cahn | Opera for Beginners (Part 3 of 3)

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Opera for Beginners (Part 3 of 3)

I talked about Opera for Beginners for my family reunion talk and used much of the advice I was given here, thank you! :)

-I brought speakers, because there isn't much use in giving an opera talk if you can't hear the music! The hilarious thing was that I was not the only one who had audio/audiovisual components to my presentation, but I was the only one who had brought speakers. I had been a little bitter about lugging them all around Montana, but less so when they turned out to be broadly useful :) What was more irritating was that after they worked fine when I tried them out in my office, they didn't work at all for a while when I was trying to give the talk. Finally my cousin's teenager, who was acting as unofficial tech support, suggested rebooting as a last resort, and of course that worked. Sigh.

-A couple of people mentioned talking about where one might go looking for opera. My biggest recommendations to a newbie are the following:
1.The Chandos Opera in English CDs, without which I would still hate opera today. I highly highly recommend all the Mozart ones, particularly the da Ponte operas (Marriage of Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte), and the bel canto comedies (e.g., Barber of Seville, The Elixir of Love), and dis-recommend their Verdi except Don Carlos (for some reason Verdi tends to come out a bit muddled). Their French opera also seems to be very good, and I absolutely adore their Eugene Onegin (which stars Thomas Hampson and Kiri te Kanawa).

2. Met On Demand, which comes with a free 7-day trial. People who know a lot about opera rag on the Met for not being adventurous in its staging and concept, which, fair, but for a beginner, in my opinion, that's exactly what you want, and you can't do better than the Met for gorgeous staging and costumes, great singers, and great videography, which I didn't even know would affect me until I started watching a bunch of these... and... it does actually make a huge difference when watching video. (Watching live is, of course, different.)

-I showed several clips, one of which was a 3-minute clip of Kaufmann/Hampson/Salminen in the auto-da-fe scene from Don Carlo. (Alagna/Keenlyside/Furlanetto is still the whole version of Don Carlo I would recommend, but for auto-da-fe out of context I thought the former was better, not least because it didn't have a giant weeping Jesus in the background.) I explained beforehand the background about how Posa is Prince Carlo's best friend but also has the relationship where he has sworn fealty to King Philip. (I have uploaded the clip here (google drive video clip, ~3 minutes) --

mildredofmidgard, I know music/opera is Not Your Thing but this is the moment in Don Carlo I was talking about, check it out) and my big triumph, as far as I am concerned, is that when the clip ended my cousin cried out, "Oh, that's so sad!" MY WORK HERE IS DONE.

-My other great triumph was that E was curious about what I said about Don Giovanni. Being her, she could not care less about Don G himself -- she was perfectly content with a limited understanding that he was the Bad Guy -- but she was particularly interested in what I said about Don G coming to a sticky end, and asked about it the next day. Once I further explained that there was a singing statue and that in many productions Don G disappeared into flames with the statue at the end, both she and A really wanted to watch it, so that afternoon we all snuggled up on the couch and watched "Don Giovanni, a cenar teco" (this one with Rodney Gilfrey) and they still ask for "the statue opera" on occasion. (That's the only part they have watched or are interested in watching, or that I am interested in playing for them, until they're a lot older. Well, okay, "O statua gentilissima," but that's along the same lines.)

-Since you guys said it was fun for people to recognize music in opera, another short clip I showed was from Thais, because, well, I don't know if it's all Koreans or just my particular family, but all our extended relatives LOOOOOVE Meditation from Thais and all of us cousins who play violin (or piano, if that cousin happened to be near one of the cousins who played violin) have had to play that song approximately six million times, every time a third cousin twice removed came to visit. There was much groaning when the melody was revealed :)

-It turns out my aunt (uncle's wife) really likes opera!!!! We are already making plans to go to Salzburg or Italy sometime and watch opera :D (well, pipe dreams right now... I certainly wouldn't go until my kids are older)

(Part 1 was where I asked for help; Part 2 was an outtake of this post about emoting in opera)

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*waves*

cahn alerted me to your conversations.

