Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!

[cahn]

All Yuletide requests are out!

Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!

-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)

Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!

-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French

-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...

Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links

Comments

Re: Chronicle of a a failed foreign policy venture

[selenak]

Jeanne Poisson, Marquise de Pompadour, also nicknamed "Reinette": heroine of the Doctor Who episode The Girl in the Fireplace, among so many other things. (I just can't help bringing that up!). She was a smart, well read woman who from girlhood onwards literally was trained to become a royal mistress one day by her ambitious mother (despite not being of noble blood, which until then was a strict condition). When she married, she did warn her husband what she had in mind, but promised she would be loyal otherwise. (He became the father of her only daughter.) At age 20, she managed to meet the King, intrigued him, became his mistress and then amazed everyone by staying his mistress until her death, despite the fact their sexual relationship ran its course after about a decade. She was the only one of Louis XV's mistresses who made a point out of cultivating the Queen (Maria Lesczynska, Polish, and ridiculed by the French courtiers as backward and boring) as well, being nice to her and influencing Louis to include her more in his life. Accordingly, the Queen backed her up when the clerics really started to gun for her once it was evident the Marquise would not go away. In her most famous portrait, she's depicting holding a copy of the dictionary by Diderot and D'Alembert, which is a statement because that book was forbidden by censorship at the time.

Or, maybe I'll just ask, tell me about how Mme de Pompadour brought their alliance with Austria into being??

I'm currently on the road again and thus separated from most of my books, but things to bear in mind before I proceed with what I recall:

- just how unthinkable a France/Austria alliance was at the time, due to all those centuries of enmity. Not for nothing would poor Marie Antoinette be nicknamed "L'Autriechienne", the Austrian (also a pun on "l'autrie chienne", the other dog), as a derogatory term. We're talking long established loathing and nobody but nobody assuming this would ever change, not least because France was the first to jump on the "let's attack MT" train after Fritz started it with invading Silesia

- Fritz' tendency to go Frank Miller on any prominent woman other than a very few, usually related to him, and call them whores. Mme de Pompadour (as well as the Czarina Elizabeth) were of course the most prominent examples.

- Fritz having left the French in the lurch once he got what he wanted (Silesia), this resulting in the Austrians winning against the French

Kaunitz, MT's (and later Joseph's) PM, at this point new in the business: I have this secret master plan to make Fritz a margrave again.
MT: I'm listening.
Kaunitz: It involves allying ourselves with the French and the Russians.
MT: Still listening, but will the French? Last I heard, Louis (XV) and his cabinet still call me "The Queen of Hungary" and hate our guts.
Kaunitz: .... well, how about we approach the King's mistress for help? She's a smart woman and not too fond of being constantly called a whore. I mean, I know you're really opposed to extramarital sex yourself, your highness, but Louis is the biggest practicioner of them all, and we're talking to him anyway. Remember the end goal!
MT: Still listening.

Austrian Ambassador: So, my sovereign wonders whether you could possibly influence the King to sign up in an anti-Fritz-league?
Pompadour: This country sure needs a new policy. We've been stuck in a rut since Louis XIV. Sign me on. But make it a strictly defense pact at first, that'll make it easier to sell it to Louis. To become a fighting alliance only if Fritz attacks first.

MT in Vienna: eh, he's bound to, being him. Okay, convey my thanks to the Marquise.

Elizabeth in Russia: *joins up as well, on the same condition*

Fritz: *hears about MT, Elizabeth and Pompadour ganging up on him* I'm the modern Orpheus, persecuted by a gang of women who want to tear me apart. Okay, time to pre-emptively invade Saxony.

7 Years War: begins

Fritz: *wins early victories*

Louis: Darling, was that really a good idea? I mean, I can't stand the man, either, but the Austrians are our traditional enemies and the Prussians our traditional allies, so...

Pompadour: Look, if there's one thing the last decade or two have shown, it's that the current King of Prussia is the worst ally ever. Whereas MT might have no sense of fashion and no appreciation for Voltaire, but she's loyal. She's never screwed over a single one of her allies and supporters.

France: *stays in*

Fritz: *starts losing battles*

Wilhelmine: I'm really worried about your life, bro. Of course you're still the greatest military genius over, but you're not immune to bullets, and you're in the field a lot. Do you think you could maybe try for a separate peace with France? I could play unofficial ambassador via the mail, because people still write to me, and vice versa.

