresponded, from England, on the past, with her cousin Elisabeth, who was still locked up in Stettin."
"For example, there were several handwritten copies of chamberlain Pöllnitz’s memoirs on the Hohenzollern court in circulation; Pöllnitz himself used to read out from his manuscript as entertainment to his friends. (...) It is quite possible that personal writings that could bring dishonour to or doubt on the legitimacy of the royal or princely family – and the boundary here between private and public was wafer-thin – were suppressed by the family. This happened various times within the Hohenzollern family. For example, the first two volumes of chamberlain Pöllnitz’s memoirs on the Prussian court, sprinkled with gossip, were published, but the third part – concerning the court of King Frederick – never appeared. It was in the personal possession of “a prince of the blood,” presumably Wilhelmina’s brother, later King Frederick William II, who refused to release it, and it never has surfaced."
Memoirs of the House of Brandenburg - First sentence: "Nothing ought to give us so great a distaste for writing, as the multitude of books with which Europe is overwhelmed."
The Silesian Wars memoirs are somewhere on archive.org, but I don't have time to search for them at the moment.
A History of the Seven Years War - Part 1
A History of the Seven Years War - Part 2
Thomas Holcraft also translated much of Friedrich's letters into English. Just linking his correspondence with Jordan as an example. I've just noticed it includes Friedrich's first assessment of Maupertuis: "Maupertuis is arrived. He is a clever fellow, and amiable in conversation; but still a hundred points below Algarotti."
Additionally:
1999 translation of excerpts of Friedrich's various writings on war - of which "over half of the present volume is translated into English for the first time".
Avi Lifschitz at Oxford is releasing the first modern English collection of Friedrich's philosophical writings.later this year.
a third-person account of how the King won his wars and how the King is a great general and how the King is responsible for all the Prussian victories,
Not exactly...? Friedrich needs to have at least a veneer of critical self-judgement for his writing to be taken seriously in his public role as "historian". It would be rather silly of him to present himself as responsible for all of Prussia's victories, since his credibility would be dashed, and he himself would come across as self-centred if he praised his own exploits too highly. His writing style rather depends on who his target audience is for any given piece; is he writing to the public (Anti-Machiavel, Memoirs of the Silesian and Seven Years Wars), is he writing for the eyes of his successor only (Political Testaments - which weren't published in full, unedited form until 1920), or is he writing for his own amusement (much of his raunchier and blasphemous works are only distributed to a few men who he is close with as a sign of trust in his own lifetime). You'll find his most honest war-focused writing in the Political Testaments. As for his war memoirs intended for the public, while I obviously would not trust them from the outset, nor do I know enough about the intricacies of the war to give an accurate assessment about their reliability, he does write much about other generals and majors, obviously not to the extent that Henry wished and he honestly should have done. He completely skips over his fallout with Wilhelm after the battle of Kolin, for example, and is hesitant to outright condemn himself from what I've skimmed. To give a typical example of his style of credit-giving in an excerpt from the Seven Years War memoirs part 1: "We have already said that the Prussians lost persons highly worthy to be regretted, because of their great merit. Such were marshal Keith, prince Francis of Brunswick, and General Geist. Most of the generals were either hurt or wounded; as were the king, the margrave Charles, and many others whom it would be too tedious to name."
While I was doing some quick looking around, I came across this interesting book exploring the context, circumstances and reliability of the memoirs of Wilhelmina of Prussia, Princess of Orange (August Wilhelm's daughter). Most of the pages concerning her are available in the preview on Google Books.
You all know probably about these things already, but I'll copy-paste some quotes. It's interesting to see just how flawed the scholarship we look at really is, with historians relying on censored and truncated releases of primary sources all too often, and almost never mentioning that these releases were censored, or even worse, not realising it themselves:
About Volz' version of the memoirs (indicative of Volz' tendency to censor text):
"The texts have been carefully transcribed and annotated. In several places, however, Volz omits text – he does state this, but in a way that suggests that only single sentences and unimportant details were struck. In reality however, sometimes large sections of text have been left out, usually concerning a matter potentially embarrassing for the Hohenzollern family: the first marriage of Wilhelmina’s brother, the crown prince, to their cousin Elisabeth of Brunswick. Elisabeth refused to conform to the court’s restrictions, probably had lovers, one of whom may have fathered her child, and was even suspected of planning a coup d’état , after Catharine’s recent example in Russia(...) Elisabeth was arrested and in a secret trial condemned to lifelong imprisonment in the Castle of Stettin. This affair was quickly and sternly covered-up by Frederick; the trial records were sealed and have remained so." [Even to this day! The last attempt to access the case files was in 1924, according to this book, released in 2011. Lack of interest in the matter stopping 21st century historians, or is it the archives themselves still?]