re: Katte's protestations of Protestant faith in his last weeks, I would argue that while hoping for clemency from Friedrich Wilhelm might have been one big reason, another was his own family, specifically his own father, to whom hearing Katte died a good Protestant would be a comfort. And one can't exclude the possibility that Katte actually did fall back on the faith of his childhood as he came to realize he would, indeed, die. The descriptions of his death by eyewitnesses (including the most extensive one by Major von Schack) all mention he died praying "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus". The relevant quote from Schack's report, which was written directly after the event (and thus can't be accused of too much hindsight or loss of memory):

Then, he gave his wig to my boy, who gave him a cap, had his vest removed and his neck bandage opened, tore his shirt off himself, free and easy, as if to prepare himself for a serious affair, walked and then knelt down in the sand, pushed the cap above his eyes and started to pray out loud: "Lord Jesus I live for you". Since he had told my boy earlier that he was supposed to blindfold him, but then decided to pull the cap down his eyes himself, the fellow, who was dreadfully upset, still wanted to blindfold him until von Katte waved him away with one head and shook his head. Then, he started to pray again: "Lord Jesus etc." which was not yet over when his head flew away, which my fellow picked up from the ground and put back at its place.

I cannot admire his présence d'ésprit enough. His steadfastness and courage, I will not forget to the end of my days, and I learned a lot by the way he prepared for his death, which I will not want to Forget ever."

The translation into English is my own. If you want to employ Google translate, Theodor Fontane's take on Katte, which originally was published as part of his "Wanderungen durch die Mark Brandenburg" (a travel guide with historical anecdotes, and the extensive Katte sequence comes inevitably when Fontane arrives at Küstrin, where Katte died) is online, here. Fontane, who wrote in the late 19th century, quotes a lot of historical documents which were available by then, and wrote the first Katte-centric take on the tale ever (including full length quotations of various Katte-and-parent letters, as well as Friedrich Wilhelm's full length letter to the judges who'd wanted to spare Katte a death sentence etc.), for, as he said in his preamble, all the previous descriptions of the event had been Friedrich-centric for the obvious reasons, yet to him (Fontane), Katte was the hero of the story. Incidentally, the text I just linked isn't a complete excerpt from Fontane's take on the Katte tragedy but stops short of his remarkable conclusion, which is put online here and guaranteed to infuriate you because Fontane doesn't think it was just sadism or monarchical injustice on Friedrich Wilhelm's part (bear in mind here that Theodor Fontane was by no means an uncritical fan of Prussian monarchs in general or the Prussian System - his novels are sharply critical of both) and takes the King at his word when it comes to the way Friedrich Wilhelm's letter re: the death sentence ends, which is a message the King wanted to be given to Katte:

"When his death sentence is read to Katte by the army tribunal, he's to be told that his royal Majesty is sorry; but that it was better for him to die than for justice to leave the world."

(in the original 18th century German: »Wenn das Kriegs-Recht dem Katten die Sentence publiciret, so soll ihm gesagt werden, daß es Sr. Königlichen Majestät leid thäte; es wäre aber besser, daß er stürbe, als daß die Justiz aus der Welt käme.")

(Incidentally, no, I'm not with Fontane to the extent that I buy Friedrich Wilhelm wasn't motivated by vengefulness re: his son as well, but I do think that wanting Katte to be told that "his royal Majesty is sorry" goes against the idea of FW the gleeful sadist being all "die, boyfriend of my son! Die die die!")

Edited 2019-08-18 07:15 (UTC)

*waves* Hi! Happy to see you contributing to the discussions in my small fandom. :D

re: Katte's protestations of Protestant faith in his last weeks, I would argue that while hoping for clemency from Friedrich Wilhelm might have been one big reason, another was his own family, specifically his own father, to whom hearing Katte died a good Protestant would be a comfort.

YES. Somewhere in some comment I said he was playing to 3 audiences, and I mentioned comforting his family as one of them. I do think that he was trying to present himself as a really good Protestant, which that last letter to his father makes really clear. And I meant everything about his last moments, including the "Lord Jesus."

Plus my initial reading, before I saw the "I only said it because it was fashionable!" argument, was "there are no atheists in foxholes." I.e. his philosophical questioning of Christianity may not have been strong enough to withstand the prospect of imminent death, or at least he may have been immersed in Christianity enough to be hedging his bets. (Now, I don't personally believe there are no atheists in foxholes, but I do believe that Pascal's Wager can kick in under moments of stress, depending on the individual in question.) It's still entirely possible. I just don't think we should take his protestation that he was never an atheist at face value, is all, or that he wouldn't have gone back to being an atheist in 1740 if he'd gotten that reprieve.

