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Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!
All Yuletide requests are out!
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Re: Sibling Correspondance - II
(Must have gone something like this: G: Mein Führer, let me impress you on your birthday with a bunch of letters of our heroic Frederick the Great who proves that you can emerge from a three front war covered in glory and success.
H: Just what I've been saying, but alas, if these are in French again, I can't read them.
G: Not so! These are authentic Frederick the Great letters in German! Proving his touching utterly platonic regard for his loyal servant. May they inspire you in these dark days!
...yep, being in a fandom with them is the worst.
Katte souvenir hunters: haven't heard that, but would believe it, because yes, people do that, and did.
That was unknown to me. That's...some serious displeasure.
No kidding. Have now ordered Eva Ziebura's AW biography from the library (it doesn't have her Heinrich one, alas); the reviews of same mention that because he was FW's favourite son, he used to be the mediator between his father and the other siblings, so that was one family role he was used to. (But presumably did not expect having to take between Fritz and Wilhelmine. The age gap between AW and the oldest two practically ensured he didn't really relate to them until years later - he was, what, eight when Katte died?) In case you're wondering, Oster along with other biographers says FW's favourite daughter was Friederike Luise. He also liked Ulrike a lot, but Friederike Luise was the one getting letters a few months after her wedding like "My dearest darling Ickerle, I haven't written to you for such a long, long time and have gotten so many letters from you. My dearest daughter, do not forget your father who loves you with all his heart and soul. God be praised you are well" and so forth, signing off with "I am, keeping my dearest daughter in my heart until death, your faithful father FW". (So yes, he could write to girls.)
Friederike Luise, who was the first of the siblings to get married - and that her marriage to the Margrave of Ansbach got negotiated quickly and went with minimum fuss while the English marriage negotiations for Wilhelmine and Fritz were simultanously in an endless loop must have made the later all the more irritating for FW - gets one memorable scene in Wilhelmine's memoirs shortly before her wedding. Friederike Luise, as a reminder is 15, the sibling born after Fritz. Her marriage will be truly miserable and she'll sink into depression (she also developed symptoms of porphyria, supporting the theory that both FW and Fritz could have had it), but as of yet, she's a spirited girl who actually talks back at FW thusly:
"(The King) asked my sister whether she was looking forward to her marriage and how she planned on conducting her household. My sister had established a footing with him where she told him everything frankly, even hard truths, without him getting enraged by it. Thus, she replied with her usual frankness that she would offer a good and richly decorated table at meals, which, as she added, "Shall be better than yours; and when I get chldren, I will not maltreat them as you do, nor force them to eat things that disagree with them." "What do you mean by this," the King asked, "what is lacking at my table?"
"It lacks," she said, "because one doesn't get full on it, and that the few things offered consist of heavy vegetables which we cannot stomach." The King was already indignant about the first reply, but the later caused him to explode, yet his entire fury fell on my brother and myself. First, he threw a plate in the direction of my brother's head who evaded the throw, and then he let one fly in my direction. I avoided it as well.These first hostilities were followed by a hailstorm of abuse."
That FW isn't angry with the child who actually backmouthed but his two older children demonstrates, among other things, that they've become his lightning rods at this time. (And btw, also worth noting that Fritz had to my knowledge a non-relationship - neither positive nor negative - with Friederike Luise, who was after all only as many years younger than him as Wilhelmine was older and in theory could have been close. Ansbach was next to Bayreuth, but he never visited her when visiting Wilhelmine. She was also not present at the wedding of Wilhelmine's daughter, which practically happened next door to her, but as Oster says, at this point she'd already succumed to depression and likely porphyria enough to become a total hermit.
"I'm exempting you from the usual rule of putting me and my wars first!" That's some true sibling love right there.
Indeed, and since we've quoted ample examples of his other tendencies, I thought it only fair to include this. He really did love her above and beyond.
Voltaire: quite. In the spirit of fairness as well, he did write an ode to her after her death he included in the first edition of Candide, and got tearful with Fritz years later about her; I don't think it was just because of what her brother might still do for him. Speaking of Voltaire and dead women, his remark about Madame de Pompadour after her death in a letter to a friend also sound genuine: : "I am very sad at the death of Madame de Pompadour. I was indebted to her and I mourn her out of gratitude. It seems absurd that while an ancient pen-pusher like me, hardly able to walk, should still be alive, a beautiful woman, in the midst of a splendid career, should die at the age of forty-two."
ETA: Forgot, about future Margrave of Bayreuth going through the same hunt + having to empty a big cup of beer experience with FW, Oster frustratingly doesn't provide a literal quote, just a paraphrase, but he does make it sound as if FW had decided to give this son-in-law the (almost) full Fritz treatment. Re: the regiment, when marrying Bayreuth Friedrich had asked for a Prussian one in order to please his future father-in-law and his father at the same time (remember, Bayreuth was a small principality).