"There were also women at court who kept diaries. Those that have been handed down to us are from the lady-in-waiting Sophie von Voss and from princess Wilhelmina (“Prinzessin Heinrich”), the wife of Wilhelmina’s uncle Henry of Prussia."
"These writings were not intended for publication, and sometimes not even for the family’s eyes. Wilhelmina of Bayreuth probably gave the manuscript of her memoirs to her personal physician, for it surfaced again in the hands of his descendants."
"Upon another visit in 1804 she went deeply into the fatal conflict of 1757 between her father and king Frederick, and at her request her uncle Ferdinand sent her a copy of the file that Augustus William had compiled himself to plead his case. Later she made a request for her father’s letters. [Where are his letters now? Many of them still have never been released, right?] In 1802 she corresponded, from England, on the past, with her cousin Elisabeth, who was still locked up in Stettin."
"For example, there were several handwritten copies of chamberlain Pöllnitz’s memoirs on the Hohenzollern court in circulation; Pöllnitz himself used to read out from his manuscript as entertainment to his friends. (...) It is quite possible that personal writings that could bring dishonour to or doubt on the legitimacy of the royal or princely family – and the boundary here between private and public was wafer-thin – were suppressed by the family. This happened various times within the Hohenzollern family. For example, the first two volumes of chamberlain Pöllnitz’s memoirs on the Prussian court, sprinkled with gossip, were published, but the third part – concerning the court of King Frederick – never appeared. It was in the personal possession of “a prince of the blood,” presumably Wilhelmina’s brother, later King Frederick William II, who refused to release it, and it never has surfaced."
Do we ever post the Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission in totem? It's in several of the sources (Preuss, Koser, et al.), and it's such a harrowing thing, but a key document, and aside from the quote of FW saying that had Fritz succeeded in his flight attempt, he'd have gone to war with Hannover, would have blamed SD and would have locked Wilhelmine away from "sun and moon" for the rest of her life, and of course the "did you seduce Katte or did Katte seduce you?", I don't think cahn has seen anything from it yet.
cahn has seen anything from it yet. . He renovated it heavily, and it's not going to look the same as when Fritz lived there. Now I'm imagining Fritz demanding funds to re-renovate, lol.
Trufax: When SD visited Rheinsberg for the first time, after Heinrich had the renovating done and had moved in, and is very proud to show it off to Mom, she sighs in delight and says: "How beautiful! Your brother has such excellent taste!"
But Heinrich can build his own palace!
Since he'll send the first few years as Regent before young FW2 comes of age, he'll probably stick to the already existing Hohenzollern Berlin and Potsdam residences (minus Sanssouci). (His own Berlin town residence didn't get finished in rl until after the 7 Years War, too; today, it forms the core of the famous Humboldt University, which would have pleased him. ) After that, well, he's not going to move into Sanssouci, though I'm sure he found it beautiful, but that would be carrying the alter ego stuff too far. And not into Wusterhausen (still owned by Fritz as per FW's testament; Heinrich inherited it only after both Fritz and AW were dead and AW's heir on the throne, FW's testament was that detailed), either. Perhaps he decides to reopen Oranienburg (AW's residence that had been closed after AW's death).
The Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not-
No doubt. Fritz is probably going to assume the Chevalier learned about Joseph's very secret location either because of sex with Heinrich (as a man) or with Seydlitz (as a woman). In reality, the Chevalier found out via old school detective work (which place that can be guarded but has no ostensible military value suddenly gets sent top soldiers as well as good food and clothing?) but did admittedly have a one night stand with Heinrich just in case and for the hell of it, so while Heinrich (correctly) denies having said anything, Fritz will never ever believe him.
I like it, I like all of it. Fritz puts up some resistance and only agrees to the exchange once he's assured it meets all of his criteria, the Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not--Voltaire writes trashy tell-alls, Europe gets peace, Fritz gets his moderately happy ending, perfect!