I also think that if he was constantly singing hymns and praying out loud, that was not only religious ostentation, but a way of mastering the fear by giving himself something to concentrate on, something soothing. (I tried to work this into a fic, but it hasn't clicked yet.) He was really clearly doing everything he could to keep from breaking down, and I think that was very much for his own sake too. As much as forcing Friedrich to watch was horrifically traumatic for Friedrich, I see no reason not to accept Katte's statement that it was a great consolation for him in his last moments.

Incidentally, no, I'm not with Fontane to the extent that I buy Friedrich Wilhelm wasn't motivated by vengefulness re: his son as well, but I do think that wanting Katte to be told that "his royal Majesty is sorry" goes against the idea of FW the gleeful sadist being all "die, boyfriend of my son! Die die die!"

I honestly think that several things were going through FW's head. One was a real fear of plots. One was gleeful sadism (telling Katte that "his royal Majesty is sorry" is not, imo, much better than telling Katte's grandfather that "he deserves to be torn to pieces with red hot pincers, but I'm so 'merciful' I'm just beheading him"). And another was legalistic rationalization. Also, there's vengefulness for past acts, yes, but more than that I think there's evidence for a campaign to break his son's will for purposes of future compliance. And that's where I think the rationalized sadism comes in. (Rationalized because I'm sure he really believed this was in Prussia's best interests as well as the immortal soul of his son; sadism because of things like being very emphatic with everyone at Küstrin that he wanted Fritz with a "broken heart.")

guaranteed to infuriate you because Fontane doesn't think it was just sadism or monarchical injustice on Friedrich Wilhelm's part

I've seen these arguments, and more than that I think I've seen this specific passage (I did put a lot of Fontane through Google Translate). It honestly doesn't infuriate me as much as the "It's a good thing FW did what he did, because that's what turned Frederick the Effeminate Flute-Player into Frederick the Great Prussian Expansionist!" arguments, grrr. Or the people who think FW was justified in his abuse of his son and get mad at Friedrich for trying to escape or hoping his father would die. Especially the ones who give young Friedrich and Wilhelmina a hard time about keeping an eager eye on their father's declining health, and then are totally sympathetic to Henry wanting Friedrich dead asap later in life. One or the other, people! Either it's justifiable or it's not.

Anyway. In general, I have spared cahn a comprehensive take on all my thinking on the issues at hand and their basis in the evidence in these comments, otherwise they would be so long no one would ever finish them, and she is already being nice to let me go on these long rambles and reply to them. :D But I'm glad to have the chance to expand a little (not completely, I need to go write some Katte fic) in chatting with you.

And that's where I think the rationalized sadism comes in. (Rationalized because I'm sure he really believed this was in Prussia's best interests as well as the immortal soul of his son; sadism because of things like being very emphatic with everyone at Küstrin that he wanted Fritz with a "broken heart.")

That's an excellent summary of what was likely going on in the King. I would also speculate on some internalized sexual hang-ups in that, let's face it, Friedrich Wilhelm was never happier than in male company and absolutely awkward and uncomfortable with women. (And not just when they were presented nude to him a la what August the Strong did in Dresden when FW and Fritz were visiting.) I would say "internalized homophobia" except that FW loathed heterosexual profligacy a la his father or August intensely as well, hence all those rants against mistresses (and he wasn't much happier with Fritz flirting with the Countess Orzelska in Dresden than he was with anything else, instead of going "yay, at least the boy shows heterosexual interest!). Otoh, all those children he and Sophia Charlotte had demonstrate that he wasn't impotent. So you have someone to whom any sexual outlet other than marriage is taboo, whose marriage has degenerated into constant emotional warfare, who might or might not feel drawn to men sexually as well as emotionally anyway - and I wouldn't be surprised that the sight of his son in love with anyone, especially (but not exclusively) a man, was just rubbing it in and additionally made him furious.

