Entry tags:
Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 48
Some awesome historical RPF ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
candyheartsex stories for meeeeee (or by me, in one tiny case) with historical characters! I'm just going to note whom the stories are about here. They are all so good!!
Anne Boleyn/Catherine of Aragorn
Frances Howard and Frances Coke (or: James I's court was basically a HOTBED of scandal, omg)
And two that are also historical RPF but also consistent with the Jude Morgan novel The King's Touch, which is an excellent historical novel narrated by James ("Jemmy") Scott, Duke of Monmouth, Charles II's illegitimate son.
Princess Henrietta of England (Charles II's sister and wife of Philippe I duc d'Orleans)
James of Monmouth/William/Mary
candyheartsex stories for meeeeee (or by me, in one tiny case) with historical characters! I'm just going to note whom the stories are about here. They are all so good!!Anne Boleyn/Catherine of Aragorn
Frances Howard and Frances Coke (or: James I's court was basically a HOTBED of scandal, omg)
And two that are also historical RPF but also consistent with the Jude Morgan novel The King's Touch, which is an excellent historical novel narrated by James ("Jemmy") Scott, Duke of Monmouth, Charles II's illegitimate son.
Princess Henrietta of England (Charles II's sister and wife of Philippe I duc d'Orleans)
James of Monmouth/William/Mary
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
"Günte" - I'm now wavering between "günstig" and "gut" - "günstig" today in modern German is mostly used to signify getting something for a modest price when shopping, but in context and in 18th century German it just means "favourably", as in, "favourably provided for".
"Carl noch CRXX liegt" - I'm now guessing "crank" i.e. "krank" in modern spelling. Maybe Anderson is sick? (I'm assumung Carl is his first name?) Anyway, with that guess, I've also gone with the passive, i.e. "it hasn't been determined yet" not "Carl hasn't determined/decided yet" - the phrasing is ambiguous in German and allows for both.
Oh, and I see "hof" as shorthand, i.e. "hof.", for "höfisch". Courtly, the circumstances at court. But that's how I interpreted the meaning earlier, too.
Thus this is my updated version:
Illustrious Sir, honored Secret Councillor!
Sir, I cannot hide the good fortune to which his Majesty our gracious King has raised me, but want to announce it as you've always shown friendship towards me: that his Majesty has been so gracious as to raise me to your Grace's position, and I do not doubt you will participate in my happiness. However, I thoroughly lament and and await in sadness the hour at which I shall lose Your Grace and your friendship, as you're reported to be so very ill.
And as I have not yet acquainted myself with all the courtly circumstances, but your Grace as an old professional knows all about it, I flatter myself that your Grace due to our old friendship will be so kind as to enlighten me as much as possible. In this expectation, I have the honour to call myself with gerat respect, your Grace -
P.S. In three dayys, I 'll have know the complete report on the cause of my promotion, mon tres cher compere, and will send it then, as Carl is still sickly and it hasn't been decided yet whether he will become a lackey again.
As Your Grace won't be needing your Secretary Mr. Gentze in these current times, through whom your Grace has conducted your French correspondance, and will want to see the poor devil favourably provided for, His Majesty has advised me to take a man into my service for this purpose; so I beseech Your Grace to kindly let me have this man.
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Good to know! The reason it didn't make sense to me was "könte", which made me think that he was saying there was a *possibility* of losing Fredersdorf, whereas "Stunde" seemed pretty definite.
"Carl noch CRXX liegt" - I'm now guessing "crank" i.e. "krank" in modern spelling.
Hmm. I'm not seeing that, so I'm going to ask
Maybe Anderson is sick? (I'm assumung Carl is his first name?)
Hmm. I don't actually know his first name. Because Leining later refers to him as Herr Anderson, I was assuming it wasn't the same guy, and that this Carl is the Carl Pirch who shows up in Fritz's correspondence with Fredersdorf as Carel, and whom I incorporated into one of my fics.
But if it's unclear who's undecided about whether Carl becomes a lackey again, Carl or Fritz, it could be Fritz debating whether Carl Anderson gets recalled from disgrace. But based on the names, I think it's still "Carel" Pirch.
Reminder who Carel is:
- Carel the page, who gets mentioned repeatedly in several of the later letters, was Carl Friedrich von Pirch, born on October 12th 1739, who was hired in 1754 as the King's page for ten Taler monthly salary (at last a Fritizian page salary! I always wanted to know); he remained with Fritz into the 7 Years War but managed to mishandle a loaded gun which exploded (this actually happened a lot, believe it or not, I remember it from Füssel's 7 Years War book) and thus got himself killed in 1757
Oh, and I see "hof" as shorthand, i.e. "hof.", for "höfisch". Courtly, the circumstances at court. But that's how I interpreted the meaning earlier, too.
Ahh, right you are. I don't see any signs of abbreviation, but it is a lowercase 'h', not a capital. It's just an unusually large one. (See, this is why professional-grade work is so unlikely from me.) I've updated that in the doc where I'm collecting the latest versions of everything.
Thank you for your help! I'll try to keep the transcriptions coming, however slowly.
ETA: Oh, I'm translating
P.S. In three dayys, I 'll have know the complete report on the cause of my promotion
as
P.S. In three days, I 'll have the honor to write the complete report on the cause of my promotion
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Speaking of context, though - I can't make real sense of it anyway. What does Carl have to do with Leining's ability to write to Fredersdorf three days later?