It occurs to me that this could even save Isabella's life. Because though MT tries to protect him from it, Joseph will find out and will be heartbroken but have the first honest conversation with his wife he's ever had. And since he's just been through the experience of being a helpless prisoner (granted, he was never afraid for his life, but there were some uncomfortable moments when one of his guards turned out to have been someone who'd lost family due to the war, with his home village burned down), and does love her, he doesn't react by becoming now a deliberate tyrant to Isabella but by withdrawing from her entirely and agreeing to lead separate lives. (Divorce is out; even in this AU, they're still 18th Century royal Catholics.) Which means no more pregnancies after the first one (that daughter exists) for Isabella, which means a general better health, and even if she does get infected in 1763, she survives it.
Conclusion: Fritz getting captured in the 7 Years War is the reverse of the trope where one event causes a horrible dysfunctional AU - it improves everyone's lives, even that of Fritz! :) (Who now even has the option of eloping with Voltaire back. If he can ever forgive him for coming to his rescue. And if Voltaire can avoid gloating too much, which, err....)
Trufax: When SD visited Rheinsberg for the first time, after Heinrich had the renovating done and had moved in, and is very proud to show it off to Mom, she sighs in delight and says: "How beautiful! Your brother has such excellent taste!"
But Heinrich can build his own palace!
Since he'll send the first few years as Regent before young FW2 comes of age, he'll probably stick to the already existing Hohenzollern Berlin and Potsdam residences (minus Sanssouci). (His own Berlin town residence didn't get finished in rl until after the 7 Years War, too; today, it forms the core of the famous Humboldt University, which would have pleased him. ) After that, well, he's not going to move into Sanssouci, though I'm sure he found it beautiful, but that would be carrying the alter ego stuff too far. And not into Wusterhausen (still owned by Fritz as per FW's testament; Heinrich inherited it only after both Fritz and AW were dead and AW's heir on the throne, FW's testament was that detailed), either. Perhaps he decides to reopen Oranienburg (AW's residence that had been closed after AW's death).
The Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not-
No doubt. Fritz is probably going to assume the Chevalier learned about Joseph's very secret location either because of sex with Heinrich (as a man) or with Seydlitz (as a woman). In reality, the Chevalier found out via old school detective work (which place that can be guarded but has no ostensible military value suddenly gets sent top soldiers as well as good food and clothing?) but did admittedly have a one night stand with Heinrich just in case and for the hell of it, so while Heinrich (correctly) denies having said anything, Fritz will never ever believe him.
I like it, I like all of it. Fritz puts up some resistance and only agrees to the exchange once he's assured it meets all of his criteria, the Chevalier gets to shine--oh, man, Heinrich is going to *hear* about that, Retired For Good to Rheinsberg (TM) or not--Voltaire writes trashy tell-alls, Europe gets peace, Fritz gets his moderately happy ending, perfect!
It occurs to me that this could even save Isabella's life. Because though MT tries to protect him from it, Joseph will find out and will be heartbroken but have the first honest conversation with his wife he's ever had. And since he's just been through the experience of being a helpless prisoner (granted, he was never afraid for his life, but there were some uncomfortable moments when one of his guards turned out to have been someone who'd lost family due to the war, with his home village burned down), and does love her, he doesn't react by becoming now a deliberate tyrant to Isabella but by withdrawing from her entirely and agreeing to lead separate lives. (Divorce is out; even in this AU, they're still 18th Century royal Catholics.) Which means no more pregnancies after the first one (that daughter exists) for Isabella, which means a general better health, and even if she does get infected in 1763, she survives it.
Conclusion: Fritz getting captured in the 7 Years War is the reverse of the trope where one event causes a horrible dysfunctional AU - it improves everyone's lives, even that of Fritz! :) (Who now even has the option of eloping with Voltaire back. If he can ever forgive him for coming to his rescue. And if Voltaire can avoid gloating too much, which, err....)
"Nothing ought to give us so great a distaste for writing, as the multitude of books with which Europe is overwhelmed."
ROTFlOL. That is golden. Thank you so much for this overview on the English-accessible Fritz writings. Also, poor Maupertuis. Captured by the Austrians, dissed by Voltaire, and even his boss and defender doesn't regard him as top of the intellectual crop. (Then again, Maupertuis suggested vivisections on prisoners, so...)