I have seen the "FW as repressed homosexual/bisexual" theory, have countered with his resentment of Fritz showing any heterosexual interests either, and in short agree with you about the generalized sexual hang-ups that we really can't untangle from this distance. It can be incredibly hard to tell apart homophobia, misogyny, and general sexual repression due to Christianity, and I think FW is one of those cases where I don't feel comfortable drawing conclusions more specific than "not a happy man." His Kinsey score will have to remain a mystery as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't be surprised that the sight of his son in love with anyone, especially (but not exclusively) a man, was just rubbing it in and additionally made him furious.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

(Have also encountered the FW as woobie take, albeit not in fiction. I am torn between trying not to be a total hypocrite on the "Fritz was an abuser because he was abused and so we sympathize with him, but FW was just an abuser and so we hate him!" front, but also the many reasons it's complicated and their situations and reactions are not exactly equivalent, and also this is just my fandom and I can be wildly unfair if I want. I'm not condoning any behavior, voting anyone into power, or supporting anyone who harmed anyone living today. I'm just writing fic that no one will read about my lifelong problematic fave. :P)

Related: I think it's impossible to untangle "Fritz had an inherently low sex drive because some people do" from "Fritz had sexual repression traumatized into him" from this distance. It can be hard enough for people actively working on the question in therapy to arrive at a definitive answer for themselves, and a lot of people go back and forth! I just find myself hoping it was the former. We also don't know how much of the sex that was attributed to him he actually had, of course, so there's that.

Quite. So your take on Fredersdorff/Fritz? One German historian referred to Fredersdorff as "the Prussian Pompadour" (meaning not just favourite, but "favourite who at first has a sexual romance with the King which later fades away but remains emotionally important throughout the King's life, and is politically involved in ruling the Kingdom till death"). And Fritz did name him as one of the six people in his life he truly loved.

On a less serious and more "bizarre episode in the lives of German Royalty" note, the whole Dresden interlude is so bizarre that I feel we have to acquaint

cahn with it. Since according to Wilhelmine, it went down roughly thusly:

"And then there was the time Dad and Fritz went on a state visit to Dresden when Fritz was 16. King August got them drunk, showed them around and then presented them with a naked beauty. Dad went scarlet and covered Fritz' eyes with his hands. Wasn't very effective. The naked beauty turned out to be the Countess Orzelska who was August's illegitimate daughter and his mistress. She also slept with one of her half brothers. And with Fritz, whom she deflowered during that visit. And here you thought we were the most dysfunctional German royals of our time! P.S. I'm not publishing this until years after my death."

HOLY COW.
Was she actually his illegitimate daughter and his mistress?!

Who were the six people?

As to the mistress part, I think the historical consensus is "can't be proven one way or the other". August had up to 200 known illegitimate kids, and she was definitely a favourite, but "having sex with anything that moves" doesn't necessarily translate into "being into incest as well". It certainly was gossip at the time, hence Wilhelmine mentioning it casually. At any rate, she was an interesting character; wiki sums up why here. (An entry which also illustrates why a gay boy still uncertain about his sexuality might have been drawn to her. He retained good memories and wrote to Voltaire decades later: "In my tenderest youth, she inspired two passions in me - you may have guessed, it was love and poetry. This little Miracle of nature, equipped with all the charms, had taste and tendresse and tried to share both with me. I succeeded with the lovemaking, but not so much with the poetry." (Disclaimer: it's always possible he was het-posing for Voltaire, of course, but given how insulting he could be about most people, especially women, this is still a remarkable Quote imo.)

The six: over to Mildred of Midgard.

So! The six people is an interesting list. It never made any sense to me until I went and read the original letter. It's not a list of the six people Frederick the Great loved most over the course of his life, as it's usually presented. It's a list of men living and serving in 1741 (i.e., not even halfway through his life, though I feel like the list is front-loaded in any case, so that may not matter too much) whose services he was recommending to his brother and heir presumptive in case he died in battle, and about whom he added the note "whom I have loved the most in my life". That explains why, for instance, Wilhelmine doesn't make the top six.

For this reason, the names won't mean anything to you, Cahn, but they're Keyserlingk, Jordan, Wartensleben, Hacke, Fredersdorf, & Eichel. (Funnily enough, I had the letter in question in my Chrome bookmarks, so I was able to pull it right up.)

Disclaimer: it's always possible he was het-posing for Voltaire, of course, but given how insulting he could be about most people, especially women, this is still a remarkable Quote imo.

Remarkable, but not totally out of character. Friedrich, in between vast amounts of misogyny, did sprinkle in some complimentary words about individual women (including ones he wasn't related to) with whom he had good relationships.

