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Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!
All Yuletide requests are out!
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
In looking at the Henricus Major 1745/1746 correspondence, I find that Fritz also declined to let *him* go to war, age approximately 19.
I think that might be a misunderstanding? Because von Krockow in his double biography/portrait says Heinrich already distinguished himself in the Second Silesian War at the conquest of Prague (16 September 1744), battle of Hohenfriedberg (4th June 1745), and in the battle of Soor (September 30th 1745, the very day Franz Stephan got crowned as Emperor in Frankfurt), where Heinrich alredy commanded an infantry brigade in the rank of "Generalmajor". However, once the war was over, in 1746, he wanted to go on a Grand Tour through Europe instead of still doing military (peacetime) duty and comamnding the garnison in Spandau. (Which was his unwanted post-Silesia job that he neglected so he'd be allowed to go; that was what the argument with AW quoted earlier about Heinrich's character was about.) Fritz seems to have responded with "You're younger me, of course you don't get to go on the Grand Tour!" Heinrich then tries to sell the Grand Tour as a military educational tour, he's totally just going to check out every army and fortress in Europe to further become a better soldier.
To this, Krockow quotes the following Fritz letter: Dear Brother! Indeed I had not expected to receive a letter from you. However, since you've managed to sulk for six months and live in the same house with me without looking at me or talking to me, nothing surprises me anymore. However, I wasn't prepared for the project you are suggesting. I'm not opposed to you educating yourself. But given the little interest you're currently showing in patriotic military service doesn't seem promising to me regarding your future career in the field. Moreover, the habits in foreign armies are so different from ours that I don't see what you could possibly learn.
(Heinrich: probably tries to decide whether fratricide is a valid method for making AW king)
how close were Ulrike and AW?
Good grief. He was her favourite brother. Now he seems to have been everyone's favourite brother, other than Wilhelmine's, and he certainly had become her second favourite before the end, but Ulrike was just two years older than AW, so he was the brother she'd grown up with most, and when she married - but I need to paint a larger picture here.
U: About time! I've been cast as Rokoko Alexis Carrington Colby here, with no mention of what I had to put up with, and I'm not talking about Gustav threatening to send me home to Prussia if I didn't publically declare his little bastard wasn't a bastard. Pray do me justice now!
So: Sweden was actually a parliamentary monarchy at that time, meaning the role of Swedish royalty was mainly to represent, whereas true power was in the hand of parliament, with both nobles and middle class representatives.
Swedish parliament: Prussia under its new king seems to be something we need to keep an eye on. On the other hand, we've got our eternal feud with the Russians, so... how about marrying our crown prince to one of your sisters, new Prussian King?
Fritz: You can have Amalie or Ulrike. I'd take Amalie, she's nicer.
Swedish Parliament: That clearly means Amalie would be his biddable spy. We're taking Ulrike. She seems to have a will of her own.
U: Dear beloved brother Wilhelm, my new husband is alright, but would you believe bloody Fritz hasn't seen it fit to pay me my dowry yet? Dad left 30 O00 Taler to me in his last will. That's my money. Please make him forward my money!
AW: Fritz says he's fighting the second Silesian War and has no money to spare. I'll keep trying, but in the meantime, if your husband is fine and is about to become King, surely there are no financial worries?
U: Ha. You know who runs the show here? Nobles and peasants in parliament. They're deciding the budget for our household, not the King. And they keep cutting it down, because for some reason, they think I'm arrogant. I'm thinking I need to buy me some noble support. Now, is Fritz more willing to give me my money? Over here, we hear he's building himself a new palace!
AW: Sorry, couldn't write for a while, had to write to Heinrich and Wilhelmine instead. There's some family drama going on. I, um, let's just say you can try for yourself with Fritz regarding the money, but if you like, I'd totally take up credit with the banks to lend you some.
U: You're sweet, and yes, let's. Now, nobles of Sweden: I know you're for some weird reason into this parliament system, but what makes you think that if you keep treating burghers as if they actually had the same rights as you in government, they won't end up treating you like they do us already? All representation, no power? Think long and hard.
*new party in Sweden with nobles sympathetic to the Queen, or so she thinks* developes.
*some years later*
U: Dearest darling brother Wilhelm, you won't believe what just happened. Parliament insisted on examining my oldest kid Gustav, age 10, for his education. And now they've decided to fire his teacher and take over the education of all my kids, appointing teachers of their own. Could you PLEASE tell Fritz I need money
to overthrow parliament?AW: That's truly rotten. I'm horrified. And worried for you. Don't you have anyone to speak for you in parliament? Am, as ever, willing to lend you some of my own money.
