cahn | Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!

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Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!

All Yuletide requests are out!

Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!

-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)

Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!

-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French

-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...

Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links

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That is a pretty good summary indeed.

But the question that led to all this: do you know if I was right about Matilda seeing her most important title as that of Empress of the Romans and the English not being too pleased about this, or if I was misremembering? A quick skim of Wikipedia did not enlighten me one way or the other.

why this period is often refered to as "the anarchy".

And unofficially, as the period "when Christ and his saints slept," which is a phrase taken from a contemporary chronicler, and is also the title of that novel to which

selenak refers. If you're looking for historical fiction,

cahn, Sharon Kay Penman is known for some well-received doorstoppers: Stephen & Maud, Llywelyn the Great and other Welsh princes, Richard III, and apparently some about Eleanor of Aquitaine, Henry, and their sons (including Richard the Lion-hearted and John) that were written after I stopped reading historical fiction of this period.

Which would fit with the general Obelisk theme of "People who were fucked over by Fritz" in a metaphorical, not literal way better.

Yeah, I'm going to go with "probably the military context," but you never know. At least one biographer seems to think the Marwitz episode is when Heinrich's hatred of Fritz started, so..."Oh, how I hate you, let this obelisk count the ways."

Btw, it occurred to me that on the subject of the Fritz/Heinrich and FW/Fritz parallels, my feelings in this fandom can be summed up thusly:

Re Fritz: Hate the sin, love the sinner.
Re FW: HATE the sinner!

That's fair, right? :P

the four letters from Fritz to Heinrich re: Marwitz the hot page were written in March 1746

My sources also say March 1746. I went to look at his personal correspondence to reread the letters in question (I don't remember them being fully enlightening last time, but weak French + Google was probably not helping)--and I couldn't find them. I had "Marwitz" in my search history, proving that I did look them up before, but this time I'm only seeing a handful of letters from 1745-1746, and none of them seem to involve hot pages, and none of the 1746 ones are dated.

I'm terribly confused, because I could have sworn I read at least the letter where Fritz was saying "gonorrhea and flabby body" to Heinrich, and have some vague memory of the letter beyond that line...and yet now I can't find it. Perhaps I read it quoted somewhere else? I know I was looking into the lust triangle episode a while back. Anyway. I'm sure we'll get it sorted one day, thanks to your diligent efforts!

Also. March 1746 is not just the time of the Wilhelmine/Margrave/Marwitz love triangle. I *just* realized. It's also, generally speaking, the time of Darget.

As recounted here, December 1745 is when the French send Darget to (allegedly) try to seduce Fritz into not abandoning their alliance; January 1746 is when Darget comes to Berlin to ~~make an alliance of his own~~ be Fritz's librarian. So now I'm imagining...

Fritz: Look, I just won a war and my people are calling me "the Great"--of course I'm super revved up. Ima look at some pretty boys and build a palace, fuck yeah. \o/

Chronology is everything. :-PPP

(Also Fritz around this time: Hey, Algarotti!)

Apparantly he liked to look at the occasional corpse in Rheinsberg. But not until some make-up had been put on the dead fellow to make him look less corpse-like.

...I mean, at this point all I can do is stare at him and go, "I guess that's far from the weirdest thing a Hohenzollern ever did. You do you, Heinrich." (Do you need some therapy?)

it's sweet, but also yet another example of 'you two were a scandal that never happened due to your orientation'

Oh, you Hohenzollerns.

So when you said Heinrich and AW had a relationship of the same intensity as Fritz/Wilhelmine, and this time one has the right orientation and the other is bi according to at least one gossipy sensationalist...does that mean Heinrich/AW scandal fodder yes/no/maybe?

why on earth a Hohenzollern would marry another Hohenzollern

HOMG.

The roleplay: they finished it before the Diplomatic Revolution. But yes, Prussia wins.

But after the Diplomatic Revolution, when it ceased to be a hypothetical RPG and started to be life-or-death, did they have opinions about whether Fritz/Prussia could pull off a victory against these odds?

All I remember is Heinrich gloating after Kolin, which doesn't bode well for commitment to the cause...

Fritz! Encouraging a woman to overrule her man on the throne when it suits you!

Look, principles are not important when you're king. Only the state is important. If only Montezuma had known this, the Spanish conquest might have gone very differently. :P

I checked out Wikipedia just to see if niece Wilhelmine survived Fritz, and thank goodness she did. Both because we have enough people dying young in this century, and also because he survived enough people he cared about.

