Any time there's a book, anecdote collection or no, that covers "world history," I assume the author has gone for breadth rather than depth, and I bring a lot of skepticism about the accuracy to the table.
Point granted.
this is Barz, we have to read him with a grain of salt. Here's the relevant passage, though.
With the caveat that rumors in Potsdam don't have to be identical to rumors in Copenhagen, I would point to Lehndorff as a contemporary witness who clearly has heard a "worst of" edition of the rumors (three lovers!), especially given he's working at the court of Juliana's sister, and yet he did not hear that Struensee wanted the throne for himself (as opposed to reigning through CM as regent, though really, CM comes across as the main villain in the Lehndorff passages).
Btw, the fact that Moltke had to marry his 14-yo off in haste while the marriage negotiations with Juliana Maria were in progress makes me wonder if Moltke was afraid of an elopement. Impetuous, often intoxicated Frederik might decide that Moltke is being too modest and he, Frederik, will do him a favor and surprise him? And I could see the 14-yo girl easily being dazzled by the crown, no matter how many talks her serious-business no-fun father had with her about how this is a Really Really Bad Idea, No Really.
Oh, absolutely, especially since I doubt the 14 years old girl has seen a lot of Frederik in his cups. Or heard about the prostitutes and the BDSM. If Frederik has the reputation of being friendly and approachable and the people's monarch and what not, and she knows he's the source of her family's fortune, and there's the glamor of the crown, yes, I wouldn't trust a teenager not to go for it or think it's awfully romantic. (Comforting the King over the lost Queen!)
I do wonder if she was even told, or if i it was like, "So! I found you a great husband! The wedding is next month."
Depends on Mrs. Moltke, I guess. At least I assume Moltke would have to explain to her the instant marriage, NOW.
Because it's not digitized yet, I can only glance through the academic Struensee book, but what I've found so far is a statement that Struensee was accused of planning to pull a Cromwell. Does that sound more like "kill the king and rule as regent" or "kill the king and rule in your own name" to you? (Serious question.
Instinctively, I'd say it sounds like "Kill the King, overthrow the monarchy and found a Commonwealth with self as "Protector", i.e. NOT King but de facto ruler under another name", but maybe I'm too literal. :) Otoh, with all those reforms, suspecting Struensee of having it in for not just the nobility but the monarchy isn't totally far stretched.
On the other hand: it's always worth considering that when the French Revolution started, the goal WASN'T to found a republic - at least not the goal of 95 % of the revolutionaries. And I don't just mean Lafayette - even Robespierre wasn't a Republican yet. They were going for benevolent despotism with a proper constitution, an improved version of English model - not the Cromwellian one, the Glorious Revolution one. One of the reasons why the Flight to Varennes was so crucial wasn't just that this was in retrospect the last point at which Louis, Marie Antoinette et al could have lived, but that this was what made most of the revolutionaries change their minds in this regard and decide no, they have to abolish the monarchy altogether, working with the King, no matter how constituionally fenced in, is no longer possible. What I'm trying to get at: the idea of someone intending overthrowing the monarchy as such and creating a new form of state isn't as obvious as we later borns might think.
Lastly, for a contemporary Cromwell reference, how's this exchange when Ulrike is contemplating a coup against her own parliament and writing to brother AW:
U: (slightly paraphrased) Don't talk to me of parliament, some ingrates I financed in the past have just turned their back on me. If I send you the crown jewels as well as my own personal jewelry, could you sell it for me? I'm thinking I need money to raise an army. This is clearly a Charles I and Cromwell situation. I'm not losing my head to the bloody peasants.
(She did use those historical examples.)
AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had."
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Point granted.
this is Barz, we have to read him with a grain of salt. Here's the relevant passage, though.
With the caveat that rumors in Potsdam don't have to be identical to rumors in Copenhagen, I would point to Lehndorff as a contemporary witness who clearly has heard a "worst of" edition of the rumors (three lovers!), especially given he's working at the court of Juliana's sister, and yet he did not hear that Struensee wanted the throne for himself (as opposed to reigning through CM as regent, though really, CM comes across as the main villain in the Lehndorff passages).
Btw, the fact that Moltke had to marry his 14-yo off in haste while the marriage negotiations with Juliana Maria were in progress makes me wonder if Moltke was afraid of an elopement. Impetuous, often intoxicated Frederik might decide that Moltke is being too modest and he, Frederik, will do him a favor and surprise him? And I could see the 14-yo girl easily being dazzled by the crown, no matter how many talks her serious-business no-fun father had with her about how this is a Really Really Bad Idea, No Really.
Oh, absolutely, especially since I doubt the 14 years old girl has seen a lot of Frederik in his cups. Or heard about the prostitutes and the BDSM. If Frederik has the reputation of being friendly and approachable and the people's monarch and what not, and she knows he's the source of her family's fortune, and there's the glamor of the crown, yes, I wouldn't trust a teenager not to go for it or think it's awfully romantic. (Comforting the King over the lost Queen!)
I do wonder if she was even told, or if i it was like, "So! I found you a great husband! The wedding is next month."
Depends on Mrs. Moltke, I guess. At least I assume Moltke would have to explain to her the instant marriage, NOW.
Because it's not digitized yet, I can only glance through the academic Struensee book, but what I've found so far is a statement that Struensee was accused of planning to pull a Cromwell. Does that sound more like "kill the king and rule as regent" or "kill the king and rule in your own name" to you? (Serious question.
Instinctively, I'd say it sounds like "Kill the King, overthrow the monarchy and found a Commonwealth with self as "Protector", i.e. NOT King but de facto ruler under another name", but maybe I'm too literal. :) Otoh, with all those reforms, suspecting Struensee of having it in for not just the nobility but the monarchy isn't totally far stretched.
On the other hand: it's always worth considering that when the French Revolution started, the goal WASN'T to found a republic - at least not the goal of 95 % of the revolutionaries. And I don't just mean Lafayette - even Robespierre wasn't a Republican yet. They were going for benevolent despotism with a proper constitution, an improved version of English model - not the Cromwellian one, the Glorious Revolution one. One of the reasons why the Flight to Varennes was so crucial wasn't just that this was in retrospect the last point at which Louis, Marie Antoinette et al could have lived, but that this was what made most of the revolutionaries change their minds in this regard and decide no, they have to abolish the monarchy altogether, working with the King, no matter how constituionally fenced in, is no longer possible. What I'm trying to get at: the idea of someone intending overthrowing the monarchy as such and creating a new form of state isn't as obvious as we later borns might think.
Lastly, for a contemporary Cromwell reference, how's this exchange when Ulrike is contemplating a coup against her own parliament and writing to brother AW:
U: (slightly paraphrased) Don't talk to me of parliament, some ingrates I financed in the past have just turned their back on me. If I send you the crown jewels as well as my own personal jewelry, could you sell it for me? I'm thinking I need money to raise an army. This is clearly a Charles I and Cromwell situation. I'm not losing my head to the bloody peasants.
(She did use those historical examples.)
AW: Charles I and Cromwell, seriously? "Dearest sister, I should hope that your cause is more just than that of Charles, and that you are far from the tyrannical frame of mind of Cromwell, who under the name of protector became one of the worst tyrants England ever had."