Your google book link won't work for me and tells me I maxed out my google excerpt time for this month, but:
Elisabeth, first wife of FW2, and the scandal around her arrest: gets mentioned in Lehndorff's diaries a lot, which I did quote from in my original write up of same. Lehndorff does mention - and believe - the rumor of her having planned a coup with her lovers, but I haven't seen anyone non-contemporary believe the "coup" part. (Lehndorff tends to be jump to "Messalina!" conclusions in any Queen + lover scenario pretty easily when he hears gossip about them; there are two other examples after Elisabeth.) One reason why I doubt it myself is that Fritz originally intended to send Elisabeth back to her mother, his sister Charlotte - who refused to take her and completely condemned her -, before life long banishment to Stettin (after the initial few months in Küstrin were over) became his decision. Fritz also put the blame on the entire situation squarely on future FW2's shoulders in his "he neglected her charms, and thus she started to cheat" statement which made it into the biographies I've read and was cited as being in the Histoire de mon Temps. I very much doubt he'd have done that if he'd thought Elisabeth was planning a coup, as opposed to having extramarital sex for its own sake. (Pangels quotes a similar "he neglected her charms" statement from a letter from Fritz to Charlotte, too, as an example of Fritz' generous nature, though of course she does not mention that Fritz' own record re: neglecting the charms of one's wife is, well...)
Elisabeth, btw, outlived everyone else and made sure in her will she would not be buried anywhere near her mother in Braunschweig. She understandably did not forgive Charlotte.
lifelong imprisonment in the Castle of Stettin
I would qualify the term "imprisonment" here. When Lehndorff & his second wife come through Stettin in the mid 1770s, we get this description (which also shows his attitude to Elisabeth has changed from "OMG she totally was the Prussian Messalina and wanted to kill Crown Prince Jr. with her lovers!" to "I feel sorry for her":
With some pity, I see the former Princess of Prussia, who now lives as Princess Elisabeth banished in Stettin. She has the permission to stroll around as she pleases, which she uses amply. (...) The whole distraction the Princess Elisabeth can take is visiting two or three ladies of Stettin society who can hardly be called charming. No gentleman dares to talk to her, other than the fat Duke of Bevern. She dresses in a strange manner, but as she is beautiful, everything suits her well, wherereas the ladies of Stettin who try to imitate her look absurd - two short skirts so one could confuse them with bad ballet dangers, and the heads full of curls so that they look like Medusa from afar. Whereas when I look at the Princess form afar while she strolls down the promenade, she appears like Diana to me. Her pretty little foot is visible, and her legs well above her ankle; she wears a pink corset which suits her beautifully. (...) My wife pays her respect to Princess Elisabeth and returns delighted by her, singing her praises. She claims the Princess is well content, but I can't help but think she must be unhappy.
Later Lehndorff diary entries include rumors that she has started to have affairs again (though these are only rumors he's heard, not personal observations). Ferdinand's daughter, Princess Radziwill, mentions somwewhere visiting Elisabeth and being somewhat at a loss on what to say since Elisabeth was utterly unembarrassed and not sorry at all for anything. A case probably can be made therefore for Stettin, after a while, being firstly exile/banishment rather than imprisonment and later then self chosen place of residence. I could be wrong, and I can't find a citation for it right now, but I think she had the option to leave it later and refused.
Lack of interest in the matter stopping 21st century historians, or is it the archives themselves still?]
At a guess, the former. Given that biographers in the last few decades had no problem getting at the unpublished correspondances between various Hohenzollern siblings (AW with everyone, or the Marwitz letters from the Fritz/Heinrich correspondance which had not been included in any pre WWII editions that I know of). While the scandal around the Elisabeth/FW2 divorce happpened within Fritz' lifetime, it just wasn't of much interest to even deconstructing Fritz biographers, as it had little to do with him (beyond the marriage having been his idea to begin with). And FW2 never got many biographies devoted to himself. There's one more recent mentioned in his German wiki entry, which may delve into Elisabeth as well.
Re: the unpublished AW letters in particular, recent biographers I've seen quoting from them were Ziebura, Oster, Luh; even Jessen has one letter of his to Mina (Princess Heinrich), though without looking those up, I can't tell you where they physically are (Berlin, Trier, Bayreuth?). The website devoted to Wilhelmine's France and Italian journey which I linked at Rheinsberg has his letters to and from Wilhelmine and her husband during that time online.