U: Don't talk to me of parliament, some ingrates I financed in the past have just turned their back on me. If I send you the crown jewels as well as my own personal jewelry, could you sell it for me? I'm thinking I need money to raise an army. This is clearly a Charles I and Crowmell situation. I'm not losing my head to the bloody peasants.
(She did use those historical examples.)
AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had." (Literal quote.) Look, it sucks, but you did marry into a freedom-loving nation, and honestly - (Literal non paraphrased quote follows again): "If I was a Swedish senator, I would give the King the power to do good, but I would also use the laws to limit his authority to stop him from committing injustices. I would wish he'd be the first servant of the state, the most useful man of the kingdom, and if he worked the hardest, then he would be rewarded accordingly." This is not at all a hint for your husband to be more like Fritz and work harder. But I am sorry for that bit with your kids' teachers, and I promise I'll pawn your jewels for you. Not the crown jewels, though. I just think this is a bad idea.
U: *sends jewels, which get duly pawned by Wilhelm for her, except it turns out some of the jewelry consists of fakes, and the jeweller goes public with this*
Sweden: Scandal! What is the Queen up to pawning her jewelry in Prussia? Could she want to raise an army against parliament? And aren't those our jewels anyway?
U: No, they're mine, given to me at the time of my marriage. Unlike my bloody dowry, Fritz! I hate you all. Except you, Wilhelm. You're a bit naive, but you've been my only sympathetic ear in all of this.
Seven Years War: *breaks out*
U: Dear Wilhelm, please tell Fritz that parliament decided to join the alliance against him, and that it would never have happened if only he'd given me the money to overthrow them and reintroduce absolute monarchy in Sweden, so it is all HIS FAULT.
(Some years later, son Gustav actually does manage a state coup reintroducing absolute monarchy in Sweden. It's the one time he truly makes his mother happy. But alas, there's a scandal on the way....
ETA: Ulrike's "where's my money and my support?" thing of course also provides context for Ulrike's needlings in Wilhelmine's direction. From her pov: Wilhelmine's house burns down? Fritz provides money and art. Wilhelmine wants to travel to France and Italy, the very thing Fritz didn't allow his brothers and which is also expensive? Wilhelmine gets to do it, with Fritzian support. Wilhelmine pisses off Fritz by meeting with his arch nemesis? She gets forgiven. Meanwhile, Ulrike is nominally a queen and thus should be the most important sister, but has to pawn her jewelry, and then it even turns out either her father or her brother had given her fake jewelry back in the day.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Good grief. He was her favourite brother.
I facepalmed so hard, you have no idea. Fritz fails ring theory again!
then it even turns out either her father or her brother had given her fake jewelry back in the day.
Oh no. The Hohenzollerns keep getting wackier
and more in need of therapists!Thank you for the Ulrike/AW summary!
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Good point. After all, F1 had left the country in debt for 20 Million Reichstaler, his administration was famously corrupt, and secret jewlry sales would fit right in. FW didn't buy any new jewelry - whatever Ulrike got in his lifetime was from what was left from her grandfather's day. Fritz might have bought her something new on the occasion of her wedding, but....
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Swedish Parliament: That clearly means Amalie would be his biddable spy. We're taking Ulrike. She seems to have a will of her own.
AHAHAHAHA Well, you tried, Fritz...
AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had." (Literal quote.) Look, it sucks, but you did marry into a freedom-loving nation, and honestly - (Literal non paraphrased quote follows again): "If I was a Swedish senator, I would give the King the power to do good, but I would also use the laws to limit his authority to stop him from committing injustices. I would wish he'd be the first servant of the state, the most useful man of the kingdom, and if he worked the hardest, then he would be rewarded accordingly." This is not at all a hint for your husband to be more like Fritz and work harder. But I am sorry for that bit with your kids' teachers, and I promise I'll pawn your jewels for you. Not the crown jewels, though. I just think this is a bad idea.
You know, I can see why AW was everyone's favorite. I think AW is my favorite too. <3
ETA: Ulrike's "where's my money and my support?" thing of course also provides context for Ulrike's needlings in Wilhelmine's direction.
Huh, that makes sense, I guess! BUT STILL.
