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Aw, thanks. <3. Note that back when all my fictional speculating started, with the scenario for Fritz: The TV Show for five seasons, I did bring Katte's ghost back in s5 as well. Let's face it, if you're covering Fritz for longer than Küstrin, it's pretty much the only way in which Katte gets to have some narrative space beyond a short part of it.
Not that I expect the musical to go into depth with this, because, you know, musical, meaning most stage time will be covered by songs, not dialogue, but I do find the Katte & Old Fritz combination a challenging and intriguing dramatic premise to pull off, if, that is, one has Katte as an actual character as opposed to a part of Fritz' imagination (in the way the tv show Six Feet Under uses its "ghosts" to comment as a post modern way to replace the dramatic monologue about one's innner state). I know the Mobster AU writer has done it, but that's a Fritz who actually has had therapy and has a current good life, and the one significant relationship he's in - with AU Algarotti - is encouraging and functional, and hence this old Fritz is already in a very different emoitonal and psychological state than the real deal would have been in the 80s (or even in the 70s, if you want to have ghostly Katte show up earlier). Because if ghostly Katte is an actual person, not a fragment of imagination, and if he shows up for longer than just to bring Fritz peace, wouldn't he be bound to have OPINIONS on the various people in Fritz' life and Fritz' relationships with them?
Let's be real. If Wilhelmine fell for Katte and let it be known, the three of them would have jumped all over a ménage à trois.
So what you're saying is that Grumbkow in Fiat Justitia has a point? ;)
Not that I expect the musical to go into depth with this, because, you know, musical, meaning most stage time will be covered by songs, not dialogue, but I do find the Katte & Old Fritz combination a challenging and intriguing dramatic premise to pull off, if, that is, one has Katte as an actual character as opposed to a part of Fritz' imagination (in the way the tv show Six Feet Under uses its "ghosts" to comment as a post modern way to replace the dramatic monologue about one's innner state). I know the Mobster AU writer has done it, but that's a Fritz who actually has had therapy and has a current good life, and the one significant relationship he's in - with AU Algarotti - is encouraging and functional, and hence this old Fritz is already in a very different emoitonal and psychological state than the real deal would have been in the 80s (or even in the 70s, if you want to have ghostly Katte show up earlier). Because if ghostly Katte is an actual person, not a fragment of imagination, and if he shows up for longer than just to bring Fritz peace, wouldn't he be bound to have OPINIONS on the various people in Fritz' life and Fritz' relationships with them?
Let's be real. If Wilhelmine fell for Katte and let it be known, the three of them would have jumped all over a ménage à trois.
So what you're saying is that Grumbkow in Fiat Justitia has a point? ;)
There must have been different versions floating around. Maybe Heinrich's boyfriends talked. :P
Always a possibility, since I doubt Büsching talked to Heinrich the Anti himself. He's a devoted fan, spelling "He" for Fritz with capital letters all the time. (Which wasn't done, unless you were using the third person singular in direct address, or you were talking of the Almighty.)
. I also wondered if it might be the other way around; if Catt was reading the 1787-1790 anecdotes and incorporating them.
Possible with other stories, bu tnot with this particular one. For starters, Catt's version is in his diary. (Complete with Heinrich getting squeezed in when everyone is hiding under the table, which is a detail not in the later memoirs version.) It also names Frau von Kameka as the courageous FW-confronting protector. The Büsching version just names an anonymous stewardess and does not mention the siblings hiding, let alone Heinrich, it only mentions FW whaling on Wilhelmine. Conclusoin: Büsching might have heard the story from Catt, but Catt definitely did not take it from Büsching. (Again: this story. He might have taken others.)
Does that mean the night of 25th was the one they spent under arrest?
Rödenbeck doesn't say, after giving us the day of arrival and where everyone was lodging, he directly skips to the departure, though a footnote sums up the incident as told by Fritz to Voltaire in a later letter.
He also says that the wife of General Nadasty had taken to Biche, wanted to keep her and had to be asked repeatedly till she was ready to hand over the dog.)
She was obviously a Very Good Dog. *pets her*
Frau von Nadasty: But you told me I could keep her! She's adorable! I want to keep her!
