cahn | Frederick the Great discussion post 9

There is in fact a delightful Fritz fandom on tumblr, full of less than historically accurate fanart and cosplaying and whatnot, and I do occasionally link to things there. In addition to the "Keeping up with the Hohenzollerns" comics that

selenak linked to (there are others, just click around), these are some of my favorites:

Be a shame if something happened to it
Oblique attack tactics (Oh, iberiandoctor, you know about the epic rap battle involving Fritz, right?)
Bavarian Succession
Military defeats are homophobic.
Orgasm poem
Whoooo's a good girl?
Gru's plan meme
Should you fight them: Prussian monarch edition (Selena points out this is not really fair to F3)
Fritz/Fredersdorf meeting
Looking good in uniform.
The musical
Fritz, are u ok?
Katte ghost
Drunk Fritz episode
Slut
My OT3 in college (Because I'm a sucker for a modern AU.)

Oh,

selenak, remember your icon post where you said there was only one color portrait of Hans Hermann online? Aside from the plaque (which I think would make a good icon), while going through my looong list of tumblr links, I found a couple more that purport to be Katte (though this tumblr user mixes up the many Keiths, so I don't give these 100% credibility unless you recognize any of them) and also some of the Katte family members:

- Katte (This one I recognize in black-and-white, so the color version is probably correct.)
- Katte and sister concert
- Dad and (maternal) Grandpa
- Dad and Mom

Hans Heinrich does have a somewhat recognizable face that looks similar to the one in the most famous portrait of him, so those might actually be him.

The Geschwisterporträt is interesting. Says the original was destroyed in 1945 (along with all the Katte family papers, I assume), but that a privately owned copy was still around. Now, I absolutely buy someone made a copy of a Katte Family painting at some point pre 1945, because of the Fritz Connection and Hans Hermann having become a tragic legend, and the 1945 date for the original being destroyed actually makes me cautiously trustful, since that fits with what Klosterhuis says happened to the papers.

Grandpa, Mum and Dad Portraits: no problem there.

Alternate Hans Herrmann: could be. My Statement wasn't based on something said in a biography, just that all the German biographies I'd read kept using the same portrait, plus the black and white one, and I figured there was a reason for that.

Oh, and I see one of the tumblrs you linked - for which much thanks! - quotes your bete noire's Nancy Mitford's biography which describes Fritz & his brother's thusly: “The Kings’ brothers were more like sons to him – Augustus William, the Prince of Prussia, was born ten, Henry fourteen and Ferdinand eighteen years after him; he was strict with them and of course, they chafed under his rule… The Prince of Prussia ( 3rd from left ), a good-natured, not very interesting fellow…Ferdinand ( 2nd from left ) was never of much account… Prince Henry ( 4th from left ), now seventeen, was a great character, to be a pleasure and a pest to Frederick all his life,”

You know, I could Fritz see agreeing on the last part. With differing emphasis on "pleasure" and "pest" depending whether there's a war going on.

the 1945 date for the original being destroyed actually makes me cautiously trustful, since that fits with what Klosterhuis says happened to the papers.

I was actually thinking the same thing, since you told us about the 1945 letter destruction. Supposedly (news article, slightly more trustworthy than tumblr) there's also a surviving 1729 (original??) of a painting *by* Hans Hermann, which I'm dying to see. I don't suppose it could possibly be the famous double portrait miniature of the royal siblings? W does say he had it with him almost right up to the end and took great care to ensure it was preserved, doesn't she?

That's what I recall, can't however look it up right now. It would, of Course, be fabulous is it still existed. (Would take a painting of flowers as well, just to see whether he could in fact paint, but, you know, in terms of priorities…)

Right? I desperately need to see this painting either way. If we haven't found out more by then, it's on my list of things to inquire about when I'm in Wust one day, aka one reason I will either need you (preferably) or some English-speaking local whose presence you have kindly arranged for me. ;)

Meant to say: agree re Heinrich, and poor AW (and Ferdinand), always getting short shrift from non-Ziebura biographers.

Yes. I mean, nobody claims either of them were military or intellectual geniuses, but after reading all the material Ziebura first pointed me towards, I think "nice but dull" is just a facile, lazy dismissal. And I don't just mean in the positive sense. Sure, AW often comes across as very sympathetic, and despite having had, with first FW and then Fritz, two incredibly imposing authority figures in his life to influence him, clearly able to form his own ethical and intellectual opinions. (Including an admiration for constitutional monarchy and limited executive powers that's quite modern.) But even Lehndorff who consistently liked and admired him doesn't deny that the one person entitled not to mourn for AW was his (pregnant) wife. Because he was just as lousy a husband to her as his brothers were to their wives. He was a three dimensional human being, capacity for pettiness and cruelty along with the more laudable traits included.

As for Ferdinand, he is the most shadowy brother, but also the one whom managed to survive all the Hohenzollern drama while maintaining reasonably good relations with all the other siblings for as long as they lived. He also managed a decent marriage (incesteous as it was), as opposed to everyone else. Not to mention that opting out of the war post AW might not have been very patriotic, but it was a sound emotional and physical survival strategy in the face of what had happened. And he, too, wasn't without the Hohenzollern ability to be ruthless - doing a 180% on Mina from friendly flirting to complete coldness, whether it was for his marriage or because of AW issues or later because of Heinrich or all of the above being a case in point.

+1 to all your points.

Not to mention that opting out of the war post AW might not have been very patriotic, but it was a sound emotional and physical survival strategy

That, and it's hard to really hold lack of patriotism against him when this was a one-man war, at base. Heinrich also wanted to just give back Silesia and let everyone go home.

Fritz: I got us into this mess, and you're all, and I do mean all*, going to help me get us out of it, at the cost of your lives, for as many years as it takes. Got it?

* Saxons whose country I invaded and occupied not excepted.

The cosplaying and less than historically accurate fan art tumblrs are charming! Even the ones in Mandarin ;) Thank you for linking to them! I am not a fan of modern AUs, at all, but I’m willing to keep an open mind for Fritz fandom. And the mystery of the misidentified Hans Heinrich portraits just strikes me as kind of sad —as you say he had a distinctive face and a distinctive look in his famous portrait, and the Katte tumblrs are interesting!

Frederick the Great discussion post 9

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