D: What are you laughing about?
Me: I had no idea that 18thC Sweden was such a hotbed of sensational gossip!
Sweden: the Dallas of Rokoko Scandinavia
Or, how a more sober writer puts it:
The Swedish envoy in Berlin, Carl Rudenschöld, inspected them and recommended that the proposal be made to Ulrika. Frederick the Great himself preferred Amalia for the Swedish marriage: he described Amalia for the Swedish representatives as goodhearted and more suitable for Sweden, while Ulrika was arrogant, temperamental and a plotting intriguer. It has been suggested that Fredrick's judgment was given because he believed that Amalia would be easier to control as a Prussian agent in Sweden than the strong willed and dominant Ulrika. After having consulted Adolf Frederick, however, the Swedes chose Ulrika, and her brother gave his consent on 1 March 1744. She was given tuition about Sweden, was advised not to get involved in politics, and converted to Lutheranism 28 June.
All I can say on this occasion is: Swedes, you had it coming. But I do want to know whether Fritz was being sincere or was using reverse psychology on that occasion.
I had no idea that 18thC Sweden was such a hotbed of sensational gossip!
And you being a Verdi fan, no less. Also, there's always Axel von Fersen who is almost ridiculously perfect as a tragic romantic hero, and other than his childhood bff Gustav certainly was the most sensationally gossipped about Swede of his age. Zweig's MA biography will introduce you to details, but for now, have some tidbits:
Young Axel on the Grand Tour, meeting Voltaire: I was struck by the beauty of his eyes and the vivacity of his expression. It was, I confess, curiosity rather than admiration which led me to seek his acquaintance (...) He was not only extremely clever, but also very lucky; and one of the reasons of his success was that he was disliked, admired and befriended by different great people in such a way that his fame could not fail to spread.
(How's that for a diss, Fritz?)
Then our young, good-looking count gets to Paris. And meets a young masked lady at the opera. Sparks fly, but upon learning she is, in fact, the (married) Dauphine of France, young Axel hastily resumes his Grand Tour, then goes back to Sweden, serving childhood bff Gustav for the next few years. Then he goes to France once more, meets the by then Queen again, and sparks fly enough for people to notice and gossip. Since our hero, unlike most nobles, actually is aware that being gossipped about is starting to be a bad thing about the young Queen of France, he hastily withdraws again, this time to the American Revolution, no less, where he fights for the revolutionaries (whom France is allied with, remember). He duly distinguishes himself and goes back to Sweden, which is when Gustav makes a trip through central Europe, including France, and takes him along.
By this point, the necklace affair has happpened and ruined MA's reputation with the French population, as it turns out, for good. (No matter that in this case, all historians agree she was entirely innocent.) In the aftermath, von Fersen decides to stay with her. And remains through the early Revolution. He organized the ill fated escape attempt to Varennes and almost every other escape attempt thereafter, and tried his best to get first brother Leopold, then nephew Franz to do something for MA, he did manage to get Gustav on board with the "rescue the French Royals" train but then, well, masque ball. Axel von Fersen like a rl Scarlet Pimpernell managed to get into Revolutionary France again and again, but he could not save MA. He then returned to Sweden, heartbroken and full of guilt about having failed.
Fast forward to Gustav IV. Adolf being deposed by his uncle Charles; von Fersen leads the pro-Gustavian party in Sweden and gets blamed by public rumor for the death of Charles' only son (who when reviewing troops fell from his horse and died of apoplexy). When Axel von Fersen, in his capacity of peer of the realm, took part in the crown prince's funeral, he was, literally, torn apart by the mob. I kid you not. Quoth wiki: First curses then copper coins and various missiles were hurled at the carriage till its windows were broken; then savage threats and showers of stones become continuous, and, at last in the Riddarhustorget, at the instant when the escort was turning to the right, a tremendous crowd barred the way of Fersen's carriage ... the [guards] remained passive while the rabble unharnessed the horses, and dragged Fersen out of the coach.
Von Fersen, with a violent effort, flung back one of the assailants who grasped him and shook himself free of the others who were pressing round. There was a momentary lull, and the curses shrank from shouts to mutterings. Von Fersen's face bled where a stone had cut it, his decorations glittering in the sun. The guards, who were supposed to protect him, gazed at him with a sort of curious expectancy.