Of course, het-posing was also a thing that I'm pretty sure he did from time to time. Especially regarding his wife while his father was alive. It all makes it super hard to tell what's real and what's not.

My own guess is that he experimented with women when he was younger, possibly including the Countess, and decided against. Of course, he may have done the same with men and just taken longer to decide he was homoromantic and asexual. I am agnostic on whether his marriage was ever consummated. My guess is no, but I have low confidence in that guess. Pretty high confidence that EC would not have told on him, though, which makes it more plausible.

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cahn - 2019-08-20 01:52 (UTC) - Expand

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mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-20 04:21 (UTC) - Expand

The six: over to Mildred of Midgard.

Also, I'm just chortling here at how you *knew* I'd be on top of this one.

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selenak - 2019-08-20 04:58 (UTC) - Expand

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mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-20 05:03 (UTC) - Expand

Oh, and I have something operatic for you. Like her brother, Wilhelmine also composed. In her opera Argenore, there is a significant difference between the print Version and the autograph version written in Wilhelmine's hand of the aria which Ormondo, unjustly condemned to execution, sings. This opera was first produced by her (in Bayreuth, the principality she'd married into) in 1740, i.e. exactly ten years after Katte's death, and here's what Ormondo sings in her handwritten Version: "I will fall, but you/cruel tyrant/will at the end repent too late/and you will say that my life/is admired instead of a pitied/ A test to the strong soul/calm and steadfast/enduring unfair punishment/for a guilt of which one is innocent." In the recitative before the aria, Ormondo sings: "That I don't want to die now isn't because of cowardice, but because I hope to see the ending of a despotic, cruel and thankless King".

(The printed Version of Argenore has the aria in question with a completely different text: "I fall, but I am like the high and proud oak, moving all the earth around it when it falls" etc.)

The aria in Question.

Wow, that is... something. Ouch. And, ahahahaha, the censors got to it?

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selenak - 2019-08-20 06:18 (UTC) - Expand

Quite. So your take on Fredersdorff/Fritz?

My canonical take is, as usual, agnostic on the issue of whether they had sex. I interpret Friedrich as intensely homoromantic with a low to nonexistent sex drive (again, unclear why). My fanon is that he had strong feelings for Fredersdorf and was semi-attracted in that he liked to look more than touch (I mean sexually--eighteenth century mores mean I imagine a fair bit of non-sexual touch). But that is not something I would defend as canonical, just one of many possible interpretations that I have selected for the character in my head.

The whole Dresden adventure is a riot from beginning to end, much like Wilhelmine's memoirs in general. *popcorn.gif*

This is for

cahn. A very shortend and paraphrased summary would go thusly:

Let me tell you all about my family. Dad: on the one hand, was always very proud that he singlehandedly changed Prussia from a bankrupt joke to a respected kingdom. Otoh, he was horrible to live with. I won’t run out of stories of him being violently abusive towards Fritz, me and Mom in this volume, reader.

Mom: on the one hand, Fritz & self owe her all for her appreciation for the arts, which Dad was always against. And she had a hard time with him. Otoh, I resent Mom, too. Not least for putting us on a war footing with Dad by making us promise we’d never marry anyone but our English cousins, and making us choose between him and her even before he went nuts on us. (She never forgave me for eventually marrying someone else, either.) Also, until I was eleven, my governess kept abusing me, and did Mom ever notice? Nope. It needed Fritz‘ governess to point out to her that mine would cripple me for life if she continued to be in charge of me.

Fritz: my dearest brother, whom I’m emotionally all over the place about, due to writing my memoirs during the three years interlude we were estranged. He was wonderful until he got on the throne. Thereafter, my moments of WTF, Fritz? Keep increasing.

