Thanks to Czernin's annotated bibliography, I discovered that Montesquieu traveled through Germany in 1728-1729 and kept a diary that is muuuuch easier to access than Wilhelmine's Italian counterpart! I obtained a recent German translation (lol, the day has come that my German is better than my French) via Kindle. Due to the slowness of my German and the busy-ness of my week, I've only read the couple of pages dealing with FW so far. No new information, but a couple of gems.
First of all, Montesquieu gives no signs that I can see (conceding my German and time limitations) that he met any of the Prussian royals, and this leads me to believe he's purely reporting hearsay. (He did get to meet G2, it seems.) He's also reporting hearsay from a French perspective, so he has no time for FW and is very concerned that the Catholic religion is disappearing in Prussia and Hanover (where he also visited and where there might be some stuff of interest for Selena to find, along with many other principalities).
So the entire Prussia section is just an anti-FW diatribe with a dash of anti-Prussia. FW's terrible, he's a miser, he beats his officers and soldiers, and he starves his family. Fritz would give up his title as crown prince in exchange for a 100 pound pension. (I mean, in 1729, that's borderline accurate.) Prussian fathers are sending their sons to other countries, merchants don't want to do business in Prussia because they'll get impressed into the army, the army wants to desert, and in general the population is fleeing the country. One-sided, but you start out almost with him, watch it get more and more exaggerated...and then you hit the part where Montesquieu concludes that, as a result, FW's power is going to gradually collapse on its own. You wish, Montesquieu. No credit to FW for making his country financially solvent or putting together an army that might someday kick French butt. Oh, and the Old Dessauer gets a diss for being a miser and just like FW too.
Montesquieu does mention the autumn 1729 incident between Prussia and Hanover where they almost went to war, though no duel that I can see. (Sadly, the dissertation I'm reading by one of the foremost English language scholars of diplomacy of the period, Jeremy Black, covers the incident in excruciating detail and does not once mention an almost duel!)
But the best quote of all, amidst several passages ragging on FW for his kidnapping of tall soldiers:
He loves his soldiers, beats them liberally, and then kisses them afterward.
That alone was worth the cost of the Kindle book.
Either Selena or I will someday have to read the whole thing and report back. There's an elaborate description of the Herrenhausen water works, which I presume he did see. (Perhaps G2 should have given some tips to Fritz? :P)
Ha, I just flipped to the imperial court in Vienna section, and I see he's describing the people he's gotten to know, and he starts with, "Eugene, who is pretty well known," and then moves onto the next person. Needs no introduction!
A fair amount of Duke of Berwick, James II's illegitimate son who distinguished himself in the War of the Spanish Succession, with whom Montesquieu is friends. Some of their letters are included.
That's all I have time for now, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't share FW kissing and making up with his soldiers.
Wait, did I describe how Berwick died? I meant to in one of my many Spanish Succession posts, but I don't think I did. He died at Philippsburg (the War of the Polish Succession siege in 1734, where Fritz met Eugene, and Voltaire was hanging around on the other side), and this is how he died.
French artillery: *is shelling Philippsburg* French guards: *are keeping people from straying into the area being shelled* Berwick: Let me pass! French guards: No one can pass! Berwick: Do you know who I am? French guards: But sir, the whole area- Berwick: I am the son of a king and a war hero and a general and marshal of France! I outrank you and I order you to let me pass! French guards: But, sir, if you'll let us explain- Berwick: DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? French guards: FINE. On your own head be it. Literally. Berwick: *rides past the line of guards* Berwick's head, 30 seconds later: *is ripped off by a cannonball, presumably a French one* French guards: We tried to tell him.
I must balance that with a more favorable anecdote: whenever Philip V was going ballistic because the Catalonians were supporting the Austrian cause (when, you know, they had been under Allied occupation during the war) and trying to treat entire besieged cities as nothing less than attainted traitors, Berwick, who was the general in charge of besieging the cities and bringing Catalonia back under Spanish control, kept going, "Look! Philip! Please understand that I'm on your side here when I say that these are your SUBJECTS and you can't treat them the same way you treat your ENEMIES. Maybe if you would be NICE to them, they might not REVOLT, because they have some LEGITIMATE grievances...you're not listening, are you. *sigh*"
And he very much tried to get out of invading Spain a few years later during the War of the Quadruple Alliance in 1719 and was very sad at having to make war on Philip.
