Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 48

[cahn]

Some awesome historical RPF candyheartsex stories for meeeeee (or by me, in one tiny case) with historical characters! I'm just going to note whom the stories are about here. They are all so good!!

Anne Boleyn/Catherine of Aragorn
Frances Howard and Frances Coke (or: James I's court was basically a HOTBED of scandal, omg)

And two that are also historical RPF but also consistent with the Jude Morgan novel The King's Touch, which is an excellent historical novel narrated by James ("Jemmy") Scott, Duke of Monmouth, Charles II's illegitimate son.

Princess Henrietta of England (Charles II's sister and wife of Philippe I duc d'Orleans)
James of Monmouth/William/Mary

Comments

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Would that be a free black man or a slave, what do we think?

Interesting question. Both England and the Netherlands claimed that there were no slaves in their countries, only in their colonies abroad, but this was exaggerated. So: probably free, maybe a slave.

I still would love to know who the black boy was holding the umbrella over toddlers Wilhelmine and Fritz in that painting of them, especially since a younger black boy, possibly the same person, is seen doing just that two years earlier for FW's and SD's first baby (before the later died).

Agreed. He's the one wearing a silver collar that probably means he was a slave, as I recall.

Keppel pretending to not have had dinner with Peter: Do we know whether FW believed him? (I doubt it.)

I'd be shocked, given the sheer amount of repetition in these documents that he *totally did*, and given FW's need to blame people for helping Wretched Son and Wretched Son's Accomplices.

Anyway, clearly Peter the page must have made a good impression back in the day if Peter the Fugitive is wined and dined and helped.

Yeah, I get the impression Peter was not outgoing and charismatic in the way Katte, Algarotti, and Keyserling were, but quietly likeable. He collects friends and helpers.

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[selenak]

Lehndorff waves his "Team Keith Forever!" banner.

Seriously, though, between this and Knobelsdorff, who by all accounts was a "doesn't suffer fools gladly" type of person, liking Peter enough to leave him his library and so forth, not to mention Caroline sponsoring him not just that one time upon arrival but until he's off to Portugal, he clearly came across as very sympathetic and even improved upon acquaintance. (As opposed to wowing people at once like more extrovert people do, but not necessarily forever.) It occurs to me that the only one who didn't like him was Wilhelmine, and she has an obvious bias when it comes to her brother's boyfriends (except Voltaire ;) ).

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Team Peter forever. <333

Also, Jordan liked him enough to be chatting about baby talk with him in that one letter.

And both Lehndorff and Hanway independently report that when Fritz gave Peter money on two separate occasions (1750 and 1753), "this incident gained the king applause, in proportion to the great love and esteem which every one has for Mr. KEITH," (Hanway) or that it "especially pleases all decent people" that Peter received a gift (Lehndorff). I did always wonder from Lehndorff's wording if some people Lehndorff didn't like *weren't* pleased, or if that's just a way of saying, "Everyone I talked to was pleased, because they're decent!" And of course both Lehndorff and Hanway are Peter's friends and biased.

But regardless, neither Lehndorff nor Hanway had to comment that a lot of other people were made happy by Keith getting rewarded if it weren't true. They could have just said they themselves were happy. Especially Lehndorff writing in his diary for himself.

So I'm getting the impression that yeah, Peter clearly came across as very sympathetic and even improved upon acquaintance.

It occurs to me that the only one who didn't like him was Wilhelmine, and she has an obvious bias when it comes to her brother's boyfriends (except Voltaire ;) ).

Haha. Sadly, historians have been less kind, since he was always complaining about their einzige king. I remember Carlyle in particular being pretty harsh to Peter.

But even Wilhelmine gave him credit for being intelligent and genuinely devoted to Fritz (as opposed to using him cold-bloodedly).

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[cahn]

"this incident gained the king applause, in proportion to the great love and esteem which every one has for Mr. KEITH," (Hanway) or that it "especially pleases all decent people" that Peter received a gift (Lehndorff). I did always wonder from Lehndorff's wording if some people Lehndorff didn't like *weren't* pleased, or if that's just a way of saying, "Everyone I talked to was pleased, because they're decent!"

aw that's great, i love that, especially the Hanway quote.

heh, Lehndorff, i wonder if there was, like, one person who was mean-spirited about it?

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Lol, probably someone who *didn't* get money and thought they deserved it more.

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[selenak]

Sounds plausible! When I put "Lehndorff doesn't like them" + "possibly in need or want of money" together, the two answers that immediately spring to mind are Lehndorff's colleague among EC's staff, Count Wartenberg the sugar horder, and Heinrich's boyfriends, most of whom were notorious spendthrifts, and Lehndorff would have spend time with all of the above during 1756 when he writes that glowing eloge to Peter the deserving of good fortune.

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Sounds plausible! Who was Heinrich's boyfriend in 1753? Was Wartenberg around yet? That was when the money-gifting event happened (distinct from the eulogy entry in 1756).

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[selenak]

1753 was the year of Reisewitz (the one who overspent Heinrich's money on Rheinsberg and got into serious debts of his own until he killed himself) and Lamberg. Since 1752/1753 is also when Lehndorff is newly in love and considers two days spent away from Heinrich the height of inhumanity, he can't stand either.

Wartenberg: I don't know, but since he's older than Lehndorff who once called him "the Queen's eternal Count von Wartenberg", I bet he was.

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you for clarifying the chronology! I bet the indebted Reisewitz was muttering about Peter getting money, inspiring Lehndorff to write "which especially pleases all DECENT people" in his diary. :P

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

She liked Algarotti too, I just remembered!

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[cahn]

but i mean everyone likes voltaire! until getting in a big fight with him, of course...

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[selenak]

Maupertuis: I never liked him!! I merely tolerated him for Émilie's sake!
(Selena: Your biographer says you two got along well in ye early days.)

Guy-Auguste de Rohan: I had my servants beat him up when that bastard got cheeky and dared to reply "Je commence mon nom, monsieur, vous finissez le vôtre“ to my question where he got his silly new name from!

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: I never met him, but I wrote to my Dad I was glad he died a painful death when I got the news anyway. Just because I couldn't stand my boss the Prince Bishop doesn't mean I wasn't a died-in-the-wool Catholic!

Fredersdorf: Je ne parle pas le Francais.

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[cahn]

hahahaha. i guess Rohan had the fight first...

i bet Fredersdorf liked him for the first five minutes!

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[cahn]

Yeah, I get the impression Peter was not outgoing and charismatic in the way Katte, Algarotti, and Keyserling were, but quietly likeable. He collects friends and helpers.

aw i really like this

Re: Hunting Peter Keith: Meinerzhagen, August 18

[mildred_of_midgard]

Btw, I looked into when Keppel was in Berlin, and it was for a few months in 1727. This helps push back the earliest date I had evidence for Peter being a page at court. It also tells us that when he was making a positive impression on Keppel, he was 16 years old. Not bad, Peter, not bad.