Frederick the Great and Other 18th-C Characters, Discussion Post 31

[cahn]

And in this post:

-luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!

-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!

-mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War

(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)

-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D

Comments

Re: The Great Northern War: Charles in Saxony

[selenak]

Mildred: That sounds as implausible as it is hilarious. Even leaving religious commitment aside, I would hope the Holy Roman Emperor would have more pride than that! Primary sources or it didn't happen.

One of Mildred's later, more reliable books: "According to Voltaire, Joseph said..."

Mildred: OH. That explains why it's hilarious and snarky and implausible! That is such a vintage Voltaire dig against a Catholic monarch on behalf of Voltaire's pre-Fritz problematic fave. Mystery solved.

Hehe. Mystery solved indeed. Say, is Voltaire also the source for the Saxons loving Charles? Because while I can see them comparing him positively with August in the religious department (given August had became a Catholic to get the Polish crown and Saxony still was 90% Protestant), but even the opening sequence of the entertaining 80s tv series aside, the whole "Swedes were perfect gentlemen in Saxony, everyone loved Charles and hated August" sounds distinctly not how the whole thing is presented in any German take I've come across in passing. (Including German wiki, whose take on this part of the Great Northern war is "Das Land wurde rigoros ausgebeutet", i.e. "the land got ruthlessly exploited".

(Not that August didn't exploit Saxony too, but as its liege lord, that was par the course.

Re: The Great Northern War: Charles in Saxony

[mildred_of_midgard]

Say, is Voltaire also the source for the Saxons loving Charles?

I don't know the source, but I was actually going to comment today that "the Saxons loved Charles" is another one of those things that my pro-Charles sources say but that is strikingly like *other* Fritzian claims I've encountered, so it's another thing I'm reporting without necessarily believing.