Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 47

[cahn]

We haven't had a new post since before December 25, so obligatory Yuletide link to this hilarious story of Frederick the Great babysitting his bratty little brother, with bonus Fritz/Fredersdorf!

Comments

Re: 1764-1772 Foreign policy: France: Concerning Poland

[selenak]

From the safe distance of centuries, this is hilarious. Including that true 19th century hypocritical snobbishness:

The Empress of Russia continues to exhibit a spectacle to Europe which we could not have expected from a princess born in a more civilised region than Siberia.

Yeah, because France, GB, Spain and other European powers installing and deposing governments in countries they wish to colonize as an early move to that end goal is ever so much more civilized. Admit it, Monsieur Le Duc, what you object to is Catherine doing this to white people. Also She exterminates the race of the true sovereigns of her own empire is hilarious coming from a representative of La Grande Nation post 1789. I mean, it wasn't just the lawyers gone Jacobin, very high born Philippe "L'Egalité" D'Orleans voted for beheading Cousin Louis, too. And wasn't Philippe's kid King of France when the Duc was writing this? Or did he write post 1848? (In which case the Bonapartes were back.)

The mocking and insulting tone of the royal author makes us angry, even after a century has elapsed.

Tell us how you really feel, Duc de Broglie!

Fritz would be proud! As Voltaire said, this was one of his goals in life. (Voltaire being Voltaire, he had no problem with Fritz mocking the French, given he knew he was mocking Fritz both to his face and to posterity even more effectively. *g*)

Duc de Broglie: "You literally just withdrew your ambassador. How is that not a sign of dissatisfaction?"

Mildred: Well, sometimes people do it to save money, but yeah, I know what you mean.

Reminder to cahn that this was why Prussia didn't have a proper envoy in London but a "resident" who was Swiss and whom Fritz had never met for years and years.

Re: 1764-1772 Foreign policy: France: Concerning Poland

[cahn]

(Voltaire being Voltaire, he had no problem with Fritz mocking the French, given he knew he was mocking Fritz both to his face and to posterity even more effectively. *g*)

OMG. Pamela is just so over-the-top that it just makes me laugh every time I think about it!

Reminder to [personal profile] cahn that this was why Prussia didn't have a proper envoy in London but a "resident" who was Swiss and whom Fritz had never met for years and years.

Ah, hee! That's hilarious.

Diplomats

[mildred_of_midgard]

And wasn't Philippe's kid King of France when the Duc was writing this? Or did he write post 1848? (In which case the Bonapartes were back.)

The book was published in 1878, which means we're into the Third Republic already.

Reminder to [personal profile] cahn that this was why Prussia didn't have a proper envoy in London but a "resident" who was Swiss and whom Fritz had never met for years and years.

A primer on 18th century diplomatic posts:

Resident: A minister permanently posted abroad, who acts as a point of contact, gathers information, and sends reports back home, but is not authorized to negotiate anything.

Envoy extraordinaire: A diplomat authorized to negotiate one particular issue.

Envoy plenipotentiary: A diplomat authorized to negotiate any issue.

Ambassador: Like an envoy plenipotentiary, but fancier. Highest ranked and best paid. Has to be treated with a lot of ceremony by the hosting country; has a lot of representational duties with commensurate out-of-pocket expenses. Needs to be rich, basically.

It wasn't unusual for someone who was accredited at one rank not to let on right away that they had that rank; sometimes to be able to collect information without putting everyone on their guard; sometimes to save money. I assume the latter is why Hanbury-Williams tells Catherine that when she's empress, he hopes to be able to be sent back as ambassador (more money), but he will keep his letter of accreditation in his pocket (fewer expenses).

Abram Michell, the Swiss resident/legation-secretary who was left in London after Andrie left, would thus have been cheaper than sending Peter as an envoy. Because Fritz didn't have anything he needed negotiated at the moment (1747), he didn't feel the need to pay anyone the salary he would have to pay someone who was of a rank to negotiate, and he could save money. Because Michell was just a civil servant and not authorized to negotiate anything, it mattered less that he hadn't taken the Prussian oath of loyalty. And because Peter was not rich, Fritz didn't want to send him at a rank that would empower him to negotiate and cause him a lot of expenses. (Either he thinks Peter will be susceptible to bribes, or else he thinks Peter just won't be able to afford the lifestyle of an envoy.)