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Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!
All Yuletide requests are out!
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Re: Crackfic
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Speaking of book reports, I have obtained the last of the Lady Mary/Algarotti correspondence and will be scanning and uploading that shortly.
Re: Crackfic
The passage on page 83 reads: "At their first meeting after his flight and capture on August 15th 1731 in Küstrin, his father asked: "Did you seduce Katte, or did Katte seduce you?"" German word is "Verführen", as guessed. Also, FW is quoted saying "du", so he must be talking in German. "Friedrich claimed the guilt was his. The protocol of this meeting leaves it ambigous whether the question refers solely to the attempted flight, or also to the "horrible sins", at which the various interrogations had repeatedly hinted at."
Re: the Marwitz episode, that's a bust, Burgdorf just gives an abbreviated version of Ziebura's version, he doesn't even quote the letters, just Lehndorff's diary entry.
In general, I'm less than impressed by this book. I mean, yes, it's an unambious "Fritz was gay, gay, and did I mention, gay?", but he often writes speculation as fact without providing any sources to back this up. For example, re: Orzelska, he says they met in Dresden, hit it off and started "a life long correspondance in letters". (? This is news to me. Have not seen a single letter to or from Orzelska quoted in any biography so far.) Then Burgdorf adds that any thought Fritz actually slept with her even once has clearly to be a fairy tale conjured up by 19th century Prussian historians in a desperate attempt to make their hero less gay. Now, do I think later historians (and not just 19th century ones) jumped at the Orzelska episode, along with poor Doris Ritter, as one of the few examples of Fritz showing interest in a woman he's not related to and who could possibly constructed as a romantic object out of homophobia? Sure. But the thing is, said historians didn't make this up out of nothing. Fritz in a letter to Voltaire unambigously claims to have been in love with her. Wilhelmine said he came back from Dresden very pleased with himself and having had sex with her. Now Fritz could have been lying about this to Voltaire and Wilhelmine both, absolutely. But for Burgdorf not as much as reference the claim and pretend it was all an invention by later historians is disingenious.
And he keeps doing this. After quoting Wilhelmine's unflattering early assessment of Katte, he adds this negative opinion "was purely jealousy, as Wilhelmine had fallen for Katte herself". Ooookay. I mean, again: I, too, did wonder, whether in addition to resenting Katte for the same reason she had resented Keith before him - possessiveness of Fritz' time and attention -, she herself might have felt attracted to Katte and therefore been extra hostile. But that's speculation. He presents it without any "if" or "maybe" or "it could be possible, that...", just as a statement of fact, and there isn't as much as a footnote indicating where he has that from.
Hence me being less than impressed, alas. And not knowing he reliable is in matters I don't have previous background knowledge of, like, for example, a statemtn like: "The King's love could be deadly. Katte wasn't the only one who lost his life. A young officer, Gregorii, shot himself when Friedrich turned towards a new favourite." Again, no footnote indicating where this story is from.
One useful information I didn't know before which appears to be genuine: after Fredersdorf had died, Fritz asked his widow to return his (i.e. Fritz') letters. She did send two packages of letters back which were duly burnt, but as it turns out kept the majority of letters, which meant we still have them; they were not published until 1926, though.
The other new to me thing was that the "Prussian Pompadour" designation for Fredersdorf which I had read in articles before hails from none other than Ernst von Lehndorff, EC's chamberlain and Heinrich's friend-with-benefits, who writes in his diary in a 1757 entry that he finds it amazing that a "common man" (reminder: Fredersdorf was not a noble) "had played the role of prime minister for so long", ascribes it to him having had "a very pretty face" for a start and having had the wisdom "to withdraw in time, which is a delicate matter for men who have a position otherwise given to a beautiful woman who has to notice when her beauty starts to fade".
(My dear Lord Chamberlain, the Marquise famously held her position long beyond Louis' sexual interest, till her death. Just saying.)
Re: Crackfic
What. (Trier doesn't have anything either. WTF, author.)
Then Burgdorf adds that any thought Fritz actually slept with her even once has clearly to be a fairy tale conjured up by 19th century Prussian historians in a desperate attempt to make their hero less gay.
What.
he adds this negative opinion "was purely jealousy, as Wilhelmine had fallen for Katte herself".
What.
"The King's love could be deadly. Katte wasn't the only one who lost his life. A young officer, Gregorii, shot himself when Friedrich turned towards a new favourite."
What. Like you say, it may be true, but it's news to me. Citation required. Also, shooting yourself when your boyfriend moves on (why?) is not exactly comparable to being executed by your boyfriend's father.
after Fredersdorf had died, Fritz asked his widow to return his (i.e. Fritz') letters. She did send two packages of letters back which were duly burnt, but as it turns out kept the majority of letters, which meant we still have them; they were not published until 1926, though.
Okay, that's interesting. Friiitz! Inquiring minds need to know about your relationship with Fredersdorf
so we can write curtain fic.(My dear Lord Chamberlain, the Marquise famously held her position long beyond Louis' sexual interest, till her death. Just saying.)
Maybe he's implying that she needs to step down too? :P Wikipedia tells me 1757 was 6 years after she ceased to be official chief mistress, which would mean he moved on sexually when she was about 30, and she's 35 now. (Lehndorff can hardly be held responsible for knowing in 1757 that she would still be influential in 1764, but yes, he should know about the last 6 years, though he may be stating his disapproval.) At any rate, he seems to be indicating that the stepping down was voluntary on Fredersdorf's part.
Okay, found the relevant passage in his diaries online: "His sickness, his jealousy of the famous Glasow*, his wealth, and especially his desire to live quietly, made him beg the king until he relieved him of all his offices." I really want to know what the primary source is for Fredersdorf's involuntary dismissal on grounds of dishonesty. Hopefully the letters will clear that up when they arrive.
Anyway, Burgdorf seems highly unreliable. I am not impressed.
Glasow: I had to refresh myself, but he was apparently a private soldier in the infantry with a pretty face, turned Fritz's favorite starting in 1755, then he ended up in Spandau in 1757 with no reason given. Secondary sources give two accounts: 1) he was part of a plot to poison Fritz, 2) he used his Fritz's seal in an unauthorized manner to issue orders of his own. The same source that says he used to be required to sleep in Fritz's bedroom is the same sources that other sources dismiss as unreliable for the poisoning account. It's pretty clear we have no idea what's going on here, even my secondary sources say that.
Man, I need to reread all the Fritz bios in e-book form. It's only been a few months since my last stint, but thanks to our discussion, there are so many things I actually have context for now that might jump out at me as interesting, like the monkey episode that I had apparently entirely forgotten when I read it the first time (because I had no one to share cool things with). As I was scrolling through volume 1 of Catt yesterday, I was realizing all the military details that I had skimmed because it was a bunch of meaningless place names, now have meaning to me. Totally unexpected side benefit of all that map work. So now I want to reread volume 1.
But! First I need to finish said map-making, and then I need to get my health sorted so I have the concentration to read even e-books again.
Re: Crackfic