Nadasty: How as I to know the Robber King is dog mad? Look, we've just lost a battle. The way this guy sounds, I wouldn't put it beneath him to go after us just to get the bloody dog back, and I'm in hot water with the Queen-Empress as it is for having to explain how we had time for a raid at the camp but not to win the battle.
Austrian Trenck: Hey, don't look at me. You were the one who told me you forgot your wedding anniversary and could I please bring you something from the camp!
(Incidentally: if Nadasty's wife was so taken by Biche, Biche, at least, can't have been a dog barking at women. Just saying.)
Windspiel/Windhund: actually, they're both still in use.
Always a possibility, since I doubt Büsching talked to Heinrich the Anti himself. He's a devoted fan, spelling "He" for Fritz with capital letters all the time. (Which wasn't done, unless you were using the third person singular in direct address, or you were talking of the Almighty.)
. I also wondered if it might be the other way around; if Catt was reading the 1787-1790 anecdotes and incorporating them.
Possible with other stories, bu tnot with this particular one. For starters, Catt's version is in his diary. (Complete with Heinrich getting squeezed in when everyone is hiding under the table, which is a detail not in the later memoirs version.) It also names Frau von Kameka as the courageous FW-confronting protector. The Büsching version just names an anonymous stewardess and does not mention the siblings hiding, let alone Heinrich, it only mentions FW whaling on Wilhelmine. Conclusoin: Büsching might have heard the story from Catt, but Catt definitely did not take it from Büsching. (Again: this story. He might have taken others.)
Does that mean the night of 25th was the one they spent under arrest?
Rödenbeck doesn't say, after giving us the day of arrival and where everyone was lodging, he directly skips to the departure, though a footnote sums up the incident as told by Fritz to Voltaire in a later letter.
He also says that the wife of General Nadasty had taken to Biche, wanted to keep her and had to be asked repeatedly till she was ready to hand over the dog.)
She was obviously a Very Good Dog. *pets her*
Frau von Nadasty: But you told me I could keep her! She's adorable! I want to keep her!
Nadasty: How as I to know the Robber King is dog mad? Look, we've just lost a battle. The way this guy sounds, I wouldn't put it beneath him to go after us just to get the bloody dog back, and I'm in hot water with the Queen-Empress as it is for having to explain how we had time for a raid at the camp but not to win the battle.
Austrian Trenck: Hey, don't look at me. You were the one who told me you forgot your wedding anniversary and could I please bring you something from the camp!
(Incidentally: if Nadasty's wife was so taken by Biche, Biche, at least, can't have been a dog barking at women. Just saying.)
Windspiel/Windhund: actually, they're both still in use.
Would that everyone was so honest. :P
Possible with other stories, bu tnot with this particular one.
Right, sorry, when I mentioned it being the other way around in response to your "Again, Catt hadn't published yet, but it makes me wonder whether Büsching talked to him and that's where all this is from," the preceding sentence you had written was, "Büsching's footnote to the supposed death sentence for Fritz also contains the 'the King later looked it up at the archives, and resealed it, but did not take any revenge' tale." That's the one I was referring to with my "maybe Catt got it from Büsching" guess. We still don't know Catt's source on the archive opening, right? Though we've speculated it might have been Eichel?
Nadasty: How as I to know the Robber King is dog mad? Look, we've just lost a battle. The way this guy sounds, I wouldn't put it beneath him to go after us just to get the bloody dog back, and I'm in hot water with the Queen-Empress as it is for having to explain how we had time for a raid at the camp but not to win the battle.
Haha.
Austrian Trenck: Hey, don't look at me. You were the one who told me you forgot your wedding anniversary and could I please bring you something from the camp!
ROTFL.
(Incidentally: if Nadasty's wife was so taken by Biche, Biche, at least, can't have been a dog barking at women. Just saying.)
Maybe the dogs only bark at women in Fritz's vicinity? Maybe only because they get (perhaps unconscious) positive reinforcement for doing so? I always suspected positive reinforcement. :P
Windspiel/Windhund: actually, they're both still in use.
Oh, interesting. The internet was telling me "Windspiel" was archaic, and I figured that was why Google never once guessed that it was a dog.