Fritz: Not that I'm afraid of anything, but you're in a bad state of health, and thus, solely to indulge you... maybe? Theoretically.

Wilhelmine: Obviously, the person to ask, DIPLOMATICALLY, is the Marquise de Pompadour, if that's cool with you?

Fritz: Eh. Why not. Tell her I'm willing to pay up to XXXXX Francs (sorry, I can't remember the exact sum from the letter), that should cover it.

Pompadour: Dear mutual friend, tell the Margravine to tell her brother this is one whore he'll never be able to afford. If he wants peace, he can send an official emissary to his majesty the king. And the Empress.

Fritz: Women! *writes a satirical pamphlet/forgery consisting of a supposed letter from MT to the Marquise which a lot of contemporaries take for the genuine article, with MT calling Pompadour "dearest sister"; this was meant to, and did cause indignation about MT being a hypocrite and traitor to royal dignity for negotiating with a whore*

Re: Chronicle of a a failed foreign policy venture

[cahn]

Wow, this is all amazing.

literally was trained to become a royal mistress one day by her ambitious mother (despite not being of noble blood, which until then was a strict condition)

I gotta wonder how that even works. "This has never been possible before... but on the off chance that it is... you're going to do it, daughter!" No wait, on second thought, I've known a bunch of tiger moms, it just goes to show that some things transcend the ages, and one of them is over-ambitious moms who sometimes actually succeed.

When she married, she did warn her husband what she had in mind, but promised she would be loyal otherwise. (He became the father of her only daughter.)

That is suuuuper interesting.

In her most famous portrait, she's depicting holding a copy of the dictionary by Diderot and D'Alembert, which is a statement because that book was forbidden by censorship at the time.

So by the time I got to the end of htis paragraph, and before I even got to Austria, I was wondering if there is a decent biography of her I can look at. The first one that comes up at Amazon is by Nancy Mitford, which I'm discarding from consideration, of course. Do you happen to know any? I also came across the memoirs of one of her maids, which I've downloaded.

Pompadour: This country sure needs a new policy. We've been stuck in a rut since Louis XIV. Sign me on. But make it a strictly defense pact at first, that'll make it easier to sell it to Louis. To become a fighting alliance only if Fritz attacks first.

MT in Vienna: eh, he's bound to, being him. Okay, convey my thanks to the Marquise.

HEE.

Fritz: *hears about MT, Elizabeth and Pompadour ganging up on him* I'm the modern Orpheus, persecuted by a gang of women who want to tear me apart. Okay, time to pre-emptively invade Saxony.

As usual, all together: oh Fritz.

Pompadour: Dear mutual friend, tell the Margravine to tell her brother this is one whore he'll never be able to afford.

OMG she is awesome!

Re: Chronicle of a a failed foreign policy venture

[selenak]

Re: biography, can't help you, as the only one I ever read was eons ago and a German one - I was still in school then, and I don't remember the title, the author was Helmut something or the other.

But here are some nice things to look at, from the Doctor Who episode starring her. Basic background info for non-Whovians - the Doctor is an alien time traveller, but in this particular case, the way he keeps running into Reinette (btw that was an actual nickname, the episode didn't make that up, and that her mother nicknamed her "little Queen" already tells you all about her mother) isn't by his usual means of (time) transportation but via a portal in a mysterious space ship he and his friends are stranded on, full of automatons that want something from Reinette and keep showing up at different points in her life via said portal. Our hero follows and thus runs into her as well, first as a child, then as an adult.

first time the Doctor meets an adult Reinette, played by Sophia Myles who manages to radiate intelligence and mischief beautifully.

Rokoko era mindmeld, as the Doctor tries to figure out what the hell the automatons want from Reinette

Versailles under attack, and Reinette shows why she's the first woman of France

Doctor Who

[cahn]

OK, wow, she is awesome :D

(also I have to watch Doctor Who, don't I :P )

Re: Doctor Who

[selenak]

Well, I am a fan, but given the sheer number of seasons, it's very time consuming. You could watch The Girl in the Fireplace, though, it's a pretty self contained episode which wraps up its story at the end.