Frederick the Great discussion post 9

[cahn]

...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!

I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)

Frederick the Great links

Comments

Re: Émilie du Châtelet: (Judith P. Zinsser) - synopsis

[cahn]

Yes, please do! I do want to change that last bit slightly to convey better what Zinsser actually said:

Voltaire: It's so saaaaad she was so greeeeeeat I'm the saaaaaddest it's all about meeeeee OK gonna go hang out with Fritz now
Saint-Lambert: *quietly has a breakdown and possibly was permanently affected by her death, and seems like he really loved her*
Zinsser: I like Saint-Lambert a lot more than Voltaire, okay?

(Man, she totally acknowledges Voltaire was a genius and yet... I got the distinct feeling that if she had a time machine she would go back and say, "Émilie. Girlfriend. I know he's the top intellect in Europe and being with him is a dysfunctional rush. But you are too good for him, can't you see that?")

Omg. As someone whose mother used to argue Biblical points with me as a teenager when I wanted to be a physicist, and threaten to take things away from me if I didn't back down and stop believing in non-literal interpretations of the Bible...I do not find this argument very convincing. Maybe Mom was very supportive and liked a good debate! But mine, who was actually very encouraging of my education by the standards of any 18th century female, felt horribly threatened by any debate.

It was a factual point (I forget exactly but something on the order of "was X present at this bit or not?") so not quite the same, but... yeah, I'm sitting there going "maybe she just wanted to prove her daughter wrong?" Because I definitely know people like that!

[will reply to the rest later]

Re: Émilie du Châtelet: (Judith P. Zinsser) - synopsis

[mildred_of_midgard]

Okay, done! Original post updated. (It's so nice to be able to do that. Rheinsberg is the best!)

(Man, she totally acknowledges Voltaire was a genius and yet... I got the distinct feeling that if she had a time machine she would go back and say, "Émilie. Girlfriend. I know he's the top intellect in Europe and being with him is a dysfunctional rush. But you are too good for him, can't you see that?")

She's not wrong! Unfortunately, in a society as misogynistic as Émilie's, finding a guy whose intellect is a match for yours (in another domain) and is willing to treat you roughly like an equal, often means settling. I get you, Émilie. I've been there, even without the misogyny.

It was a factual point...so not quite the same

Still. Arguing with your daughter about either fact or interpretation doesn't necessarily mean encouraging her!

Re: Émilie du Châtelet: (Judith P. Zinsser) - synopsis

[cahn]

Yeah, I think Zinsser would be happy with Émilie finding someone who maybe wasn't quite up to her intellect but was willing to treat her better than Voltaire :P That is how she looks at Saint-Lambert, I'm pretty sure. Though as I've said, I do kind of wonder if she is too invested in this "I'm going to overturn what everyone thinks" narrative and gives Saint-Lambert more awesomeness than was perhaps his actual due. As here:

Still. Arguing with your daughter about either fact or interpretation doesn't necessarily mean encouraging her!

Right?! I appreciate that she gave us her evidence, that puts her higher than many biographers, but I'm sitting here going "...I don't know that this shows what you claim it shows..."

(After reading this bio, my personal ship is Émilie/Clairaut -- it sounds like they both passionately enjoyed working on math together -- but the lack of anyone ever commenting about this makes it look to me like both of them were only interested in each other for math. Which is probably what I like about it, lol.)