So that is Berwick in the latter part of his life.
Self. Oh God. A Churchill. Sister to Marlborough (when he was still in his boytoy to Barbara Villiers phase), no less. I mean, I'm sure Horowski mentioned this, as these kind of cross connections are his favourites, but I had forgotten. For a combination of the Stuart with the Churchill gene pool, he sounds, except for his death, amazingly sensible, but maybe in the end those genes got him. :)
I'm sure Horowski mentioned this, as these kind of cross connections are his favourites, but I had forgotten.
He did! At least once, and maybe more than once, but I've at least run into it more than once in my Spanish Succession reading.
For a combination of the Stuart with the Churchill gene pool, he sounds, except for his death, amazingly sensible, but maybe in the end those genes got him. :)
Hahaha, that's hilarious. Yes, new headcanon, that's exactly what happened.
Now that’s a find! Upon reading your comment, I checked out the free sample which is the preface from the German translator and editor. Who mentions who Montesquieu’s informant on all things Prussia & FW was. (Including, I take it, that priceless quote on FW & his tall soldiers.) It was… drumroll… the PM of Braunschweig-Wolffenbüttel, von Stain. Meaning: the very guy who was getting the Disney reports on FW from Stratemann, and who presumably was already working on the various Brunswick/Hohenzollern marriage alliances which would come into existence very soon (starting with Charlotte/next duke of Brunswick, then Fritz/EC and AW/Louise). Now either Montesquieu is employing liberal dramatization of what he’s heard, or Stain had other informants than Stratemann, or….?
Since it’s a relatively recent publication, I also googled the reviews, and it seems Montesquieu spotted future federalism in the HRE structure and liked it*, but also thought Germans in general were somewhat thick and not capable of intellectual thought and not even that well suited as servants.
*It’s to this day one of the largest differences between Germany and France, where the cultural and administrive Paris-centrism despite some modification still rules. Whereas we are a Federalist Republic which is anything but Berlin-centric, plus Berlin of course only became the general German capital between 1872 - 1945, and then again after unification in 1991.
Waterworks at Herrenhausen: well, they are something to behold! The gardens of Herrenhausen are largely Sophie’s work, btw. (And she died during a stroll through them when sudden rain made everyone run for cover.). I mean, check it out:
Take that, Sanssouci. The small ones are also nice, like this:
And, you know, Herrenhausen in general.
All together now:
G1 & G2: And that’s why we came back here, constant bitching by our British subjects not withstanding!
Ohh, nice collection! You always manage to get the blue sky when you visit for garden pictures. :D And wow, the last one with the big fountain in the background. That's impressive.
Glad you liked it! Credit to you for finding Czernin and pointing me in that direction.
I think you would like the whole work, it's only 200 pages, and it is at the Stabi. Before I bought it, I was naturally checking to see if you could get it in e-book form on the Stabi website, because it's so recent, but alas, no. But what I did find is the "people who research this book are also interested in" item description that read:
Grösse und Niedergang Roms: (1734) = Considérations sur les causes de la grandeur des Romains et de leur décadence; Montesquieu. Mit den Randbemerkungen Friedrichs des Grossen. Übers. und hrsg. von Lothar Schuckert. Fischer-Taschenbuch-Verl., Frankfurt am Main, 1980
In other words, the greatness and decline of Rome, by Montesquieu, with marginal notes by our Fritz! Since the publication date is 1980 and the text is translated, I'm guessing that means Schuckert translated not just the work but also the Fritzian notes into German. I would be super interested to know what Fritz thought of Montesquieu's take on the greatness and decline of Rome! As we've seen, Fritz has some iiiiinteresting Classics opinions! (Socrates was killed? All the sculptors' faults!)