Almost there! Just need to see if I can figure out the last dozen or so tricky place names that I couldn't figure out the first time through, then start preparing the data for image generation, run through the images in chronological order as a sanity check to make sure he isn't doing anything crazy, like jumping hundreds of miles overnight and then back again, and finally see if I can generate a gif out of this many images without either crashing my computer or needing 50 years for the command to run (it was an interesting exercise not crashing my computer just on the smaller data set).

Edited 2019-11-25 03:32 (UTC)

In looking at the Henricus Major 1745/1746 correspondence, I find that Fritz also declined to let *him* go to war, age approximately 19.

I think that might be a misunderstanding? Because von Krockow in his double biography/portrait says Heinrich already distinguished himself in the Second Silesian War at the conquest of Prague (16 September 1744), battle of Hohenfriedberg (4th June 1745), and in the battle of Soor (September 30th 1745, the very day Franz Stephan got crowned as Emperor in Frankfurt), where Heinrich alredy commanded an infantry brigade in the rank of "Generalmajor". However, once the war was over, in 1746, he wanted to go on a Grand Tour through Europe instead of still doing military (peacetime) duty and comamnding the garnison in Spandau. (Which was his unwanted post-Silesia job that he neglected so he'd be allowed to go; that was what the argument with AW quoted earlier about Heinrich's character was about.) Fritz seems to have responded with "You're younger me, of course you don't get to go on the Grand Tour!" Heinrich then tries to sell the Grand Tour as a military educational tour, he's totally just going to check out every army and fortress in Europe to further become a better soldier.

To this, Krockow quotes the following Fritz letter: Dear Brother! Indeed I had not expected to receive a letter from you. However, since you've managed to sulk for six months and live in the same house with me without looking at me or talking to me, nothing surprises me anymore. However, I wasn't prepared for the project you are suggesting. I'm not opposed to you educating yourself. But given the little interest you're currently showing in patriotic military service doesn't seem promising to me regarding your future career in the field. Moreover, the habits in foreign armies are so different from ours that I don't see what you could possibly learn.

(Heinrich: probably tries to decide whether fratricide is a valid method for making AW king)

how close were Ulrike and AW?

Good grief. He was her favourite brother. Now he seems to have been everyone's favourite brother, other than Wilhelmine's, and he certainly had become her second favourite before the end, but Ulrike was just two years older than AW, so he was the brother she'd grown up with most, and when she married - but I need to paint a larger picture here.

U: About time! I've been cast as Rokoko Alexis Carrington Colby here, with no mention of what I had to put up with, and I'm not talking about Gustav threatening to send me home to Prussia if I didn't publically declare his little bastard wasn't a bastard. Pray do me justice now!

So: Sweden was actually a parliamentary monarchy at that time, meaning the role of Swedish royalty was mainly to represent, whereas true power was in the hand of parliament, with both nobles and middle class representatives.

Swedish parliament: Prussia under its new king seems to be something we need to keep an eye on. On the other hand, we've got our eternal feud with the Russians, so... how about marrying our crown prince to one of your sisters, new Prussian King?

Fritz: You can have Amalie or Ulrike. I'd take Amalie, she's nicer.

Swedish Parliament: That clearly means Amalie would be his biddable spy. We're taking Ulrike. She seems to have a will of her own.

U: Dear beloved brother Wilhelm, my new husband is alright, but would you believe bloody Fritz hasn't seen it fit to pay me my dowry yet? Dad left 30 O00 Taler to me in his last will. That's my money. Please make him forward my money!

AW: Fritz says he's fighting the second Silesian War and has no money to spare. I'll keep trying, but in the meantime, if your husband is fine and is about to become King, surely there are no financial worries?

U: Ha. You know who runs the show here? Nobles and peasants in parliament. They're deciding the budget for our household, not the King. And they keep cutting it down, because for some reason, they think I'm arrogant. I'm thinking I need to buy me some noble support. Now, is Fritz more willing to give me my money? Over here, we hear he's building himself a new palace!

AW: Sorry, couldn't write for a while, had to write to Heinrich and Wilhelmine instead. There's some family drama going on. I, um, let's just say you can try for yourself with Fritz regarding the money, but if you like, I'd totally take up credit with the banks to lend you some.

U: You're sweet, and yes, let's. Now, nobles of Sweden: I know you're for some weird reason into this parliament system, but what makes you think that if you keep treating burghers as if they actually had the same rights as you in government, they won't end up treating you like they do us already? All representation, no power? Think long and hard.

