Frederick the Great and Other 18th-C Characters, Discussion Post 31

[cahn]

And in this post:

-luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!

-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!

-mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War

(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)

-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D

Comments

Re: The Backstory for the '45

[mildred_of_midgard]

Sincere apologies for just dropping in and randomly asking questions, especially as the thread more generally has moved away from this specific moment in history! (And of course feel free to ignore this since it's not at all a military question!)

No, not to worry! That's how we operate here! Everybody asks questions about everything, nothing is off topic, and we have half a dozen simultaneous discussions going at any given time.

And we're definitely not military focused, far from it. I'm the only one here with a semi-serious interest in military history, and most of our discussions are focused on interpersonal relationships. So exactly your type of question!

Mary and Anne were James II's daughters from his first marriage so they would have been half-siblings, though separated by 20 years or more in age. Did they ever actually meet? Or have any kind of relationship prior to the various Jacobite uprisings?

I will have to leave detailed 17th century history to selenak, but what I can say is that James III's birth was what triggered the Glorious Revolution, which means he was only a few months old when William and Mary booted his father off the throne and forced both him and his father into Continental exile.

The first Jacobite rebellion was in 1689, when future James III was about 1 year old, so there wasn't really a "prior to the Jacobite uprisings" in which he could have had a relationship with his siblings. From the moment he was kicked out, James II never stopped trying to get the throne back via Louis XIV's help, and James III picked up where his father left off.

Furthermore, Mary died when the future James III was only six. That leaves Anne. They were on opposite sides of the War of the Spanish Succession from the time he was 13 up until her death. (James II died right as it started, Louis XIV publicly recognized his son as King of England, and that was just more fuel on the the fire for the war that was breaking out.) During that war, he staged the 1708 rebellion, and one of the terms of the peace that ended the war was France having to kick James III out of France, stop calling him James III, and recognize Anne instead.

Selena can tell me if they somehow met or struck up a correspondence that I don't know about, but due to the political circumstances, I can't imagine a relationship other than "each accusing the other of treason and trying to have him/her locked up and possibly executed."

What Selena will probably have is way more detail on what the siblings said about each other to third parties.

Good question, thank you for asking! We love when people ask questions; that's how we've had a 2-year discussion group! :D