"There were also women at court who kept diaries. Those that have been handed down to us are from the lady-in-waiting Sophie von Voss and from princess Wilhelmina (“Prinzessin Heinrich”), the wife of Wilhelmina’s uncle Henry of Prussia."
Both get quoted amply by Ziebura in her various Hohenzollern biographies; the former (Sophie von Voss, née von Pannewitz, daughter of the FW puncher, herself object of AW romantic interest, aunt of FW2's morganatic wife Julie) is available in German in print; the same publisher who republished the original Lehndorff diary collection (i.e. the first volume without any of the subsequent ones) previously also had republished hers. This renewed the copyright in Germany, btw, which means no online accessibility for me re: the original editions. Sophie lived long enough to see Napoleon defeated, so her diaries cover many decades of Prussian court life.
Pöllnitz: Lehndorff mentions reading his unpublished memoirs repeatedly during the 1750s. Mind you, he also mentions Pöllnitz (in person, not in writing) at one point admitting he absolutely invents stuff when he feels like it.
Hohenzollern ensorship in general: was heavy, absolutely. As I mentioned elswhere, until 1918, every single historian who'd gotten access to the archives had to submit their subsequent publication for inspection and censorship. Mostly because the narrative as pointed out by Hahn that Preuss first detailed and which justified both Prussian and Hohenzollern rule over Germany.
ROTFlOL. That is golden. Thank you so much for this overview on the English-accessible Fritz writings. Also, poor Maupertuis. Captured by the Austrians, dissed by Voltaire, and even his boss and defender doesn't regard him as top of the intellectual crop. (Then again, Maupertuis suggested vivisections on prisoners, so...)
Your google book link won't work for me and tells me I maxed out my google excerpt time for this month, but:
Elisabeth, first wife of FW2, and the scandal around her arrest: gets mentioned in Lehndorff's diaries a lot, which I did quote from in my original write up of same. Lehndorff does mention - and believe - the rumor of her having planned a coup with her lovers, but I haven't seen anyone non-contemporary believe the "coup" part. (Lehndorff tends to be jump to "Messalina!" conclusions in any Queen + lover scenario pretty easily when he hears gossip about them; there are two other examples after Elisabeth.) One reason why I doubt it myself is that Fritz originally intended to send Elisabeth back to her mother, his sister Charlotte - who refused to take her and completely condemned her -, before life long banishment to Stettin (after the initial few months in Küstrin were over) became his decision. Fritz also put the blame on the entire situation squarely on future FW2's shoulders in his "he neglected her charms, and thus she started to cheat" statement which made it into the biographies I've read and was cited as being in the Histoire de mon Temps. I very much doubt he'd have done that if he'd thought Elisabeth was planning a coup, as opposed to having extramarital sex for its own sake. (Pangels quotes a similar "he neglected her charms" statement from a letter from Fritz to Charlotte, too, as an example of Fritz' generous nature, though of course she does not mention that Fritz' own record re: neglecting the charms of one's wife is, well...)
Elisabeth, btw, outlived everyone else and made sure in her will she would not be buried anywhere near her mother in Braunschweig. She understandably did not forgive Charlotte.
lifelong imprisonment in the Castle of Stettin
I would qualify the term "imprisonment" here. When Lehndorff & his second wife come through Stettin in the mid 1770s, we get this description (which also shows his attitude to Elisabeth has changed from "OMG she totally was the Prussian Messalina and wanted to kill Crown Prince Jr. with her lovers!" to "I feel sorry for her":
With some pity, I see the former Princess of Prussia, who now lives as Princess Elisabeth banished in Stettin. She has the permission to stroll around as she pleases, which she uses amply. (...) The whole distraction the Princess Elisabeth can take is visiting two or three ladies of Stettin society who can hardly be called charming. No gentleman dares to talk to her, other than the fat Duke of Bevern. She dresses in a strange manner, but as she is beautiful, everything suits her well, wherereas the ladies of Stettin who try to imitate her look absurd - two short skirts so one could confuse them with bad ballet dangers, and the heads full of curls so that they look like Medusa from afar. Whereas when I look at the Princess form afar while she strolls down the promenade, she appears like Diana to me. Her pretty little foot is visible, and her legs well above her ankle; she wears a pink corset which suits her beautifully. (...) My wife pays her respect to Princess Elisabeth and returns delighted by her, singing her praises. She claims the Princess is well content, but I can't help but think she must be unhappy.