Meaning: the very guy who was getting the Disney reports on FW from Stratemann,
What.
Now either Montesquieu is employing liberal dramatization of what he’s heard, or Stain had other informants than Stratemann, or….?
Well, he can't just be liberally dramatizing what he got from Stratemann via Stain, because his take on FW matches too many other people's. Especially FW starving his family--one of the sentences reads like it could have come straight out of Wilhelmine.
Montesquieu:
One dies of hunger there [at FW's table]. Only one dish is served at a time, which is passed around, and often almost all of it is consumed before the round is over.
Wilhelmine:
There were constantly twenty-four persons at table, eighteen of whom were kept fasting, because our ordinary consisted but of six dishes, and those very sparingly filled.
Whether or not this is an exaggerated anti-FW take like Rottembourg and his two-pronged fork accusation, it's unlikely Montesquieu independently made it up based on Mr. Disney.
Also, I didn't recognize Stain's name, and sure enough, the Stratemann volume's preface names Minister Hieronymus von Münchhausen as the intended recipient of his reports. Doesn't mean von Stain didn't see them, but it would help account for a discrepancy. I imagine one or both of Münchhausen and Stain had other sources.
directed the business of the negotiations conducted in Braunschweig in 1729 under the mediation of the Dukes of Braunschweig and Gotha, which resulted in a settlement of the disputes pending between Prussia and England at the time.
So I imagine he 1) didn't see FW as a saint, 2) had more than one source on him!
it seems Montesquieu spotted future federalism in the HRE structure and liked it
I saw that from the table of contents! I was really hoping to read a lot more, including this, last week, before I did my first post, but reading a lot of German last week did not happen.
also thought Germans in general were somewhat thick and not capable of intellectual thought and not even that well suited as servants.
...Did not catch that. Sigh.
Finally: lovely pictures, thank you for sharing! And lucky you and lucky Georges!
Okay, I ordered Montesquieus German travels from the Stabi, but his take on the decline and fall of the Roman empire with Fritzian commentary - which I also would love to know! - is only available in the reading room. Not the special one, thankfully, but the reading room nonetheless. See here. The French original, otoh, WITH the Fritz comments is available to be taken home. But I'm not up to Montesquieu AND Fritz in French, Mildred.
ETA: Just saw I could get it as a paperback for less than 7 Euro. Okay, ordered.
Especially FW starving his family
One of many things Wallat & Droyson accuse Wilhelmine of inventing out of thin air, I might add.
But I'm not up to Montesquieu AND Fritz in French, Mildred.
LOLOL, I didn't think so, which is why I pointed you toward a German copy! Although feel free to start studying French any time, I'm going to be busy with German for a while longer. ;)
ETA: Just saw I could get it as a paperback for less than 7 Euro. Okay, ordered.
Excellent! Such a dedicated salon we are.
One of many things Wallat & Droyson accuse Wilhelmine of inventing out of thin air, I might add.
And not just them, but didn't you in recent months find modern scholars arguing that FW provided abundant food, just middle-class German food instead of fancy French food? (I don't necessarily find envoys' experiences counterevidence; people often punish children by making them go hungry
I wish we had the source for Ziebura's report that AW said he was half-starved as a child (which, admittedly, was apparently a thing for royals and nobles in the 18th century, and often had more to do with servant neglect than parental intentions). I'd love to know where that comes from. I also wish the summary of his life, exaggerated arrest in Strasbourg included, had been published by someone!
Oh wow, you always take the coolest pictures! I really like the perspective of these and how so many of them have really cool things in both the foreground and the background (the last pictures as felis mentioned, also that second picture of the fountain). I think my favorite is the third to last, I just really like that perspective. (And, as felis also says, that blue sky!)
He loves his soldiers, beats them liberally, and then kisses them afterward.
OMG! :D
OMG indeed!