*explanatory footnote from the Fritz/Wilhelmine correspondence about their three years estrangement: Fritz: you betrayed me by meeting Maria Theresia.
Wilhelmine: It was just the one time! She’s the empress, passing through Bayreuth, how could I not?
Fritz: You LIKED her, you traitor. She LIKED you. I hate you forever.
Wilhelmine: WTF, Fritz?*

My younger siblings: get only cameos in these memoirs. Like in this rare non-violent story of what happenened when Dad became a fan of the Preacher Mr. Francke, who made him feel he wasn’t pious enough. Original quote follows:

„Every afternoon, the King held us a sermon. His lackey sang a choral, in which we all had to join. The sermon we had to listen to with the same attention as if an apostle was speaking. My brother and myself got the giggles, and often, we just had to laugh. Then we were chastized by all the condemnation of the church, which we had to endure with repentant faces, hard as that was. In short, this dog Francke was at fault for us having to live like Trappists for a while. This exaggareted pietism even made the King hit on an even stranger idea. He decided to abdicate in favour of my brother. He only wanted to reserve an income of 10 000 Taler per annum for himself and wanted to retire to Wusterhausen with the Queen and his daughters. „There,“ he said, „I shall pray to God and organize the sowing of the fields while my wife and my daughters will work in the household. You,“ he addressed me, „are skillful, so you’ll be in charge of the clothing, sewing and laundry. Friederike is thrifty, she’ll supervise the kitchen. Charlotte will go to the market to shop for food, and my wife will be in charge of the younger children’s education.“ He even started to write down instructions for my brother.“

Prussian royal family: WTF, Dad?

FW: Okay, Fritz & self just got invited to Dresden, guess we’ll have to postpone the godly existence as normal pious citizens.

*Dresden interlude* Ensues.

FW: Maybe Wilhelmine should marry King August.
Sophia Dorothea: The guy who’s her godfather, spawned roughly 300 kids already and is potentially sleeping with at least one of them?

FW: You’re just hung up about those British marriages, aren’t you.

Edited 2019-08-19 15:46 (UTC)

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-19 16:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

selenak - 2019-08-20 05:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-20 05:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-20 05:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

selenak - 2019-08-20 06:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

cahn - 2019-08-20 16:51 (UTC) - Expand

Meanwhile, in Austria...

selenak - 2019-08-20 14:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Meanwhile, in Austria...

cahn - 2019-08-20 16:59 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

cahn - 2019-08-20 03:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

mildred_of_midgard - 2019-08-20 04:31 (UTC) - Expand

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cahn - 2019-08-20 04:55 (UTC) - Expand

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Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs

selenak - 2019-08-20 06:08 (UTC) - Expand

So your take on Fredersdorff/Fritz?

I have been reminded of the existence of the term "queerplatonic partnership." That's my take on Fredersdorf/Fritz, if you ask me to speculate beyond my more methodologically rigorous "totally agnostic" answer.

Okay, so something I've been wondering about, and hoping you might know. I've seen Fredersdorf described as one of "two or three people" that Fritz used du/tu with. (Fredersdorf, always appearing on these shortlists. ;) ) Who on earth are the others, do you know? Admittedly, I haven't done a comprehensive elimination of all Fritz's correspondents, but I looked at what to me were the most obvious candidates, and couldn't find another example. He's vousing everyone I can find! (It actually made me wonder if he had a different visceral reaction to "du" than "tu", in the same way that profanity often doesn't strike you as nearly as offensive in your non-native language.)

I'm currently brushing up my Fritz knowledge by reading through a biography I hadn't read before, and though I'm only at the second Silesian war, the author has already quoted letters to several recipients where he's using du/tu - Wilhelmine (that I knew; from my recollection of their correspondance, they keep switching between tu and vous), Keyserling and in one case (the "You're my heir if I kick it in this battle" letter) August Wilhelm, though it's strictly vous with August W. on other occasions.

In any case: 18th century nobility throughout Europe was Vous/Ihr/Sie all the way, at least in writing, when talking to their nearest and dearest; Maria Theresia wrote "Vous" to Marie Antoinette throughout, and so did Joseph, though several anecdotes have it they used "du" when actually talking to her, for example.

A generation post Fritz, the explosion of German literature he so disdainfully ignored contributed to changing that. All the Sturm und Drang poets were really into calling each other Du. In literature, you have Carlos asking (very urgently) Posa to call him Du in Schiller's Don Carlos (I don't know how much of this passage made it into translation,

cahn at their first reunion in the play because he can't bear the distance of Sie/Ihr. It's a sign of their different social standing that Faust in their second encounter says Du to Gretchen already while she still says Ihr to him. (And a sign they've had sex when she switches to Du as well.) And so forth.

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Wilhelmine's memoirs

Fredersdorf

Re: Fredersdorf

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