I knew you were going to come here with some document that would make me go OH RIGHT.
OH RIGHT, the Finnish sex machine and the royal threesome! We should try to get our hands on that someday.
G2 telling Caroline all about his new mistress because she's his bff has to count!
Apparently future Peter III did this with his bff, Catherine, although because they lived together, I doubt it was ever put into writing.
Wagner fan that he was, tried to write his personal letters the way people in Wagner's opera's speak, which makes most of said letters, well, extraordinary, but never more so than when he's corresponding with Wagner himself (who really did not speak or talk like that otherwise and found it incredibly exhausting
Lol, that's hilarious! I'm reminded of a physics professor I had, who said that when he first went to Germany, most of his exposure to German had come from Wagner, and that meant he did things like compliment a police officer on his "noble steed."
Police officer: ...You learned German from Wagner, didn't you? Prof: Does it show?
Apparently future Peter III did this with his bff, Catherine, although because they lived together, I doubt it was ever put into writing.
Maybe we should add he did this at a point when Catherine hadn't yet had any lovers of her own.
LOL on your Professor. The thing is, nobody ever talked the way characters in Wagner's operas do. He fashioned their language after some elements of medieval German poetry plus some elements of what 19th century linguists like Jacob Grimm had deduced about pre medieval German, mixed and mingled and was creative about it according to his needs. (For example, the reason why he uses the "Stabreim", the alliterative rhyming, so often, isn't that it was dominant in what survives of old and medieval German but that it was easiest to sing, which makes sense for a composer!
Lol, yeah, my prof said he used "Ross" instead of "Pferd," and explained that that was the equivalent of "steed" instead of "horse." Wiktionary tells me
Ross is a normal word for “horse”, alongside Pferd, in many parts of southern Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. In northern and central Germany, Ross is not part of the colloquial vocabulary and is perceived as poetic, archaic, or restricted to noble riding horses.
For example, the reason why he uses the "Stabreim", the alliterative rhyming, so often, isn't that it was dominant in what survives of old and medieval German but that it was easiest to sing, which makes sense for a composer!
On the one hand, no, nobody believes ancient Germanic speakers *spoke* in alliteration, in prose. If you went back in time a thousand years and started chatting in Stabreim, people would be just as weirded out as Ludwig's contemporaries. ;) But on the other hand, since alliteration was the dominant poetic device in all the Germanic languages, including Old High German, before rhyme took over, I'd be surprised if the ancient poetic tradition didn't influence Wagner's choice at all. The Nibelungenlied, because it's in Middle High German, is in rhyming verse, but the Norse Eddas are alliterative.
Maybe we should add he did this at a point when Catherine hadn't yet had any lovers of her own.
Yes. Yes, he did. The thing is, Elizaveta was deliberately trying to keep her nephew isolated from power, surrounded by strict/abusive guardians, and also isolated with his wife so that they'd be forced to spend time together and finally beget that heir. (Like Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI, Catherine and Peter's marriage was unconsummated for several years. Like Louis, there were stories about Peter needing an operation on his penis, for the same condition.) So Peter had a limited set of people, especially in his own class, that he *could* talk to. And Catherine was doing her best to make herself liked, because her position was very insecure and she knew her husband would have absolute power someday. So she was super nice, Peter decided she was his BFF, Peter wasn't particularly interested in sleeping with his BFF, and he hit on her ladies in waiting and told his BFF all about it.
Also, per the authors I've been reading, Catherine was trying to keep her lover Saltykov a secret from Elizaveta long after Peter knew and thought it was hilarious.
(You'll think her lovers are a lot less hilarious in 1762, Peter.)
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Re: Extraordinary documents by monarchs, you say?
OH RIGHT, the Finnish sex machine and the royal threesome! We should try to get our hands on that someday.
G2 telling Caroline all about his new mistress because she's his bff has to count!
Apparently future Peter III did this with his bff, Catherine, although because they lived together, I doubt it was ever put into writing.
Wagner fan that he was, tried to write his personal letters the way people in Wagner's opera's speak, which makes most of said letters, well, extraordinary, but never more so than when he's corresponding with Wagner himself (who really did not speak or talk like that otherwise and found it incredibly exhausting
Lol, that's hilarious! I'm reminded of a physics professor I had, who said that when he first went to Germany, most of his exposure to German had come from Wagner, and that meant he did things like compliment a police officer on his "noble steed."
Police officer: ...You learned German from Wagner, didn't you?
Prof: Does it show?
Re: Extraordinary documents by monarchs, you say?
Uhhhhh. Wow.
Police officer: ...You learned German from Wagner, didn't you?
Prof: Does it show?
Hee!
Re: Extraordinary documents by monarchs, you say?
Maybe we should add he did this at a point when Catherine hadn't yet had any lovers of her own.
LOL on your Professor. The thing is, nobody ever talked the way characters in Wagner's operas do. He fashioned their language after some elements of medieval German poetry plus some elements of what 19th century linguists like Jacob Grimm had deduced about pre medieval German, mixed and mingled and was creative about it according to his needs. (For example, the reason why he uses the "Stabreim", the alliterative rhyming, so often, isn't that it was dominant in what survives of old and medieval German but that it was easiest to sing, which makes sense for a composer!
Re: Extraordinary documents by monarchs, you say?
Ross is a normal word for “horse”, alongside Pferd, in many parts of southern Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. In northern and central Germany, Ross is not part of the colloquial vocabulary and is perceived as poetic, archaic, or restricted to noble riding horses.
For example, the reason why he uses the "Stabreim", the alliterative rhyming, so often, isn't that it was dominant in what survives of old and medieval German but that it was easiest to sing, which makes sense for a composer!
On the one hand, no, nobody believes ancient Germanic speakers *spoke* in alliteration, in prose. If you went back in time a thousand years and started chatting in Stabreim, people would be just as weirded out as Ludwig's contemporaries. ;) But on the other hand, since alliteration was the dominant poetic device in all the Germanic languages, including Old High German, before rhyme took over, I'd be surprised if the ancient poetic tradition didn't influence Wagner's choice at all. The Nibelungenlied, because it's in Middle High German, is in rhyming verse, but the Norse Eddas are alliterative.
Maybe we should add he did this at a point when Catherine hadn't yet had any lovers of her own.
Yes. Yes, he did. The thing is, Elizaveta was deliberately trying to keep her nephew isolated from power, surrounded by strict/abusive guardians, and also isolated with his wife so that they'd be forced to spend time together and finally beget that heir. (Like Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI, Catherine and Peter's marriage was unconsummated for several years. Like Louis, there were
stories about Peter needing an operation on his penis, for the same condition.) So Peter had a limited set of people, especially in his own class, that he *could* talk to. And Catherine was doing her best to make herself liked, because her position was very insecure and she knew her husband would have absolute power someday. So she was super nice, Peter decided she was his BFF, Peter wasn't particularly interested in sleeping with his BFF, and he hit on her ladies in waiting and told his BFF all about it.
Also, per the authors I've been reading, Catherine was trying to keep her lover Saltykov a secret from Elizaveta long after Peter knew and thought it was hilarious.
(You'll think her lovers are a lot less hilarious in 1762, Peter.)