Later Lehndorff diary entries include rumors that she has started to have affairs again (though these are only rumors he's heard, not personal observations). Ferdinand's daughter, Princess Radziwill, mentions somwewhere visiting Elisabeth and being somewhat at a loss on what to say since Elisabeth was utterly unembarrassed and not sorry at all for anything. A case probably can be made therefore for Stettin, after a while, being firstly exile/banishment rather than imprisonment and later then self chosen place of residence. I could be wrong, and I can't find a citation for it right now, but I think she had the option to leave it later and refused.
Lack of interest in the matter stopping 21st century historians, or is it the archives themselves still?]
At a guess, the former. Given that biographers in the last few decades had no problem getting at the unpublished correspondances between various Hohenzollern siblings (AW with everyone, or the Marwitz letters from the Fritz/Heinrich correspondance which had not been included in any pre WWII editions that I know of). While the scandal around the Elisabeth/FW2 divorce happpened within Fritz' lifetime, it just wasn't of much interest to even deconstructing Fritz biographers, as it had little to do with him (beyond the marriage having been his idea to begin with). And FW2 never got many biographies devoted to himself. There's one more recent mentioned in his German wiki entry, which may delve into Elisabeth as well.
Re: the unpublished AW letters in particular, recent biographers I've seen quoting from them were Ziebura, Oster, Luh; even Jessen has one letter of his to Mina (Princess Heinrich), though without looking those up, I can't tell you where they physically are (Berlin, Trier, Bayreuth?). The website devoted to Wilhelmine's France and Italian journey which I linked at Rheinsberg has his letters to and from Wilhelmine and her husband during that time online.
"There were also women at court who kept diaries. Those that have been handed down to us are from the lady-in-waiting Sophie von Voss and from princess Wilhelmina (“Prinzessin Heinrich”), the wife of Wilhelmina’s uncle Henry of Prussia."
Both get quoted amply by Ziebura in her various Hohenzollern biographies; the former (Sophie von Voss, née von Pannewitz, daughter of the FW puncher, herself object of AW romantic interest, aunt of FW2's morganatic wife Julie) is available in German in print; the same publisher who republished the original Lehndorff diary collection (i.e. the first volume without any of the subsequent ones) previously also had republished hers. This renewed the copyright in Germany, btw, which means no online accessibility for me re: the original editions. Sophie lived long enough to see Napoleon defeated, so her diaries cover many decades of Prussian court life.
Pöllnitz: Lehndorff mentions reading his unpublished memoirs repeatedly during the 1750s. Mind you, he also mentions Pöllnitz (in person, not in writing) at one point admitting he absolutely invents stuff when he feels like it.
Hohenzollern ensorship in general: was heavy, absolutely. As I mentioned elswhere, until 1918, every single historian who'd gotten access to the archives had to submit their subsequent publication for inspection and censorship. Mostly because the narrative as pointed out by Hahn that Preuss first detailed and which justified both Prussian and Hohenzollern rule over Germany.
Edited 2020-03-10 07:29 (UTC)
Then again, Maupertuis suggested vivisections on prisoners, so..
Wait... what? :/ When was this suggestion? My familiarity with Maupertuis only extends to his scientific endeavors (they influence Friedrich's scientific beliefs, which I want to post about at some point when I have more time) and his quarrel with Voltaire.
Re: Google book. My memory is failing me again, because I have read your write-up, but the passages about Elizabeth slipped my mind. Thank you for the write-up. I'd actually discovered the book because I was looking for information concerning the original manuscript of Lehndorff's diary - Giles MacDonogh had written on his blog that "both Trakehnen and Steinort seem to have miraculously survived [the Second World War] in some form, although the latter lost all its contents, even the manuscript of Ernst Ahasverus Lehndorff’s diary" so I guess it was destroyed.
Both get quoted amply by Ziebura in her various Hohenzollern biographies
I wish there were English versions, or just digital German versions of Ziebura's works so I could read them. And digital versions of the full Hohenzollern sibling correspondences! Alas, it is not to be.
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