It was at this moment when Beaumont arrived on the scene with General Silfversparre and a small detachment of troops. This intervention further enraged the large crowd. Von Fersen, realizing that the authorities planned to do nothing, turned and dashed into the first door he could find. The crowd converged on this spot, and a few ran into the house in pursuit of him.
Before long, one man appeared at the window "and with a triumphant shout" hurled down von Fersen's cloak and sword, which were seized by the angry crowd. Von Fersen was dragged back out into the square. His gloves were pulled off and thrown in his face, and his coat torn off and trampled upon. Silfversparre, attempting to save von Fersen, offered to arrest him and have him tried in court for the Crown Prince's murder. At this moment, the mounted escort turned and rode away. The mob "had been almost quiet, but now raised yells of delight and triumph, and fell upon von Fersen".
Von Fersen's contemporary, Baron Gustaf Armfelt, stated afterward:
One is almost tempted to say that the government wanted to give the people a victim to play with, just as when one throws something to an irritated wild beast to distract its attention. The more I consider it all, the more I am certain that the mob had the least to do with it ... But in God's name what were the troops about? How could such a thing happen in broad daylight during a procession, when troops and a military escort were actually present?
Axel von Fersen died that day in Stockholm as Sweden's highest-ranking official next to the King; his death sent shock waves throughout the country. The cause of death was determined to be "crushing of the ribcage" when the Swedish-Finn Otto Johan Tandefelt jumped with both feet on Fersen's chest.
He had never married. His sister buried him with this enscription on his tomb:
To an unforgettable brother, the courage in his last moments on 20 June 1810, bears testimony to his virtues and clean conscience.
Re: Sweden: the Dallas of Rokoko Scandinavia
How was I supposed to know that Verdi was actually following history?? :) (no, seriously, whenever you or mildred is like "so this thing happened in real life that's actually in the libretto" I'm like, "really??")
and one of the reasons of his success was that he was disliked, admired and befriended by different great people in such a way that his fame could not fail to spread.
hahahahahaha!
Axel von Fersen! :(((((((((( geeeesh.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Wait, so he actually said, non-paraphrased literal quote, "first servant of the state"? Yeah, that's not subtle at aaaallll.
Also, way to have constitutional monarchical principles that are flexible enough to accommodate Dad and Older Bro, AW. A+ mental gymnastics.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
So he did. :) (BTW, do we know when Fritz first started to use that phrase? I.e. would Ulrike have caught the implication at once?)
AW seeing both Fritz and FW as role models in terms of kingship: the inevitable result of a childhood as FW's favorite son and then an adolescence thinking Fritz was the coolest? The respect for constitutional monarchy per se is also interesting. Heinrich later was one of the few European high ranking nobles who didn't take against the French Revolution once heads started to roll, which caused one 19th century Prussian historian to helplessly speculate: Maybe he was such a Francophile that even a French Revolution was okay by him, as long as it was French?
...or maybe, just maybe, both AW in his seeing the point of limiting royal power and Heinrich seeing the point of the French Revolution reflect a personal awareness of what unlimited royal power can do, historian.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Well, I don't know how widespread his use of it was, and whether it would automatically click in Ulrika's mind like it does in ours, but the first reference I find to it is in his memoirs of the house of Brandenburg. Those were published 1747-1748, so if that letter is from 1755 or 1756, Fritz had definitely come up with the phrase and published it by then.
By the way, the context for this is "Grandpa F1 was *not* the first servant of the state."
Actual quote: "His court was one of the most fabulous in Europe; his embassies were as magnificent as those of the Portuguese; he trampled the poor, to fatten the rich; his favorites received large pensions, while his people were in misery; his buildings were sumptuous, his parties magnificent; his stables and his offices had more of Asian pomp than European dignity about them."
Two pages later begins the chapter about FW. I can see where this is going.
AW seeing both Fritz and FW as role models in terms of kingship: the inevitable result of a childhood as FW's favorite son and then an adolescence thinking Fritz was the coolest?
Maybe not strictly inevitable, but extremely natural, I would agree.
...or maybe, just maybe, both AW in his seeing the point of limiting royal power and Heinrich seeing the point of the French Revolution reflect a personal awareness of what unlimited royal power can do, historian.
Yeeeeaaaah. Omg, those Prussian historians.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Yeah, AW seems kinda... perceptive, from what you guys have shared about him.
Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son
Pssst, what about a flute-bustin' Prussian?
what about a flute-bustin' Prussian
Re: what about a flute-bustin' Prussian