Oster: "(The drink) didn't agree with (Bayreuth Friedrich), which must have confirmed the King's opinion of him, especially since the drunken prince did not hold back with his opinion on the King's behavior. Friedrich Wilhelm then took to refering to his son-in-law as an "ass and simpleton". He said he would "educate him in his own style, or he wouldn't be FW". Openly, he demanded the officers of Friedrich's regiment should mock and taunt their superior. That was too much even for the Queen who otherwise didn't think much of her unwanted son-in-law, but now spiritedly made it clear to her husband that everything had its limits. "I tremble," Wilhelmine wrote on January 13th 1733 to her brother, "that he treats him the way he has treated you. I don't know what he holds against him."
Nothing, one might add, though Wilhelmine wasn't wrong in her fear: The King wanted to break his son-in-law the same way he'd broken his son. Every bit of pride, every will power was to be eliminated. But Wilhelmine's husband hadn't gone through Friedrich's childhood. He faced his father-in-law's behavior with utter disbelief. He had no intention of being broken and being censored."
(Future Margrave: WTF? What did I marry into? WTF is going on here????)
Re: Sibling Correspondance - II
Aw man, this is just classic golden-child scapegoat familial relations :(
I really like that quote from Voltaire <3 :(
Fredersdorf
...yep, being in a fandom with them is the worst.
I went on a scavenger hunt for Fredersdorf material today, found an article describing this episode, and it said the context was even worse: the letters were valued because they contained anti-Semitic comments from Old Fritz. Because while Fritz was often liberal for his time, he lived in dark times. *facepalm* Fucking out of my fandom now, Nazis! Nobody invited you.
Anyway. This article said something about 300 pages of Fritz/Fredersdorf letters. The University of Trier site has roughly 30 pages. And while I was churning through these letters in Google translate, I did not see a bunch of things I'd seen quoted elsewhere, leading me to believe Trier has only a small sample.
So I went and looked for the book that I keep seeing cited for the Fritz/Fredersdorf correspondence, and Amazon said it was 400+ pages. Amazon also said it was $5.48.
You can guess what happened.
Yes, mes amies, I ordered yet another hard copy of a book that I can't physically hold without pain, in a language I don't know, at a time when I'm not working and shouldn't be buying books (but it was only $5!). Because fandom plus bibliophilia really messes with your mind.
Anyway. It's on its way. Among other things, I want to see if it has any material on or post-dating the estrangement. Various of my sources say Fredersdorf was dismissed over financial irregularities in mid-1757, and he proceeded to die in January 1758, after a lengthy illness, wracked with grief over his disgrace. If you know your chronology, you may compare AW, who was dismissed over a military failure in mid-1757 and proceeded to die in mid-1758, after a somewhat less lengthy illness, wracked with grief over his disgrace.
Fritz, in mid-1757, was writing suicidal-sounding letters after a major military defeat. I'm guessing his mood and his interpersonal relations at this time had something of a chicken-and-egg effect on each other. Then everyone dies in 1757-1758, his sister on the day of an even bigger military disaster, and he becomes even more depressed. A year later, the ultimate military defeat happens, surviving loved ones are thin on the ground, and Fritz tells Catt, "You know, if I ever look like I'm about to be captured, I'm taking a fatal dose of opium so fast it'll make your head spin."
Speaking of Catt: interesting Fredersdorf parallels. Fritz meets Fredersdorf shortly after Katte's death. They're together for 26 years. During this time, Fredersdorf gets married, which makes Fritz unhappy. After 26 years, Fritz dismisses him for financial irregularities. Within a year, he's taken Catt on. Catt is with him for 24 years. During this time, Catt gets married, which makes Fritz unhappy (okay, this part was kind of a thing). After 24 years, Fritz dismisses him for financial irregularities. Catt does not proceed to die, but outlives Fritz by a good many years (being a good many years younger).
But what I really came here to say, is that I have to share this absolutely endearing, ship-writes-itself moment from the Fritz/Fredersdorf letters.
In April 1754, while Fredersdorf was extremely ill and housebound, and Fritz was frantically writing
touching utterly platonic"For God's sake, take care of yourself!" letters to him, Fritz wrote the following: "I'm planning on riding out today around noon. Come to the window, I want to see you; but keep the window shut and make sure there's a strong fire in your room."I AWWWed out loud. I'm still AWWWing. When you're traveling on business all the time, and you don't have FaceTime or WhatsApp, you have to get creative to see your sick loved ones. <3
Actual quote to Fredersdorf from the same year: "Monday I go to the camp in Spandau, Friday I'm back here, Monday to Berlin, then Tuesday to Silesia*."
Related quote, also from 1754, which made me laugh out loud: "Tomorrow I'm leaving, but on Monday I'm coming back, and then no devil will get me out of Potsdam, or the King of England will have to come here with his Russians to besiege me."