*new party in Sweden with nobles sympathetic to the Queen, or so she thinks* developes.

*some years later*

U: Dearest darling brother Wilhelm, you won't believe what just happened. Parliament insisted on examining my oldest kid Gustav, age 10, for his education. And now they've decided to fire his teacher and take over the education of all my kids, appointing teachers of their own. Could you PLEASE tell Fritz I need money ~~to overthrow parliament~~?

AW: That's truly rotten. I'm horrified. And worried for you. Don't you have anyone to speak for you in parliament? Am, as ever, willing to lend you some of my own money.

U: Don't talk to me of parliament, some ingrates I financed in the past have just turned their back on me. If I send you the crown jewels as well as my own personal jewelry, could you sell it for me? I'm thinking I need money to raise an army. This is clearly a Charles I and Crowmell situation. I'm not losing my head to the bloody peasants.

(She did use those historical examples.)

AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had." (Literal quote.) Look, it sucks, but you did marry into a freedom-loving nation, and honestly - (Literal non paraphrased quote follows again): "If I was a Swedish senator, I would give the King the power to do good, but I would also use the laws to limit his authority to stop him from committing injustices. I would wish he'd be the first servant of the state, the most useful man of the kingdom, and if he worked the hardest, then he would be rewarded accordingly." This is not at all a hint for your husband to be more like Fritz and work harder. But I am sorry for that bit with your kids' teachers, and I promise I'll pawn your jewels for you. Not the crown jewels, though. I just think this is a bad idea.

U: *sends jewels, which get duly pawned by Wilhelm for her, except it turns out some of the jewelry consists of fakes, and the jeweller goes public with this*

Sweden: Scandal! What is the Queen up to pawning her jewelry in Prussia? Could she want to raise an army against parliament? And aren't those our jewels anyway?

U: No, they're mine, given to me at the time of my marriage. Unlike my bloody dowry, Fritz! I hate you all. Except you, Wilhelm. You're a bit naive, but you've been my only sympathetic ear in all of this.

Seven Years War: *breaks out*

U: Dear Wilhelm, please tell Fritz that parliament decided to join the alliance against him, and that it would never have happened if only he'd given me the money to overthrow them and reintroduce absolute monarchy in Sweden, so it is all HIS FAULT.

(Some years later, son Gustav actually does manage a state coup reintroducing absolute monarchy in Sweden. It's the one time he truly makes his mother happy. But alas, there's a scandal on the way....

ETA: Ulrike's "where's my money and my support?" thing of course also provides context for Ulrike's needlings in Wilhelmine's direction. From her pov: Wilhelmine's house burns down? Fritz provides money and art. Wilhelmine wants to travel to France and Italy, the very thing Fritz didn't allow his brothers and which is also expensive? Wilhelmine gets to do it, with Fritzian support. Wilhelmine pisses off Fritz by meeting with his arch nemesis? She gets forgiven. Meanwhile, Ulrike is nominally a queen and thus should be the most important sister, but has to pawn her jewelry, and then it even turns out either her father or her brother had given her fake jewelry back in the day.

Edited 2019-11-25 14:10 (UTC)

The problem is that someone removed all the AW/Heinrich correspondance from the archives. Now it's entirely possible that they burned their respective letters themselves. (After all, that's why we don't have any Wilhelmine letters pre late 1732, even discounting the big letter fire of 1730 - Fritz burned them all at her request for FW reasons - and hardly any Fritz letters - ditto.) But it's also possible the letters were destroyed later. But it's still odd that their correspondances with practically every other family member survives in large parts, including some explicit "Fritz sucks!" letters to brother Ferdinand.

re: AW's sexuality, Ziebura doesn't mention any m/m affairs for him, but she certainly describes him as an ally in this regard. Because, you see, with his usual talent of picking teachers for his kids who were supposed to do one thing and who did then just the opposite when his back was turned, FW hired a steward for teenage AW and his kid brothers Heinrich and Ferdinand who was supposed to ensure their utter chastity, one Lt. von Kreyzen. Writes FW, in a letter still preserved:

To that end, he must never let Prince Wilhelm sleep alone at night, he shall sleep in the same room as the prince, always, and he must see and be responsible for the Prince Wilhelm not to go to whores, fornicate, or commit silent sins. (...) If he visits places with the prince, he is never to leave him alone. The prince is to talk to everyone but never to have any sinful discourses.