Right, sorry, when I mentioned it being the other way around in response to your "Again, Catt hadn't published yet, but it makes me wonder whether Büsching talked to him and that's where all this is from," the preceding sentence you had written was, "Büsching's footnote to the supposed death sentence for Fritz also contains the 'the King later looked it up at the archives, and resealed it, but did not take any revenge' tale." That's the one I was referring to with my "maybe Catt got it from Büsching" guess. We still don't know Catt's source on the archive opening, right? Though we've speculated it might have been Eichel?
Nadasty: How as I to know the Robber King is dog mad? Look, we've just lost a battle. The way this guy sounds, I wouldn't put it beneath him to go after us just to get the bloody dog back, and I'm in hot water with the Queen-Empress as it is for having to explain how we had time for a raid at the camp but not to win the battle.
Haha.
Austrian Trenck: Hey, don't look at me. You were the one who told me you forgot your wedding anniversary and could I please bring you something from the camp!
ROTFL.
(Incidentally: if Nadasty's wife was so taken by Biche, Biche, at least, can't have been a dog barking at women. Just saying.)
Maybe the dogs only bark at women in Fritz's vicinity? Maybe only because they get (perhaps unconscious) positive reinforcement for doing so? I always suspected positive reinforcement. :P
Windspiel/Windhund: actually, they're both still in use.
Oh, interesting. The internet was telling me "Windspiel" was archaic, and I figured that was why Google never once guessed that it was a dog.
1.) Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue!
I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
Re: Ulrike, to be fair, she actually doesn't express much different opinions than Wilhelmine - sympathy in the first one and in the second one that AW needs to make the first step because Fritz is the King and it's damaging AW's reputation not to fight in this war.
I suppose so. It's probably in great degree because I already thought she was terrible :)
But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
Hee, yes. *facepalm*
I suppose so. It's probably in great degree because I already thought she was terrible :)
But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
Hee, yes. *facepalm*
Or: wait! My inner pulp fiction plotter awakens!
Heeee! Okay, this is all great. (I don't think Georgii needs to posion Suhm, I think it's actually more heartbreaking if he just exploited Fritz's feelings for Suhm.)
Heeee! Okay, this is all great. (I don't think Georgii needs to posion Suhm, I think it's actually more heartbreaking if he just exploited Fritz's feelings for Suhm.)
Hee. I admit I only love Fredersdorf/Fritz because of writing it; I tend to end up shipping the ships I write rather than the other way around :D (But also this probably has to do a bit with him being more zen in my head than yours, because I have a Thing for quietly competent and mostly-zen characters :) ) (Of course, if one really wanted to push my buttons one would write Fredersdorf as losing his cool about something! Double points if that something is "potentially failing/hurting Fritz.")
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
This is all GREAT, but this is the part where I actually cheered. Pannewitz for the win, again!!
This is all GREAT, but this is the part where I actually cheered. Pannewitz for the win, again!!
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her goto be with her first love)
Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her go
HAHAHAHA omg this is amazing I laughed so hard
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
wouldn't he be bound to have OPINIONS on the various people in Fritz' life and Fritz' relationships with them?
OMG.
Algarotti: I like him! Nice guy. Think he's up for a menage a trois with another ghost?
Fredersdorf: Oh, that's nice flute playing. OK, I guess I approve of him, but you know, he's a commoner!
Keith: Bro. You've got to talk to Pete more. Come on, this is ridiculous.
Voltaire: ...really? Really??
OMG.
Algarotti: I like him! Nice guy. Think he's up for a menage a trois with another ghost?
Fredersdorf: Oh, that's nice flute playing. OK, I guess I approve of him, but you know, he's a commoner!
Keith: Bro. You've got to talk to Pete more. Come on, this is ridiculous.
Voltaire: ...really? Really??
That all sounds about right! Though my Katte has a crazy streak just wide enough that he might be cheering on the Voltaire relationship. :P
a) who cares about him
Wilhelmine: Not me!
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here.
Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon,![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
selenak! <3
Wilhelmine: Not me!
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here.
Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon,
selenak! <3Aww! I may steal that. You have the best scenes. We'll see how the Pannewitz plot develops. It *would* be nice to have BF as nice guy supporting her, definitely. Especially since the average fic reader won't have read W's memoirs--oh, who am I kidding. All two fic readers will have read W's memoirs. :P
Edited 2020-03-30 13:16 (UTC)
Yes! I cheered too.
Because if ghostly Katte is an actual person, not a fragment of imagination, and if he shows up for longer than just to bring Fritz peace, wouldn't he be bound to have OPINIONS on the various people in Fritz' life and Fritz' relationships with them?
Yes! And that would be super interesting. And challenging. He probably wouldn't have a problem with the Silesian invasion, he is an 18th century Prussian (who preferred a Prussian war to a French peace, no less), but he might have some opinions about the ways in which Fritz turned out like FW. It would be easier for him, I think, if he was there to watch the whole development, but if he just shows up late in Fritz's life, he might be in for something of a shock.
I know the Mobster AU writer has done it, but that's a Fritz who actually has had therapy and has a current good life, and the one significant relationship he's in - with AU Algarotti - is encouraging and functional
Yes, indeed. Also, I didn't know you were reading the most recent one, where he gets reunited with Katte late in life. The one I commissioned. :D
So what you're saying is that Grumbkow in Fiat Justitia has a point? ;)
He's not completely off the mark. ;) They *didn't*, but they *could have*.
Yes! And that would be super interesting. And challenging. He probably wouldn't have a problem with the Silesian invasion, he is an 18th century Prussian (who preferred a Prussian war to a French peace, no less), but he might have some opinions about the ways in which Fritz turned out like FW. It would be easier for him, I think, if he was there to watch the whole development, but if he just shows up late in Fritz's life, he might be in for something of a shock.
I know the Mobster AU writer has done it, but that's a Fritz who actually has had therapy and has a current good life, and the one significant relationship he's in - with AU Algarotti - is encouraging and functional
Yes, indeed. Also, I didn't know you were reading the most recent one, where he gets reunited with Katte late in life. The one I commissioned. :D
So what you're saying is that Grumbkow in Fiat Justitia has a point? ;)
He's not completely off the mark. ;) They *didn't*, but they *could have*.
Edited 2020-03-29 08:07 (UTC)
Yes, the poisoning is probably too much, and the exploiting of Suhm grief and mourning is more insidious and devastating. Now we only have to figure out who does the forging of the rec letter, and why. I mean, I'm assuming Fritz would have been familiar enough with both Suhm's handwriting and that of his secretary, and if no one until Fredersdorf suspects Georgii might have made it up, Georgii must have known enough Suhm essentials to pass. (Doesn't mean intimate details, but enough so he doesn't make the mistake of describing him as bald when he had hair, that kind of thing.
Now, could be Czarina Anna's (who's then reigning unless I'm mistaken, this is pre Elizabeth's coup) Duke of Curland wants to place a spy near Fritz to have an eye on the new Prussian monarch, and they think dying Suhm + Fritz liking handsome man = chance to plant spy. But if we don't want too much international intrigue, than let's say Georgii was a husar who didn't get anywhere in Russia, really wanted that job in Prussia and one day in the tavern heard Suhm's secretary complain that all these letters from the Crown Prince/New King are headache to keep straight, expecially those with requests for BOOK LOANS. Georgii befriends the secretary who is maybe somewhat irked that Suhm, urgently hurrying home despite being in a bad state of health, intens to leave him behind, and so can persuade the secretary to forge him a rec letter. At this point he just figures it'll get him a good comisssion in the army, nothing more, and that once he's there, he'll prove himself so no one will ask Suhm whether he really knows this guy. But then the unexpected combination of Suhm actually dying and Fritz noticing Georgii when told that Suhm recced him, enough to have a short chat with him happens, and Georgii can't resist, he puts it on thick with how tight he was with Suhm etc. Presto!
