(Source: Fritz' Histoire de Mon Temps and Fritz' Seven Years War History and Droysen.)
*spittake*
*checks publication date*
1983
Lol, reading further, I see you beat me to it. Well, then, this is (one reason) why you're my book-reading canary before I spend money!
(I should add here that the reason why none of the Danes at the Prussian court was into the Tabacgie wasn't the one we'd assume, it was pure snobbery - FW had born commoners like Gundling there was well as noble men!)
*facepalm* You guys! Okay, good to know, in case he shows up in fic.
However, post Katte execution and replacement of Lovenorn by Johnn, FW kept feeling insulted, in this case by Lohnn only being a Legationssekretär, of lower rank than Lovenorn had been, and thus replaced his own envoy in Denmark, Biedersee, as well, calling him back at the end of May 1731 and replacing him with a Legationssekretär, Iwatzhoff
Ahh, this is cool, thanks!
Maybe FW suspected who'd been the source of that Katte pamphlet?
Maybe!
Lastly (about this era, not the book), naturally Denmark and Prussia had a dispute about FW's most favourite thing, recruiting tall men.
More than once, since my Google searches show Lovenorn and von Johnn writing letters of protest to FW in October 1730 and December 1730 respectively! With actual record numbers from the archives. (Unlike the Katte report. Why doesn't Hartmann realize we need archive numbers and preferably a transcription of the entire report? Fishing disputes. I ask you!)
Lastly, guess what: Memme Siefkin isn't on Danish territory anymore. He escaped to Holland and wants to stay there. So: you're not getting any tall guys from us!"
FW: Grrr. Argh. You're so lucky I'm not into wars of agression!
LOLOL. Sometimes I think the reason FW wasn't into wars of aggression was that he'd then end up in a war with EVERYONE, even beyond the Seven Years' War, over his recruiting methods.
Anyway, the book seems to contain useful info, at the cost of "Written in what year?" Thanks for checking this out for us!
Re: Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Frit
The last experience of that type I had when reading how Georg Schnath didn't want his 1927 readers to be shocked by Sophie's occasional baroque coarseness. :)
*facepalm* You guys! Okay, good to know, in case he shows up in fic.
It's worth in general to keep in mind that if letter writing noble Europe is shocked at FW, the shock only partially hails from the brutality and for a possibly far greater part is due to him violating all the social norms, doing away with princely magnificence, wanting to live like a burgher, etc. , i.e. all the parts about FW posterity thought were good, not bad.
(Mind you, of course the whole "we're all equals here at the Tobacco Parliament, don't call me your majesty, call me Colonel" is severely undercut by how he treated his "funny councillors" as an effort in social equality. See also: his son's whole "we're all equals here in the republic of letters, I'm just one of you, now do exactly as I say!" to the Academy members.
Louis XIV: Never had that problem. No one was ever my equal and I made that very clear to everyone, and everything worked out fine that way.
French Revolution's seeds: are growing.
Edited 2021-11-28 07:15 (UTC)
Re: Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Frit
The last experience of that type I had when reading how Georg Schnath didn't want his 1927 readers to be shocked by Sophie's occasional baroque coarseness. :)
Oh, I had an author saying the same thing in 1996, but he was Russian. ;)
It's worth in general to keep in mind that if letter writing noble Europe is shocked at FW, the shock only partially hails from the brutality and for a possibly far greater part is due to him violating all the social norms, doing away with princely magnificence, wanting to live like a burgher, etc. , i.e. all the parts about FW posterity thought were good, not bad.
No wonder Rottembourg wanted to have him declared insane! :P
More seriously, as a bio of Victor Amadeus II, which I read last week and which I am planning to summarize as soon as I can reread and take notes, points out that while there was the Versailles model of how to be a prince, there was also a competing model of "austere court, military ethos, the prince is the first servant of the state" alive and well at the turn of the 18th century: in Sweden, Russia, and Savoy at least, and FW's Prussia was following a well-trodden path by 1713.
See also: his son's whole "we're all equals here in the republic of letters, I'm just one of you, now do exactly as I say!" to the Academy members.
Augustus, Cosimo and Lorenzo de' Medici, early Napoleon: *nod*
Louis XIV: Never had that problem. No one was ever my equal and I made that very clear to everyone, and everything worked out fine that way.
