cahn: (Default)
cahn ([personal profile] cahn) wrote2021-11-06 07:29 am
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18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 32

:) Still talking about Charles XII of Sweden / the Great Northern War and the Stuarts and the Jacobites, among other things!
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Wilhelmine travel diary + Italy letters

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2021-11-24 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
I was reading Blanning, and I ran into this observation on European visitors in Italy on their Grand Tours:

They came equipped with a yardstick against which contemporary conditions were almost certain to be found wanting, namely a classical education. Most famously, the contrast between the classical past and the Christian present inspired one of the greatest historiographical and literary creations of the eighteenth century, as Edward Gibbon recorded in his Memoirs: 'It was at Rome, on the 15th of October 1764, as I sat musing amid the ruins of the capitol, while the bare-footed friars were singing vespers in the temple of Jupiter [the Church of Santa Maria in Aracoeli], that the idea of writing the decline and fall of the city first started to my mind.'

I knew that it was a trope to go to Italy and complain, (I think [personal profile] selenak said women were more likely to accept current-day Italy on its own terms?), but this instance particularly struck me, since I've read (and liked) The Decline and Fall, and I didn't konw that this was how he got his inspiration.
selenak: (Wilhelmine)

Re: Wilhelmine travel diary + Italy letters

[personal profile] selenak 2021-11-24 08:35 am (UTC)(link)
I think [personal profile] selenak said women were more likely to accept current-day Italy on its own terms?

Yes, after reading the Anna Amalia biography, because that's something she, Wilhelmine and Fanny Mendelssohn - travellling at very different points from each other - have in common. Whereas, Goethe excepted (who loved it there), you're far more prone in male visitors to get to that passage where they complain about how low Italy has sunk since the Roman days. Mind you, after having read what Gian Gastone's Dad did to Florence during his 53 years bigotted reign, I would empathize for Florentine visitors during that era, but not looking back to Rome, looking back to the Renaissance!