And lest we forget, the priceless Chesterfield quote from December 1730:
The King of Prussia in the oath he prepared for the Prince to swallow, among many other things, has made him swear that he will never believe in the doctrine of Predestination! A very unnecessary declaration in my mind for any body who has misfortune of being acquainted with him to make, since he himself is a living proof of free-will, for Providence can never be supposed to have pre-ordained such a creature!
Hee! I think it's awesome that this guy I'd never heard of before salon, now I'm like "yeah, I guess he needs no introduction..."
I think that's awesome too! Salon really is like being an 18th century noble/royal with your own private tutors, sans all the dysfunction. <3 salon.
I managed to read just a few more pages of Montesquieu, and I found the answer to one thing we'd been wondering about. Remember when Fritz says in 1731 that he should marry MT because FS is out of favor with the Emperor anyway? And we were wondering where on earth he was getting his intelligence, because FS remained solidly in favor as far as we could tell, and of course did end up marrying MT a few years later?
Montesquieu reports in 1728 that FS is out of favor because the Empress (MT's mother) gave birth to a daughter, and he couldn't resist showing his pleasure. So whatever intelligence Fritz is relying on is apparently a rumor that's been going around for a few years. (Wishful thinking?)
I would think it might be true, but the last daughter Wikipedia reports is from 1725, and it's unlikely FS would have been out of favor for *that* long without us knowing about it. A couple years I'd believe, but 6 is too many.
But if there was this rumor going around already in 1728, and then FS was in Lorraine from 1729-1731 (because he had just inherited) and thus not at court, I could see where Fritz got the idea he was out of favor in 1731.
Speaking of the 1725 baby, Wikipedia tells me this about Elisabeth Christine the mother of MT:
Three years after her marriage, court doctors prescribed large doses of liquor to make her more fertile, which gave her face a permanent blush. During her 1725 pregnancy, Charles unsuccessfully had her bedchamber decorated with erotic images of male beauty so as to make her expected baby male by stimulating her fantasy. After this, the court doctors prescribed a rich diet to increase her fertility, which made her so fat that she became unable to walk, experienced breathing problems, insomnia and dropsy and had to be lowered into her chairs by a specially constructed machine.
You were saying about not wanting to be a woman in the past, cahn? Ay ay ay. (Though the erotic images part sounds hilarious.)
Also, about the liquor stimulating fertility part, I wonder if they had noticed a correlation between pregnancies and alcohol and decided that alcohol increased your fertility rather than, say, affected your judgment.
Three years after her marriage, court doctors prescribed large doses of liquor to make her more fertile, which gave her face a permanent blush. During her 1725 pregnancy, Charles unsuccessfully had her bedchamber decorated with erotic images of male beauty so as to make her expected baby male by stimulating her fantasy. After this, the court doctors prescribed a rich diet to increase her fertility, which made her so fat that she became unable to walk, experienced breathing problems, insomnia and dropsy and had to be lowered into her chairs by a specially constructed machine.
OMG. I feel like... a certain kind of person might actually enjoy being prescribed lots of alcohol, porn, and rich food? Well, probably not the "up to the point of having medical problems" part. But hopefully she enjoyed at least some of that? *facepalm of not wanting to be a woman in the past*
Yeah, I had the same reaction: I hope she enjoyed the fun parts, because the constant being treated as a breeding animal, the message from society that she was failing in her duty and the one thing that made her worth anything as a human being, and the resulting medical issues don't sound fun at all. Gah.
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Montesquieu in Germany
First of all, Montesquieu gives no signs that I can see (conceding my German and time limitations) that he met any of the Prussian royals, and this leads me to believe he's purely reporting hearsay. (He did get to meet G2, it seems.) He's also reporting hearsay from a French perspective, so he has no time for FW and is very concerned that the Catholic religion is disappearing in Prussia and Hanover (where he also visited and where there might be some stuff of interest for Selena to find, along with many other principalities).