Also:
- definitely "Stunde" IMO (which is related to when he's in a very bad way, which then opens up the possibility that he could die?)
- you are missing an "e" in "entreißen" (does Kurrent transcript have "ß"? Or did that come from the Kurrent "ss" in the first place?)
- I think the o in "practious" is a "c"?
- Are you sure about "fester" before Hochachtung at the end? Because that looks like "stetter" to me, as in "steter", but I'm not sure if that's a viable spelling for the word at the time, it's not really phonetic.
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
I'd forgotten I uploaded these where you could see them. How convenient. Also your dedication. <333
But I'm also kind of stumped tbh. The first letter in particular is a mystery - I can see why you'd go with a C, because everything else fits worse, but it sure doesn't look like any of the other Cs in the very same paragraph.
Those other C's are in the Latin script, though. The comparable characters I found that made me think this might be a "C" (or "c") are:
which I read as "gnädiger Conig" and "Ehrliche Cerl".
I'm taking those as 'c's rather than 'k's, since he makes his lowercase 'k' like this:
which I read as "könte",
and his uppercase 'K' like this:
which I read as "allergnädigster Konig".
Tell me if you disagree with my readings or reasoning here!
As for the rest of your reading, I also see a 'u' in there, and the 'm' makes sense (as a letter, not as a word).
Maybe a version of "krum[m]"? But what would that even mean?
You got me!
- you are missing an "e" in "entreißen" (does Kurrent transcript have "ß"? Or did that come from the Kurrent "ss" in the first place?)
Both fixed, thank you!
- I think the o in "practious" is a "c"?
OMMGGG ILU. You have no idea how long I spent trying to make sense of that! I even googled "practious", got a few hits in older books, and went, "Okay..." But "practicus" is a nice sensible word! Thank you!
Truly, it takes a village to transcribe a letter.
- Are you sure about "fester" before Hochachtung at the end? Because that looks like "stetter" to me, as in "steter", but I'm not sure if that's a viable spelling for the word at the time, it's not really phonetic.
I am sure of nothing; by the time I got to the last line, my attention was wandering.
*checks*
Yep, I read "stetter" too! Single/double letters are interchangeable enough that I'm just going to go with it. I'll update the translation accordingly.
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Also, I've been thinking about it, and "krum(m) liegen" could mean that the issue with him isn't "straightened out" yet?
All that said, there's another issue here: are you sure that's all the same hand? Because when I looked at this letter, I kind of assumed that the main text was written by a secretary in a very nice, picture-perfect Kurrent, and that Leining only added the one PS on his own, because some of the letters are really different! I haven't looked at any of the other letters recently, but just compare the two "PS" in this one, or the "E" in Ehre, a couple of lines apart at the end - Leining's has that little extra curl at the beginning, whereas the other one is just a straight line.
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Well, that's what I thought! But I'm so used to seeing 'C' for 'K' in the 18th century that I just went with it. But I admit, not on these two particular words, that I can remember. So you may be on to something.
just with the curl somewhat higher.
*squints* One with the curl at the top of the line instead of the bottom, I would say. I have a hard time seeing it, and I was trying to take it as the basic shape of a Latin C but with an extra loop. But since I have to admit I've never (confidently) seen Conig or Cerl, I'm willing to go with your reading! I'll update the doc
That still leaves us with "Krum liegt", but hey, progress.
Also, I've been thinking about it, and "krum(m) liegen" could mean that the issue with him isn't "straightened out" yet?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Huh, the Digitales Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache gives me:
krumm liegen, wie in einem kurzen bette; bildlich von ärmlichem 'eingeschränktem' leben: mir hat nie jemand was geschenkt. aber ich habe auch immer lieber krumm gelegen, als dasz ich jemand hätte merken lassen, wo mich der schuh drükte.
I mean, it's nice to know it has a meaning, but I'm not convinced a life of hardship makes sense here either. You got anything?
More old dictionaries are giving me "suffer hunger," which is probably just the same idea, not enough money.
Plenty of hits for "krummliegen" as to save up money for something, along similar lines of not having enough money.
But I'm still struggling to figure out what Carl's financial struggles would have to do with Leining not being able to send a report yet. It made more sense when he was sick!
There's got to be some meaning out there that we're not getting.
All that said, there's another issue here: are you sure that's all the same hand?
No, I'm pretty sure it's *not* all the same hand. Sorting out the differences in each hand was just more dimensions of Sudoku than I was prepared to play. :P Thank you for keeping me honest!
I have a feeling we'll be playing this game again next May, finessing that last 0.01% of undeciphered characters and scanning for typos and Americanisms. :D
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
ETA: I went looking for our worst speller who talks about sickness, i.e. Fritz writing to Fredersdorf, in hopes of precedent, but no, even he spells it better than that ("kranck", which is very common in this period).
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Re: Leining to Fredersdorf: Letter 1, take 2 - Translation
Felis, transcription help?
1. Can you see the image?
2. Can you read the word? Context is "Carl noch XXXX liegt," and see this thread for the rest. If you want a snapshot of more of the surrounding text for handwriting comparison, let me know!