I take it "silent sins" means masturbation. Now, you probably guessed where this is going: Kreyzen turns out to be gay. Very gay. As for sinful discourses, here's AW some years later, writing to brother Ferdinand who at that point is the sole one left in von Kreyzen's charge, inviting the both of them to visit him, AW, at the military revue in Spandau, and adding as a postscript/inducement to Kreyzen: "I'm holding a beautiful ass and fleshy tighs ready for him." And at another opportunity, writing to Kreyzen directly: "My prettiest fellows expect your thick priapus full of impatience."

Edited 2019-11-25 07:11 (UTC)

Von Krockow quotes the "Phaeton has fallen" quip from Heinrich post-Kolin, as well as Heinrich being overheard to say, when celebrating his 30th birthday on 18th January 1756 and hearing about Fritz' treaty with England: "The idiot will plunge us all into misery." (Though as opposed to "Phaeton has fallen", which is a letter quote, the later remark doesn't exist in writing but was reported years later, so take it with the due caution of anecdotes written with the benefit of hindsight. Of course, it's possible Heinrich guessed that by allying himself with Britain at a time wheren England and France were duking it out in the American colonies, Fritz had just given the French the last incentive they needed to respond positively to MT's overtures, but then again, everyone, including him, was surprised by the Diplomatic Revolution. Both he and AW found out about the Fritzian decision to invade Saxony pretty much with the rest of the army, but by then this was no longer a surprise (that he didn't tell them about wars he intended to conduct, that is, despite AW being his heir presumptative).

As for AW, it's worth noting that as opposed to his youthful reaction to Fritz invading Silesia, which was basically "You're the coolest, Big Brother! But why didn't you tell me anything! Can I come, too! Wow, just wow!", he in the 1750s had a far darker view of war in general. In 1753, he wrote to the French Ambassador from Spandau:

"I'm getting up at four and am shooting at sparrows until seven. If one looks at this from a philosophical point of view, it sounds ridiculous, but if one considers that it's practice for the annihilation of human life, one wonders: where in this is our humanity? By now, it has become such a well practiced habit in the world to murder each other that the passing of time allows a crime which can't be justified through anything. The defense of our fatherland, the support of our allies can force us to see this with different eyes. That's why we go through the motions here. Add to this a pinch of vanity, and you are getting the picture."

(The French ambassador in question was that same Marquis de Valori who once quipped about Fritz: "Il n'est guère possible d'avoir plus d'esprit, et il est très possible d' en faire un meilleur usage.")

So basically, the dccumented reactions from both him and Heinrich in 1756 as to what this implied for Prussia can be summed up with "Shit, shit, can't we at least persuade the French to like us again, argh, must join the war effort to save the country!"

Von Krockow also quotes this bitter assessment from Heinrich in 1760 (i.e. at a point where AW is already dead but Heinrich himself, even in Fritz' estimation, has emerged as the major military talent of this war)where he writes to Ferdinand: "You are kind enough to ascribe the saving of the state to me; but even if I had all the abilities you are ascribing to me, they wouldn't be of any use, since I can't go against the will of the one who is dragging us all with him. He who commands under the King loses honor and reputation. (...) 'The State', my dear brother, is a name that gets used to throw sand into the eyes of the public; a villain who claims every success for himself and whom one serves like a human sacrifice."

To be fair,

cahn, Fritz famously post Seven Years War toasted Heinrich, in public, as the only general, including himself, who never made any mistakes in said war. How Heinrich reacted to that one is nowhere described. Von Krockow guesses he probably just bowed silently and went home to Rheinsberg.

Edited 2019-11-25 07:42 (UTC)

o you know if I was right about Matilda seeing her most important title as that of Empress of the Romans and the English not being too pleased about this, or if I was misremembering?

Honestly, I don't know, because I never read a non-fiction book about Matilda specifically (non-fiction biographies of her daughter-in-law didn't cover this), but the impression I did get from a variety of novels was that individual acts aside, what the English (or rather, the Norman barons having holdings in England - Matilda/Maude was the granddaughter of William the Conqueror, after all, and talking about "English" here is a bit misleading) were way more resentful about her second marriage than about her using the title from her first one. This was because Geoffrey d'Anjou, nicknamed "Plantagenet", wasn't Norman. He was Angevin. And of course being a man, her being Queen would mean that REALLY an Angevin would be ruling. Competition! Boo! Never mind that Geoffrey was years younger than Matilda, that her father had forced her to marry him and when she tried to leave him after a miserable first year had forced her to go back. (This was before she'd gotten pregnant with future Henry II.)