So the entire Prussia section is just an anti-FW diatribe with a dash of anti-Prussia. FW's terrible, he's a miser, he beats his officers and soldiers, and he starves his family. Fritz would give up his title as crown prince in exchange for a 100 pound pension. (I mean, in 1729, that's borderline accurate.) Prussian fathers are sending their sons to other countries, merchants don't want to do business in Prussia because they'll get impressed into the army, the army wants to desert, and in general the population is fleeing the country. One-sided, but you start out almost with him, watch it get more and more exaggerated...and then you hit the part where Montesquieu concludes that, as a result, FW's power is going to gradually collapse on its own. You wish, Montesquieu. No credit to FW for making his country financially solvent or putting together an army that might someday kick French butt. Oh, and the Old Dessauer gets a diss for being a miser and just like FW too.
Montesquieu does mention the autumn 1729 incident between Prussia and Hanover where they almost went to war, though no duel that I can see. (Sadly, the dissertation I'm reading by one of the foremost English language scholars of diplomacy of the period, Jeremy Black, covers the incident in excruciating detail and does not once mention an almost duel!)
But the best quote of all, amidst several passages ragging on FW for his kidnapping of tall soldiers:
He loves his soldiers, beats them liberally, and then kisses them afterward.
That alone was worth the cost of the Kindle book.
Either Selena or I will someday have to read the whole thing and report back. There's an elaborate description of the Herrenhausen water works, which I presume he did see. (Perhaps G2 should have given some tips to Fritz? :P)
Ha, I just flipped to the imperial court in Vienna section, and I see he's describing the people he's gotten to know, and he starts with, "Eugene, who is pretty well known," and then moves onto the next person. Needs no introduction!
A fair amount of Duke of Berwick, James II's illegitimate son who distinguished himself in the War of the Spanish Succession, with whom Montesquieu is friends. Some of their letters are included.
That's all I have time for now, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't share FW kissing and making up with his soldiers.
Duke of Berwick
French artillery: *is shelling Philippsburg*
French guards: *are keeping people from straying into the area being shelled*
Berwick: Let me pass!
French guards: No one can pass!
Berwick: Do you know who I am?
French guards: But sir, the whole area-
Berwick: I am the son of a king and a war hero and a general and marshal of France! I outrank you and I order you to let me pass!
French guards: But, sir, if you'll let us explain-
Berwick: DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?
French guards: FINE. On your own head be it. Literally.
Berwick: *rides past the line of guards*
Berwick's head, 30 seconds later: *is ripped off by a cannonball, presumably a French one*
French guards: We tried to tell him.
I must balance that with a more favorable anecdote: whenever Philip V was going ballistic because the Catalonians were supporting the Austrian cause (when, you know, they had been under Allied occupation during the war) and trying to treat entire besieged cities as nothing less than attainted traitors, Berwick, who was the general in charge of besieging the cities and bringing Catalonia back under Spanish control, kept going, "Look! Philip! Please understand that I'm on your side here when I say that these are your SUBJECTS and you can't treat them the same way you treat your ENEMIES. Maybe if you would be NICE to them, they might not REVOLT, because they have some LEGITIMATE grievances...you're not listening, are you. *sigh*"
And he very much tried to get out of invading Spain a few years later during the War of the Quadruple Alliance in 1719 and was very sad at having to make war on Philip.
So that is Berwick in the latter part of his life.
Re: Duke of Berwick
Self: *looks up who his mother was*
Self. Oh God. A Churchill. Sister to Marlborough (when he was still in his boytoy to Barbara Villiers phase), no less. I mean, I'm sure Horowski mentioned this, as these kind of cross connections are his favourites, but I had forgotten. For a combination of the Stuart with the Churchill gene pool, he sounds, except for his death, amazingly sensible, but maybe in the end those genes got him. :)
Re: Duke of Berwick
He did! At least once, and maybe more than once, but I've at least run into it more than once in my Spanish Succession reading.
For a combination of the Stuart with the Churchill gene pool, he sounds, except for his death, amazingly sensible, but maybe in the end those genes got him. :)
Hahaha, that's hilarious. Yes, new headcanon, that's exactly what happened.