Now, could be Czarina Anna's (who's then reigning unless I'm mistaken, this is pre Elizabeth's coup) Duke of Curland wants to place a spy near Fritz to have an eye on the new Prussian monarch, and they think dying Suhm + Fritz liking handsome man = chance to plant spy. But if we don't want too much international intrigue, than let's say Georgii was a husar who didn't get anywhere in Russia, really wanted that job in Prussia and one day in the tavern heard Suhm's secretary complain that all these letters from the Crown Prince/New King are headache to keep straight, expecially those with requests for BOOK LOANS. Georgii befriends the secretary who is maybe somewhat irked that Suhm, urgently hurrying home despite being in a bad state of health, intens to leave him behind, and so can persuade the secretary to forge him a rec letter. At this point he just figures it'll get him a good comisssion in the army, nothing more, and that once he's there, he'll prove himself so no one will ask Suhm whether he really knows this guy. But then the unexpected combination of Suhm actually dying and Fritz noticing Georgii when told that Suhm recced him, enough to have a short chat with him happens, and Georgii can't resist, he puts it on thick with how tight he was with Suhm etc. Presto!
Re: Fredersdorf: Prime Suspect? (or: By Jove, I've found it!)
mildred_of_midgard
2020-03-29 01:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I like it!
Chronology
May 30, 1740: FW dies.
July 1740: Fritz and Suhm finally get on the same page about Suhm definitely wanting to join his court.
Late August/early September 1740: Suhm sets out from St. Petersburg.
Approx. October 1, 1740: Suhm arrives in Warsaw, too sick to travel further.
October 17, 1740: Czarina Anna dies.
October 20, 1740: HRE Charles VI dies.
November 8, 1740: Suhm dies in Warsaw.
April 10, 1741: Mollwitz.
Summer 1741: Georgii episode (supposedly).
November (O.S.)/December 1741: Elizaveta's coup.
So not only does the Georgii/Suhm timing line up, but Fritz's grief will be fresh. GRRRR.
And yes, Anna died in late 1740. That was a year of European monarch turnover, what with her, MT's dad, and FW all going.
Chronology
May 30, 1740: FW dies.
July 1740: Fritz and Suhm finally get on the same page about Suhm definitely wanting to join his court.
Late August/early September 1740: Suhm sets out from St. Petersburg.
Approx. October 1, 1740: Suhm arrives in Warsaw, too sick to travel further.
October 17, 1740: Czarina Anna dies.
October 20, 1740: HRE Charles VI dies.
November 8, 1740: Suhm dies in Warsaw.
April 10, 1741: Mollwitz.
Summer 1741: Georgii episode (supposedly).
November (O.S.)/December 1741: Elizaveta's coup.
So not only does the Georgii/Suhm timing line up, but Fritz's grief will be fresh. GRRRR.
And yes, Anna died in late 1740. That was a year of European monarch turnover, what with her, MT's dad, and FW all going.
Excellent! Well, for us, not poor, grief-exploited Fritz. I also think it makes more sense if Georgii isn't a professional spy but just someone whose first lie escalates, snowball-wise, until he can't take anything back even if he wanted to. (Which he doesn't; until Fredersdorf starts his research, things are going fine for Georgii.)
Details: Suhm had a wife and daughter, right? Or just the daughter? Whom Fritz took care of? How old/young was she? If she's a small kid, there's no reason why she should have known some hussar her father recced, and it's not a problem. If she's a bit older, she could be perhaps the one who gives Fredersdorf the key clue (perhaps she knows Dad didn't write any rec letters for army people that last year, something like that)? Because going by how Fredersdorf was the one to organize the taking care of Keyserlingk's daughter, I'm assumung he'd also have been in charge of taking care of Suhm's relations.
Question: if Georgii was partly a pointed gesture on Fritz' part, what could Frederdorf have done which Crown Prince Fritz would have been okay with, but new King Fritz post Mollwitz would not?
Details: Suhm had a wife and daughter, right? Or just the daughter? Whom Fritz took care of? How old/young was she? If she's a small kid, there's no reason why she should have known some hussar her father recced, and it's not a problem. If she's a bit older, she could be perhaps the one who gives Fredersdorf the key clue (perhaps she knows Dad didn't write any rec letters for army people that last year, something like that)? Because going by how Fredersdorf was the one to organize the taking care of Keyserlingk's daughter, I'm assumung he'd also have been in charge of taking care of Suhm's relations.
Question: if Georgii was partly a pointed gesture on Fritz' part, what could Frederdorf have done which Crown Prince Fritz would have been okay with, but new King Fritz post Mollwitz would not?
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