Now some of the novels also speculate that since Matilda had grown up and thus been schooled in the HRE (having been married with twelve), she might have been used to the type of deference an Emperor did get and thus was set on a confrontation course with her English (or "English", i.e. Norman) subjects to begin with. But to me that's massive projecting of the idea that anything British was automatically less authoritarian and more proto democratic. Her father, after all, was that charming gentlemen you described earlier who wasn't above blinding his grandkids to make a political point. His court was not one where you messed about with the King. What she probably did imprint on was that in her first marriage, her husband the Emperor despite or because of the age difference actually had included her a lot - German wiki says he had her with him on his various journeys, incuding to Italy when he was duking it out with the Pope in one of those power struggles a great many German Emperors had with a great many Popes, she got crowned as Empress as well, and at one point acted as regent for her husband in Italy when he was in the German speaking territories.

Edited 2019-11-25 14:31 (UTC)

FW hired a steward for teenage AW and his kid brothers Heinrich and Ferdinand who was supposed to ensure their utter chastity

Oh LOLOLOL it's Keyserlingk all over again!

cahn, FW did the same thing with Fritz. The guy appointed to sleep next to teenage Fritz and keep him chaste, as well as well-behaved by FW standards in general, ended up being gay (probably? definitely?), well educated and cultured, and named in future Fritz's list of "the 6 I have loved the most."

Man. Whatever the opposite of gaydar is, FW had an unerring instinct for it, didn't he?

Ahh, okay, that makes sense. I saw the bit about foreign armies being useless (lol?), but also a lot about "you're my brother and I don't want you to die and maybe someday but not now," and I extrapolated too much. Thank you for clearing that up! (Their almost total lack of surviving correspondence from this period did not leave me much to work with.)

Good grief. He was her favourite brother.

I facepalmed so hard, you have no idea. Fritz fails ring theory again!

then it even turns out either her father or her brother had given her fake jewelry back in the day.

Oh no. The Hohenzollerns keep getting wackier ~~and more in need of therapists~~!

Thank you for the Ulrike/AW summary!

by then this was no longer a surprise (that he didn't tell them about wars he intended to conduct, that is, despite AW being his heir presumptative)

Going back in time a couple thousand years, to the wars among Alexander's successors, this reminds me of the time Demetrius wanted his father the king, Antigonus, to tell him when he planned to march, and Antigonus quipped, "Why? Are you afraid you alone of all the army will not hear the trumpet?"

No kidding. Incidentally, you probably know this, but von Krockow's double portrait with introductory FW chapter has reminded me again: back when FW took up pastel painting as a late hobby (not least due to being incapacitated so much by his various illnesses), he portrayed every. single. Potsdam. Giant. I mean.

Really? Omg, I knew he painted them, but I had not learned or forgotten it was every single one.

OMG, FW, your kids are all showing signs of being attracted to each other and/or their nieces, and you're drooling over your tall guards, HALP.

And the uncle/niece marriage was still way more functional than the one of that girl's parents. I mean, due to being the youngest of the FW/SD brood, Ferdinand was only eight years older than his niece. (He was born in 1730, the year of doom.) (Something to keep in mind about SD, too, of course, that she was pregnant during some of that year, though by the time Fritz tried to escape baby Ferdinand was already there.) And they actually got along. Meanwhile, his poor older sister Sophie had been married to that same 19 years older Margrave of Schwedt whom Wilhelmine absolutely did not want (nicknamed "the mad Margrave" for good reason), and then, according to Wiki: The relationship of the couple was not happy. Sophia often fled to the protection of her brother King Frederick. The latter did not stop at friendly admonitions, but sent General Meir to Schwedt with unlimited authority to protect the margravine from insult. Eventually they lived in separate places: Sophia lived in the castle Montplaisir, and the Margrave lived in the castle of Schwedt.

Go Fritz, I suppose? Doing something nice for a sibling who isn't Wilhelmine? On the other hand, Wiki also says, re: Fritz and this brother-in-law in general (who was also his cousin): In contrast to his father's policy Frederick II sought to distance himself from his Schwedt cousins, humiliating them at every chance. He made them unwelcome at his court, undermined the margrave's authority in his own dominions by encouraging complaints and lawsuits by his tenants and neighbours and, most effectively, he marginalised the position of the Schwedt brothers within the Prussian army. Margrave Frederick William was removed from command in the army.

