selenak: (Default)
selenak ([personal profile] selenak) wrote in [personal profile] cahn 2021-10-24 06:35 am (UTC)

Re: William III, FW, and Sophia

No, I wasn't familiar with the letter before. I would agree with your general translation except for one (important) point, so here's my own, leaving out the bit about the book Stepney sent her in the beginning:

If I was thirty years younger, I would make much of my perdigree and my religious confession in order to expect people in England to consider myself. But since it is not very likely that I shall survive two much younger people, though they're both less healthy, I'm afraid that after my death, one will regard my sons as foreigners. (Yes, that's "sons" plural. More than one was still alive after all.) Besides, the oldest is much more used to act as a sovereign than the poor Prince of Wales, who is still too young to have patterned himself on the example of the King of France and who it seems would be so happy to achieve again that which his royal father has lost in such an inconsiderate way, that one could do whatever one wanted with him. (The implication for me here isn't so much that G1 is used to act like Louis XIV but that G1 is now used to act as a sovereign, full stop, - i.e. rule on his own - whereas young James - who is after all living at Louis' court together with his Dad in exile - is still too young to have patterned himself on Louis, and also is ready to make compromises in order to get the throne back. )But in England, prejudice reigns, and in order to stick to what you're telling me about this, and without any further discussion of this point in a letter, I shall tell you that my daughter has dragged me here where she has been spending three weeks taking the waters, and that we want to leave on Monday in order to travel to the Netherlands via Brussels, where we shall have the honor to see the King. I am neither so philosophical nor so inconsiderate as to not like all this conversation about a crown, as you may believe, and of course I am pondering your well founded judgment in this affair. In my opinion, there are so many factions in England that one can never be sure of anything there. Which doesn't stop me from being very grateful to those who show affection towards me and mine, especially to you, grateful enough to last a life time. And I find it a pleasing to be obliged to such an deserving person as yourself, whom one likes to owe gratitude towards. Sophie, Electress.

Now, what she doesn't say is that future G1 doesn't want to be King. There's nothing in the letter about his eagerness or lack of same. Just that he (or any other son of hers) will be perceived as a foreigner by the Brits, and that he's used to rule as a sovereign by now, whereas young James is a young (British) pub who can still be molded. While Sophie never visited England herself, she knew her share of British exiles from girlhood onwards, not to mention that brothers Carl Ludwig and Rupert lived in the country for years and did have stories to tell, so I would say the observation that any son of hers will be seen as a foreigner was entirely on point and correct. "Used to act like a sovereign by now" is another matter; I haven't yet read a biography of his, so you would know better, but I did have the impression that as Elector, he did like to do his own stuff as opposed to leaving governing entirely to ministers.

Something else she doesn't say is that she'll tell W3 the Hannovers weren't interested. And it's worth pointing out that she and Sophie Charlotte weren't alone; they had kid FW with them. Now, here's a funny thing: counting your quote from Hatton, I have now seen three entirely different takes on this Sophie/Sophie/W3 summit, to wit:

Morgenstern: So what happened was that W3 thought little FW was awesome, wanted to adopt him, but his mean Mom and Grandma, being all about the Hannover interests, evidently were against it. FW never stopped being disgruntled about this and convinced he'd have made a way better King of England than the Georges, readers, I swear!

Goldstone: So we don't know what was said but it's clear from the timing that this was when Sophie pushed for the Hannover succession, therefore finally achieving that late win for Mary Queen of Scots!

Hatton: This was when Sophie said they weren't interested and nearly lost her son the chance for the crown!"

It does occur to me that anything Sophie writes about young James - young, can be molded - certainly (without having prophetic powers) would apply to 12 years old FW as well, and of course as opposed to young James he's impeccably Protestant (the observation about prejudice ruling in England persumably means religious prejudice, i.e. the NO CATHOLICS! issue) and Sophie's direct descendant. So I wouldn't consider it impossible that either of the Sophias or both raised the possibility of FW as an alterante candidate with W3. But maybe, as opposed to what Morgenstern thinks (who wasn't there and only had it by word of mouth anyway, either from FW or his tobacco cronies), W3 wasn't smitten by kid!FW and the idea of adopting him and making him King of England.

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