Re: Duke of Berwick
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Since it’s a relatively recent publication, I also googled the reviews, and it seems Montesquieu spotted future federalism in the HRE structure and liked it*, but also thought Germans in general were somewhat thick and not capable of intellectual thought and not even that well suited as servants.
*It’s to this day one of the largest differences between Germany and France, where the cultural and administrive Paris-centrism despite some modification still rules. Whereas we are a Federalist Republic which is anything but Berlin-centric, plus Berlin of course only became the general German capital between 1872 - 1945, and then again after unification in 1991.
Waterworks at Herrenhausen: well, they are something to behold! The gardens of Herrenhausen are largely Sophie’s work, btw. (And she died during a stroll through them when sudden rain made everyone run for cover.). I mean, check it out:
Take that, Sanssouci. The small ones are also nice, like this:
And, you know, Herrenhausen in general.
All together now:
G1 & G2: And that’s why we came back here, constant bitching by our British subjects not withstanding!
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Glad you liked it! Credit to you for finding Czernin and pointing me in that direction.
I think you would like the whole work, it's only 200 pages, and it is at the Stabi. Before I bought it, I was naturally checking to see if you could get it in e-book form on the Stabi website, because it's so recent, but alas, no. But what I did find is the "people who research this book are also interested in" item description that read:
Grösse und Niedergang Roms: (1734) = Considérations sur les causes de la grandeur des Romains et de leur décadence; Montesquieu. Mit den Randbemerkungen Friedrichs des Grossen. Übers. und hrsg. von Lothar Schuckert. Fischer-Taschenbuch-Verl., Frankfurt am Main, 1980
In other words, the greatness and decline of Rome, by Montesquieu, with marginal notes by our Fritz! Since the publication date is 1980 and the text is translated, I'm guessing that means Schuckert translated not just the work but also the Fritzian notes into German. I would be super interested to know what Fritz thought of Montesquieu's take on the greatness and decline of Rome! As we've seen, Fritz has some iiiiinteresting Classics opinions! (Socrates was killed? All the sculptors' faults!)
Meaning: the very guy who was getting the Disney reports on FW from Stratemann,
What.
Now either Montesquieu is employing liberal dramatization of what he’s heard, or Stain had other informants than Stratemann, or….?
Well, he can't just be liberally dramatizing what he got from Stratemann via Stain, because his take on FW matches too many other people's. Especially FW starving his family--one of the sentences reads like it could have come straight out of Wilhelmine.
Montesquieu:
One dies of hunger there [at FW's table]. Only one dish is served at a time, which is passed around, and often almost all of it is consumed before the round is over.
Wilhelmine:
There were constantly twenty-four persons at table, eighteen of whom were kept fasting, because our ordinary consisted but of six dishes, and those very sparingly filled.
Whether or not this is an exaggerated anti-FW take like Rottembourg and his two-pronged fork accusation, it's unlikely Montesquieu independently made it up based on Mr. Disney.
Also, I didn't recognize Stain's name, and sure enough, the Stratemann volume's preface names Minister Hieronymus von Münchhausen as the intended recipient of his reports. Doesn't mean von Stain didn't see them, but it would help account for a discrepancy. I imagine one or both of Münchhausen and Stain had other sources.
Incidentally, the ADB says that von Stain in 1729
directed the business of the negotiations conducted in Braunschweig in 1729 under the mediation of the Dukes of Braunschweig and Gotha, which resulted in a settlement of the disputes pending between Prussia and England at the time.
So I imagine he 1) didn't see FW as a saint, 2) had more than one source on him!
it seems Montesquieu spotted future federalism in the HRE structure and liked it
I saw that from the table of contents! I was really hoping to read a lot more, including this, last week, before I did my first post, but reading a lot of German last week did not happen.
also thought Germans in general were somewhat thick and not capable of intellectual thought and not even that well suited as servants.
...Did not catch that. Sigh.
Finally: lovely pictures, thank you for sharing! And lucky you and lucky Georges!
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
ETA: Just saw I could get it as a paperback for less than 7 Euro. Okay, ordered.