....Yeah, Elisabeth Luise (aka the niece) sure grew up in a peaceful family atmosphere, alright.

I knoooow, it's like the author sort of happens to be right by accident! I mean... was he married?... yes... but okay, kind of no... Did he spend time on ~~dysfunctional~~ intimate-sexual relationships? Yes... but... okay, maybe not so much on the sexual part, fine... but...!

Whom did he fall in love with and marry? Wait for it - his niece, daughter of his and Fritz' sister Sophie.

aaaaaaah WHY

Now obviously, saving a human life - especially of a poor guy who just was kidnapped for his body length - is a good thing, but it's still a bit chilling to read all the adults present using this kid.

Argh, yes.

Awwww your translations! I feel like they really get across the character of the different poems and poets -- Fritz's being workable but not quite scanning and Wilhelm's being just, well, cute and sweet and clearly done by a kid <3

Fritz! Encouraging a woman to overrule her man on the throne when it suits you! I'm shocked, simply shocked. Whoever made you believe that would work?

*the ghost of MT is not saying anything at all, but is looking super smug just about now*

"C'était l'image de son père, il en possédait toutes les bonnes qualités, sans en avoir les défauts."

I CAN'T EVEN. Especially with

selenak's further clarification that he was Ulrike's favorite brother too!

Oh wow, that AW quote. :( <3 And Heinrich's too, although in a different more specifically-Fritz-bitter way -- but AW's view of war in general is just heartbreaking to me.

Fritz: You can have Amalie or Ulrike. I'd take Amalie, she's nicer.

Swedish Parliament: That clearly means Amalie would be his biddable spy. We're taking Ulrike. She seems to have a will of her own.

AHAHAHAHA Well, you tried, Fritz...

AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had." (Literal quote.) Look, it sucks, but you did marry into a freedom-loving nation, and honestly - (Literal non paraphrased quote follows again): "If I was a Swedish senator, I would give the King the power to do good, but I would also use the laws to limit his authority to stop him from committing injustices. I would wish he'd be the first servant of the state, the most useful man of the kingdom, and if he worked the hardest, then he would be rewarded accordingly." This is not at all a hint for your husband to be more like Fritz and work harder. But I am sorry for that bit with your kids' teachers, and I promise I'll pawn your jewels for you. Not the crown jewels, though. I just think this is a bad idea.

You know, I can see why AW was everyone's favorite. I think AW is my favorite too. <3

ETA: Ulrike's "where's my money and my support?" thing of course also provides context for Ulrike's needlings in Wilhelmine's direction.

Huh, that makes sense, I guess! BUT STILL.

D: What are you laughing about?
Me: I had no idea that 18thC Sweden was such a hotbed of sensational gossip!

Or maybe someone had already pawned it! /have read waaaaay too much Agatha Christie, half of which has this plot

Heh. I suppose it isn't exactly FW's fault, and of course I'm getting a biased view here with most of my info coming from people who like Fritz and don't like FW :P but he doesn't seem to really have the endearing qualities Fritz does. (And for all his extremely many faults, he did have endearing qualities.)

(This is, of course, a dare for both of you! Prove me wrong :P :D )
(I do not find the Potsdam giants endearing, I find them disturbing.)

OMG. Oh FW. LOL. Everything you tell me about him makes me think more and more that he was repressing all kinds of things :P ("This guy seems ~~attractive~~ ~~like someone I'd like to see around the place~~ like a good steward for my teenage boy!")

WHAT
...yeah, have I mentioned repressed? OMG.

Oh no, she got married to that Margrave? The only things I know about him are what Wilhelmine said in her memoirs, but he... did not sound good. Bad enough that Wilhelmine was like "yeah, I would actually rather hang out with my super abusive parents a while longer than marry you, even given that one of them is abusing me even more for not taking you. Thanks but no thanks."

Oh wow, that's super cool. My French teacher told me about the circumflex but I didn't know about any of the other stuff.

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Page 10 of 16

Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!

Re: Merrie Olde England

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Fritz chronological maps, or a labor of love

Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Merrie Olde England

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Crackfic

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son

Re: Heinrich the Younger, AW's son

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: More Book Reports: AW bio, Fritz and Heinrich double portrait/lengthy essay

Re: French pronunciation