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Re: Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Frit
*spittake*
*checks publication date*
1983
Lol, reading further, I see you beat me to it. Well, then, this is (one reason) why you're my book-reading canary before I spend money!
(I should add here that the reason why none of the Danes at the Prussian court was into the Tabacgie wasn't the one we'd assume, it was pure snobbery - FW had born commoners like Gundling there was well as noble men!)
*facepalm* You guys! Okay, good to know, in case he shows up in fic.
However, post Katte execution and replacement of Lovenorn by Johnn, FW kept feeling insulted, in this case by Lohnn only being a Legationssekretär, of lower rank than Lovenorn had been, and thus replaced his own envoy in Denmark, Biedersee, as well, calling him back at the end of May 1731 and replacing him with a Legationssekretär, Iwatzhoff
Ahh, this is cool, thanks!
Maybe FW suspected who'd been the source of that Katte pamphlet?
Maybe!
Lastly (about this era, not the book), naturally Denmark and Prussia had a dispute about FW's most favourite thing, recruiting tall men.
More than once, since my Google searches show Lovenorn and von Johnn writing letters of protest to FW in October 1730 and December 1730 respectively! With actual record numbers from the archives. (Unlike the Katte report. Why doesn't Hartmann realize we need archive numbers and preferably a transcription of the entire report? Fishing disputes. I ask you!)
Lastly, guess what: Memme Siefkin isn't on Danish territory anymore. He escaped to Holland and wants to stay there. So: you're not getting any tall guys from us!"
FW: Grrr. Argh. You're so lucky I'm not into wars of agression!
LOLOL. Sometimes I think the reason FW wasn't into wars of aggression was that he'd then end up in a war with EVERYONE, even beyond the Seven Years' War, over his recruiting methods.
Anyway, the book seems to contain useful info, at the cost of "Written in what year?" Thanks for checking this out for us!
Re: Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Frit
*spittake*
*checks publication date*
1983
The last experience of that type I had when reading how Georg Schnath didn't want his 1927 readers to be shocked by Sophie's occasional baroque coarseness. :)
*facepalm* You guys! Okay, good to know, in case he shows up in fic.
It's worth in general to keep in mind that if letter writing noble Europe is shocked at FW, the shock only partially hails from the brutality and for a possibly far greater part is due to him violating all the social norms, doing away with princely magnificence, wanting to live like a burgher, etc. , i.e. all the parts about FW posterity thought were good, not bad.
(Mind you, of course the whole "we're all equals here at the Tobacco Parliament, don't call me your majesty, call me Colonel" is severely undercut by how he treated his "funny councillors" as an effort in social equality. See also: his son's whole "we're all equals here in the republic of letters, I'm just one of you, now do exactly as I say!" to the Academy members.
Louis XIV: Never had that problem. No one was ever my equal and I made that very clear to everyone, and everything worked out fine that way.
French Revolution's seeds: are growing.
Re: Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Frit
Oh, I had an author saying the same thing in 1996, but he was Russian. ;)
It's worth in general to keep in mind that if letter writing noble Europe is shocked at FW, the shock only partially hails from the brutality and for a possibly far greater part is due to him violating all the social norms, doing away with princely magnificence, wanting to live like a burgher, etc. , i.e. all the parts about FW posterity thought were good, not bad.
No wonder Rottembourg wanted to have him declared insane! :P
More seriously, as a bio of Victor Amadeus II, which I read last week and which I am planning to summarize as soon as I can reread and take notes, points out that while there was the Versailles model of how to be a prince, there was also a competing model of "austere court, military ethos, the prince is the first servant of the state" alive and well at the turn of the 18th century: in Sweden, Russia, and Savoy at least, and FW's Prussia was following a well-trodden path by 1713.
See also: his son's whole "we're all equals here in the republic of letters, I'm just one of you, now do exactly as I say!" to the Academy members.
Augustus, Cosimo and Lorenzo de' Medici, early Napoleon: *nod*
Louis XIV: Never had that problem. No one was ever my equal and I made that very clear to everyone, and everything worked out fine that way.
French Revolution's seeds: are growing.
Later Napoleon: Dammit.