Especially FW starving his family
One of many things Wallat & Droyson accuse Wilhelmine of inventing out of thin air, I might add.
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
LOLOL, I didn't think so, which is why I pointed you toward a German copy! Although feel free to start studying French any time, I'm going to be busy with German for a while longer. ;)
ETA: Just saw I could get it as a paperback for less than 7 Euro. Okay, ordered.
Excellent! Such a dedicated salon we are.
One of many things Wallat & Droyson accuse Wilhelmine of inventing out of thin air, I might add.
And not just them, but didn't you in recent months find modern scholars arguing that FW provided abundant food, just middle-class German food instead of fancy French food? (I don't necessarily find envoys' experiences counterevidence; people often punish children by making them go hungry
I wish we had the source for Ziebura's report that AW said he was half-starved as a child (which, admittedly, was apparently a thing for royals and nobles in the 18th century, and often had more to do with servant neglect than parental intentions). I'd love to know where that comes from. I also wish the summary of his life, exaggerated arrest in Strasbourg included, had been published by someone!
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Aww. That's actually kinda cute.
He loves his soldiers, beats them liberally, and then kisses them afterward.
OMG! :D
"Eugene, who is pretty well known," and then moves onto the next person. Needs no introduction!
Hee! I think it's awesome that this guy I'd never heard of before salon, now I'm like "yeah, I guess he needs no introduction..."
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
OMG! :D
OMG indeed!
And lest we forget, the priceless Chesterfield quote from December 1730:
The King of Prussia in the oath he prepared for the Prince to swallow, among many other things, has made him swear that he will never believe in the doctrine of Predestination! A very unnecessary declaration in my mind for any body who has misfortune of being acquainted with him to make, since he himself is a living proof of free-will, for Providence can never be supposed to have pre-ordained such a creature!
Hee! I think it's awesome that this guy I'd never heard of before salon, now I'm like "yeah, I guess he needs no introduction..."
I think that's awesome too! Salon really is like being an 18th century noble/royal with your own private tutors, sans all the dysfunction. <3 salon.
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Salon really is like being an 18th century noble/royal with your own private tutors, sans all the dysfunction. <3 salon.
It really is! Even better than a university education :D <3333
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
Montesquieu reports in 1728 that FS is out of favor because the Empress (MT's mother) gave birth to a daughter, and he couldn't resist showing his pleasure. So whatever intelligence Fritz is relying on is apparently a rumor that's been going around for a few years. (Wishful thinking?)
I would think it might be true, but the last daughter Wikipedia reports is from 1725, and it's unlikely FS would have been out of favor for *that* long without us knowing about it. A couple years I'd believe, but 6 is too many.
But if there was this rumor going around already in 1728, and then FS was in Lorraine from 1729-1731 (because he had just inherited) and thus not at court, I could see where Fritz got the idea he was out of favor in 1731.
Speaking of the 1725 baby, Wikipedia tells me this about Elisabeth Christine the mother of MT:
Three years after her marriage, court doctors prescribed large doses of liquor to make her more fertile, which gave her face a permanent blush. During her 1725 pregnancy, Charles unsuccessfully had her bedchamber decorated with erotic images of male beauty so as to make her expected baby male by stimulating her fantasy. After this, the court doctors prescribed a rich diet to increase her fertility, which made her so fat that she became unable to walk, experienced breathing problems, insomnia and dropsy and had to be lowered into her chairs by a specially constructed machine.
You were saying about not wanting to be a woman in the past,
Also, about the liquor stimulating fertility part, I wonder if they had noticed a correlation between pregnancies and alcohol and decided that alcohol increased your fertility rather than, say, affected your judgment.
Lol.
Re: Montesquieu in Germany
OMG. I feel like... a certain kind of person might actually enjoy being prescribed lots of alcohol, porn, and rich food? Well, probably not the "up to the point of having medical problems" part. But hopefully she enjoyed at least some of that?
*facepalm of not wanting to be a woman in the past*
Re: Montesquieu in Germany