* It's August, so time for those autumn military reviews
which are going to pay off in a few years.You know...it occurs to me this might be the context for that galley slave comment to Wilhelmine. She's about to leave for Italy in a couple months, and Fritz is thinking, "I just want to see my sick boyfriend here in Berlin, and I can hardly even do that." :(
But seriously. Sick Fredersdorf coming to the window so Fritz can see him as he rides past his house, omg. <333 4ever
Re: Fredersdorf
Heinrich's boyfriends got married to, and not just when they left him, a la Mara; the last one, the beautiful French emigré count, picked up a wife who became part of the Rheinsberg circle and lived long enough for a young Theodor Fontane to meet her and get some first hand accounts of Heinrich in his old age. (And of her husband, which explains the enthusiastic description of his looks and charm in the Wanderungen!) The widow was a cat lover and died, Fontane says, in a Rococo way - one of her favored cats bit her on the lower lip, the wound got infected, and that was that.
Fredersdorff also makes it into the Wanderungen apropos Zernikow, the estate he managed and Fontane has this to say:
For eighteen years, from 1740 to 1758, Fredersdorff was in possession of Zernikow, to which fact we pose the question whether he was a blessing to the village and its inhabitants or not. The answer to the question is quite in his favor. While having ambition and an unmistakable desire for respect and wealth, he has been mainly of a kind and benevolent nature, and he turned out to be mild, indulgent, helpful, as a landlord. His farmers and day laborers fared well. And as for the inhabitants at the time, he was fortunate enough for the village itself. Most innovations, as far as they are not merely the beautification, can be traced back to him. He found a neglected piece of sand and left behind a well-cultivated estate, which he had given partly through investments of all kinds, partly through the purchase of meadows and forests, which he usually needed. The activity he developed was great. Colonists and craftsmen were consulted and weaving and straw-weaving were done by diligent hands. At the same time and with fondness he adopted the silk industry. Gardens and paths were planted with mulberry trees (as many as 8,000 by 1747), and the following year he had for the first time a net yield of the reeled silk. No sooner did he find a piece of good clay soil on his field-mark than a brick-work was already built, so that in 1746 he was able to build the still existing house from self-made stones. In the same year he introduced, as well as in Spandau and Köpenick, large brewery buildings in which the so-called "Fredersdorffer beer" named after him was brewed. In everything, he proved to be the eager disciple of his royal master, and in the whole manner in which he set things in motion, it became clear that he was to follow the king's organizational plans with understanding, and to use them as a model. Many tried, though he found it easier than most, especially with regard to the means of execution, since a king who could write to him: "If there was a means in the world to help you in two minutes, I wanted to buy it, be it as expensive as it may, " was probably prepared to help with gifts and advances of all kinds. It seems, however, that these aids always remained within a limited range, and that the improvements did not take until 1750 on a larger scale, where Fredersdorff had married Karoline Marie Elisabeth Daum, the wealthy heiress of Banquier Daum, who had died in 1743. At least starting from there from those purchases of goods, which I have already mentioned above. Fredersdorff lived with his young wife in a very happy but childless marriage. It is not to be supposed that he was in Zernikow all the time, but it seems that from 1750 onwards (ie after his marriage) he was at least as often as possible on his estate and liked to spend the summer months there. Whether he had practiced his alchemical arts and gold-making experiments even in rural seclusion, has not been determined. He died at Potsdam in the same year (1758), which brought so many heavy casualties to his royal master, and his body was transferred to Zernikow. Michael Gabriel Fredersdorff died on January 12, 1758.
Re: Fredersdorf's marriage, the internet tells me otherwise it was 1753, not 1750, and Fontane couldn't look it up?
Re: Fredersdorf
Re: Fredersdorf's marriage, the internet tells me otherwise it was 1753, not 1750, and Fontane couldn't look it up?
The internet tells me the same thing, but the internet also tells me Katte's birthday is several days later than Fontane says, and Fontane gives documentary evidence he personally inspected, while the internet doesn't cite any source at all, so I'm suspending judgment. However, a letter from Fritz concerning the upcoming marriage is cited, so once I have the volume containing their correspondence, I will look and see if I can find it.
Re: Fredersdorf
Re: Fredersdorf
Also, I refuse to write a book on Fritz until I can read both French and German, and that might take a while. :P
If we did convert these posts into a book, though, I think we could model it on 1066 and All That. 1740 and All That?
Re: Fredersdorf
Heh. There is that. (My French background is sufficiently strong that, as long as I don't have to pronounce anything, I could probably be pretty good at reading fairly quickly, but my German is nonexistent, and more to the point my history and everything else is nonexistent, although as a result of being in this fandom for... four months?? ... I feel like I now know more about it than the average person, at least :P Possibly more than some biographers :PP)
Re: Fredersdorf
I feel like I could get my French reading proficiency up to speed if I were sufficiently motivated and in better health, but German would take ages, and also they're just not high enough on my list that they're likely to happen, alas.
Re: Fredersdorf
(and, okay, I am now a sucker whenever anyone says that anyone was in a happy marriage! Regardless of whether it actually makes sense to believe them!)
Re: Fredersdorf
Also, if it was 1753, what else happened that year? Well, the big Voltaire implosion, and Algarotti scuttling away to Italy never to return. Once again, I feel like Fritz's mood and interpersonal relationships are having a chicken-egg effect here.
Re: Fredersdorf
Typo: "tomorrow," not "today." Today would be a little short notice.