Frederick the Great discussion post 9

[cahn]

...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!

I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)

Frederick the Great links

Comments

Re: Brotherly Conduct III: The Aftermath

[cahn]

OH MY GOD

(like, I actually said those words aloud while reading this)

Radioactive, indeed.

That... I...

That letter, of course you guys had shown me excerpts before, but now that you have given me all the context...
I think Heinrich would have throttled Fritz, brother and hateship and other self and all, had they been in the same room when Heinrich had gotten that letter. by which he failed in what he owed me???? I now completely and utterly understand that obelisk, oh my God.

(I will (eventually) write a more coherent response to this, but... I wanted you to have my first stunned response.)

Re: Brotherly Conduct III: The Aftermath

[mildred_of_midgard]

The scapegoating and general inability to admit to being wrong is my least favorite thing about Fritz, and the number one thing that gets prioritized in all my "get thee to a therapist" AUs, because, hoo boy.

It's pretty bad. I think the "Think about how this will affect meeee!" was the best he could do in a condolence or get-well-soon letter, but I will not defend the scapegoating, verbal abuse, or A+ rationalization of how Fritz is never ever wrong.

FRIIIIIITZ. /o\

Re: Brotherly Conduct III: The Aftermath

[mildred_of_midgard]

Oh, cahn, you now have enough context to properly appreciate this anecdote that selenak shared a while back. Shortly after Fritz's death, Heinrich goes to Paris.

Tauentzien (boyfriend du jour, son of Fritzian general of the same name): Guess what, the Comedie Francaise plays a German drama in French translation! Let's go!
Heinrich: Why would I want to watch a German drama?
Tauentzien: Come in, it'll be fun.
*German drama starring one Frederick the Great, with the actor personally coached by Tauentzien in Fritz mannerisms and voice intonation*: Ensues
Heinrich: *sits frozen in his seat for the rest of the play, but does not run out*

And my reaction: "Why? Why would you do that to your boyfriend???"

Re: Brotherly Conduct III: The Aftermath

[selenak]

So, I checked de Catt's memoirs again because I recalled the passages about AW's death as being basically the bizarro land version, even before I read the introduction to de Catt's diary which points out that the memoirs point blank invent Fritz calling de Catt to him as soon as a relation has died. In the case of AW, in the diary de Catt only talks about him four days after the news have arrived. Equally questionable is the pasage where Fritz asks de Catt what he's heard about the fraternal argument, and de Catt replies with an only slight paraphrasing of a pamphlet making the rounds at the time - i.e. presumably older de Catt looked up said pamphlet to give his readers an exposition. And lastly, AW's private secretary years later became de Catt's brother-in-law, so the fact that in the memoirs this same man is named by Fritz as one of the only two non-evil advisors of AW when the diary contains nothing of the sort also throws a less than stellar light on the reliability of de Catt's rendition of what Fritz has to say. Not to mention that de Catt is writing the memoirs at a time when AW's son is on the throne. Still, with all these caveats in mind, what Fritz according to de Catt does say is so bizarre and out there that it almost sounds like the real deal again. Of a man feeling guilty and absolutely incapable of admitting, even to himself, that he is, in fact, guilty, so he's rewriting reality on a massive scale not seen since FW declared his killing Katte an act of mercy.

"At this news, seeing that all was lost for us, I could not contain myself. I wrote a furious letter, it is true, in this first moment of anger which made me see all my contriving at the point of dissolution. I used expressions which were too strong, I confess again, and I was sorry on that account as soon as my blood began to cool a little; but, my dear sir, put yourself for a moment in my place. Was it not cruel to see my brother, his family, the country and myself the victim of dangerous consels, because of his inclination to listen for preference to what pleased him in those incosiderate counsels given by persons who preferred their own interests to him, to mine and to the country's. My brother left for Dresden and quit the army. Doubtless, in the crisis in which I was, he would have come back to me, if certain rogues whom I know only too well had not stirred up the fire, and had not repeated to him every day that he could not remain int eh army with honor, nor forgive me the manner in which I had written to him: is not all this abominable? How they continued to embitter him during his stay at Oranienburg! A part of the horrible things vomited out against me has come back to me. I really pitied my dear brother for listening with so much complacency to this devilish race." (Here de Catt adds a footnote that the King named some names which he, of course, is too discreet to.) "If he had known it as I knew it, he would have repulsed it with horror. Ah, my friend, how unfortunate princes are, when they will only have near them people who flatter them(...)! If my brother had only had around him his aide-de-camp Hagen, his secretary Hainchelin, and another couple of such upright souls, his life at Oranienburg would have been calmer, and his heart more disposed to come back to mine. I am certain of what I state, for his heart was goodness, uprightness and charity itself. My knowledge of this made still more heartrending for me the bitterness against me which had been instilled into him. Hasty as I am, if we had been left to ourselves, we should have very soon forgotten our reciprocal wrongs."

If this isn't WTF!!! (given what actually happened, as documented not least by Fritz' own letters) enough, some time and a march later de Catt has him monologing thusly:

"My friend, the death of my brother is constantly on my mind. I busy myself in vain; his image is ever present in my soul, nad makes hell in it. I regret his kind heart, his true attachment to the country and to me, and his end, my dear sir, in the prime of life! If only diabolical creatures had not embittered him against me, if he had not been so easily persuaded and had not listened to so many treacherous speeches, if he had opened his heart to me, who knows but what he might yet be living, and if he had died, as everything dies, I should at least have the pleasant satisfaction of knowing that he had nothing against me, and he himself would not have carried off to the tomb ideas that were perhaps disagreeable. My friend, my friend, those people who sow disunion in families, whoever they may be, are to be condemned! They are monsters who should be choked. The hatred they cause between relations whom everything tends to bring together are, unfortunately, the most stubborn and violent hatred of all."

(And then he tops even this by telling de Catt that he totally would have abdicated in AW's favour post war and retired to be a philosopher full time.)

Now, aside from the handy "evil advisors" trope - which btw the rest of the gang wasn't immune to, either, only in reverse; Heinrich firmly cast Winterfeldt in the role of evil advisor, only to Fritz, not AW, for example, not that this made him excuse Fritz - the complete reality reverse here makes this actually into a confession, if you go by the law of projection. It was, of course, Fritz, who had hardened his heart, who refused to listen, who didn't open his heart to his brother, who wasn't sorry once his blood cooled down but kept on and on and on with bile. And if people who cause hate between relations are to be condemned, well, that's him. A part of him had to know that he was speaking his own judgment even while busily rewriting reality into something more acceptable for himself and de Catt. And since this is, even in de Catt's rendering, somewhat later, he has sent his first letter to Heinrich and got an icy reply back. Now AW might have forgiven him, had he lived, but he knew damn well Heinrich would not. No evil advisors necessary.

Re: Brotherly Conduct III: The Aftermath

[iberiandoctor]

Yeah, I’m over here reading this belatedly and going, What The Actual Fuck. OMG, poor Heinrich D: