A few notes on the Five Princesses, since I have to return my books. It's, alas, still not a proper write up, not least because this book and Der Kaiser Reist Incognito are structured thematically, not always linearly. But a few morsels.
Firstly, who were the five Princesses? Four of the five were related, all were Austrian aristocracy. Since all of them, being Austrian Catholics, had "Maria" in their names, and their titles were lengthy, biographers tend to simplify our lives by referring to them by another Christian name and the name of the family they married into. This still means a doubling of first names in one case! Reality is just badly written this way. Anyway, they were:
Josepha Clary: The oldest one, already in her midthirties when Joseph became Emperor after his father's death in 1765. The peacemaker of the group, praised by both locals and foreign visitors for her friendly disposition and kindness. Josepha Clary's company, Leopoldine (Kaunitz) told her sister Eleonore Liechtenstein, was like "a sweet perfume that completely envelopes you. (...) She inspires respect and trust.
Sidonia Kinsky: her one years younger sister, the other senior member. Small (as noted by Zinzendorf), according to Lady Mary Coke "the most pleasing figure without being a regular beauty that I ever saw; & her manner extremely agreeable". Prussian envoy Fürst thinks Kaunitz the famous chancellor was romantically interested in Sidonia, but got rebuffed. A great reader and concert lover.
Both sisters were born Hohenzollern-Hechingen; this Swabian line of Hohenzollerns split from the Brandenburg line in the middle ages and remained Catholic.
Leopoldine Liechtenstein: born a Sternberg, married at 16 and thus already a society matron when Joseph becomes Emperor. The only one of the group with out a blood relationship with the other members. Also flirted with Kaunitz the Chancellor a bit without getting serious. More imperious in temper than the older sisters and more serious in manner, but basically kind. Married to a nephew of Wenzel von Liechtenstein the Antinous owner, who after the death of his uncle becomes the next family head.
Leopoldine Kaunitz: married to a son of Kaunitz the chancellor. Has charm when animated, but isn't pretty, as noted by all observers. Otoh, well educated, sharply intelligent, can be relied on for the occasional bon mot and terse comment. Her husband was Austrian envoy in Naples when Sir William Hamilton was English envoy there, MT's daughter had married the King and Vienna Joe was visiting, which is why we have Leopoldine Kaunitz' letters on these events, too. Letters directed at her sister, who was:
Eleonore Liechtenstein: the youngest of the group, in her 20s when the group forms. Married to another nephew of Wenzel von Liechtenstein, Charles. Eleonore is praised as beautiful, dignified and intelligent but more modest about it than her sister (read: she knows how to play it down); Charles Greville, nephew of Sir William Hamilton and ex-lover of Emma whom he has handed over to his uncle, meets her when travelling through Vienna and notes frustratedly she's very devout and won't give him the time of the day. Her being very religious will cause many a clash with ViennaJoe, who starts the group by falling in love with her. Eleonore is also more thin skinned and more easily insulted than the others, yet another reason why she and Joseph would have been a terrible romantic couple, but she's absolutely loyal as a friend (and no matter how fiercely she critisizes Joseph, which is VERY fierce, she will not allow anyone not a member of the group to do so.).
Both sisters were born Öttingen-Spielberg, which means they actually hail from the Bavarian part of the HRE.
Male members other than ViennaJoe: Orsini-Rosenberg, about whom I've already written, and Count Moritz Lacy, who started out as a protegé of Wenzel von Liechtenstein, was a military man and a workhorse able to power through 14 hours a day of work, thus impressing first MT and then Joseph. (Who wasn't aware that Lacy was still corresponding with MT when being his friend, otherwise the friendship might have been not as intimate, as Joseph was very much in his rebelling against Mom phase.) Grave, discreet, good looking, gives nothing away of what he's thinking. At his best in intimate gatherings (like the ones of the circle) when he can relax, not in larger parties where comes across as aloof. Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it. Lacy loses faith in Joseph as a commander-in-chief then and doesn't recover it. But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
Both Orsini-Rosenberg and Lacy are bachelors. The Ladies are all married, but none of the husbands is ever allowed to attend the meetings. Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
Population of Vienna: in 1764, a year after the 7 Years War ended, 155 3000. By 1783, more than 202 700. The second largest city under direct Habsburg control is Prague with 72 824 residents in 1784. Vienna has night time illuminations with 3446 oil lamps burning from dusk til 1:00 am in the streets as of the 1770s.
Eleonore Liechtenstein's husband Charles, who was way older than her, didn't object to her relationship with the Emperor the way he had to her with dashing Irishman O'Donnell, but he did have an affair of his own, with, wait for it, none other than MT's favourite daughter Maria Christina, aka Mimi, aka Isabella's only love. I must say this surprised me because it happened when Maria Christina had already been married to her husband Prince Albert, with whom she supposedly had a happy relationship, having been the only one of MT's children allowed to marry for love. This happened when Albert was serving as governor in Pressburg (Hungary), and Charles Liechtenstein was stationed there while Eleonore remained in Vienna. How do we know? Because Eleonore and her sister Leopoldine Kaunitz refer to this affair in their letters; said letters, which are mostly preserved, are the most important source for the entire circle. (The letters of other members also exist, but not in the same quantity.) Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Description of ViennaJoe by English traveller Swinburne from the 1770s: His manners are easy, his conversation lively, voluble and entertaining; running rapidly from one subject to another, and displaying frequently a vast variety of knowledge. Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect. (...) His accent is rather harsh and nasal. His French is very good, except for a few Germanisms.
Partition of Poland: According to the Prince de Ligne (writer of Prince Eugene memoirs, was present at Neisse), this exchange between Joseph and his ladies happened:
During a gathering of the Dames with the emperor that occured soon after the Polish partitions when the conversation turned upon the recent hanging of a thief, one of the women had remarked, "How was it possible for Your Majesty to condemn him after having stolen Poland?" The emperor had responded that his mother the empress, who was respected by the Dames and attended mass fully as often as they did, had bene perfectly willing to take her share of Poland; "I am merely the first of her subjects."
The author thinks Ligne isn't above stretching the truth for the sake of an anecdote, but otoh it could have happened, and also illustrates that Joseph was fibbing when telling brother Leopold that he doesn't discuss politics with his ladies.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
Thank you for this! I still have the sample on my Kindle, and might get to it someday, after I finish Acton, the book and 2 dissertations on British diplomacy 1709-1731, and Czernin. Hope springs eternal!
The author thinks Ligne isn't above stretching the truth for the sake of an anecdote
Well, definitely not when writing first-person fanfic! ;)
the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants
MT: "What did I tell you about choosing your role models?" :P
Ooh, this is great, I was wondering about these ladies (and men :) )
Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it.
Wait, I don't think I know about those! I feel like there is a story there I would like to hear :D
But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
<3
Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
hee!
Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Aww, I like this. (I am a sucker for -- there's probably a word for this trope which I don't know, but the thing where people get older and mellow out and enmities mellow out too.)
Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect.
Heh, I can... totally see that.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
*nods* That makes sense, and like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! But also it probably says something about his capacity for friendship and love (like Fritz too) that these remained (like in the quote you have above from Eleonore).
I'm glad you liked my write up on the Princesses (plus two). And I have to credit one tumblr entry which a year and a half ago alerted me to their existence, otherwise this part of 18th century history might have escaped me, and it's interesting and at times touching.
We did tell you about the Bavarian War - that was the one where no actual battle in the conventional sense happened, but much scourging for shire/countryside, and which no one other than Joseph was keen on, where Heinrich dropped out after one more Fritz argument and where MT went behind Joseph's back to make peace with Fritz. (Causing Matthias Claudius to write his admiring "Sie machte Frieden!" poem about her when she died not too long afterwards despite being a Protestant Northern German. I did translate that poem for you.) If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred. BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! Verily. And he was warned. The sad thing is, when he died he was massively unpopular - and knew it - but just a few years later (relatively speaking), after Leopold had died as well and Leopold's son Franz II turned out to be an arch reactionary who walked back not just the reforms hs father and uncle had made but even those MT had made in her day, the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
But as you said: he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
And speaking of tumblr, I will re-link you to a fanart about the War of the Bavarian Succession that I've linked before.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred.
*looks around* Me? Okay, but give me some time to research. I remember Blanning covered it briefly in his Joseph book, but I'll have to review it, and get the rest from Wikipedia. I have only a vague idea of this war (but I should fix that).
BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
Which Czernin mentions when Joseph and Lacy meet Fritz at Neisse! (Where Fritz is planning to talk Joseph into the Polish partition, which, are there other mistakes like this in Czernin?)
he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Oh riiiiight the one where MT went behind his back to treat with Fritz! I just hadn't internalized the name/geography to go with it :) (The perils of only identifying wars by the gossipy sensationalism parts...)
the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
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The Charmed Circle
Firstly, who were the five Princesses? Four of the five were related, all were Austrian aristocracy. Since all of them, being Austrian Catholics, had "Maria" in their names, and their titles were lengthy, biographers tend to simplify our lives by referring to them by another Christian name and the name of the family they married into. This still means a doubling of first names in one case! Reality is just badly written this way. Anyway, they were:
Josepha Clary: The oldest one, already in her midthirties when Joseph became Emperor after his father's death in 1765. The peacemaker of the group, praised by both locals and foreign visitors for her friendly disposition and kindness. Josepha Clary's company, Leopoldine (Kaunitz) told her sister Eleonore Liechtenstein, was like "a sweet perfume that completely envelopes you. (...) She inspires respect and trust.
Sidonia Kinsky: her one years younger sister, the other senior member. Small (as noted by Zinzendorf), according to Lady Mary Coke "the most pleasing figure without being a regular beauty that I ever saw; & her manner extremely agreeable". Prussian envoy Fürst thinks Kaunitz the famous chancellor was romantically interested in Sidonia, but got rebuffed. A great reader and concert lover.
Both sisters were born Hohenzollern-Hechingen; this Swabian line of Hohenzollerns split from the Brandenburg line in the middle ages and remained Catholic.
Leopoldine Liechtenstein: born a Sternberg, married at 16 and thus already a society matron when Joseph becomes Emperor. The only one of the group with out a blood relationship with the other members. Also flirted with Kaunitz the Chancellor a bit without getting serious. More imperious in temper than the older sisters and more serious in manner, but basically kind. Married to a nephew of Wenzel von Liechtenstein the Antinous owner, who after the death of his uncle becomes the next family head.
Leopoldine Kaunitz: married to a son of Kaunitz the chancellor. Has charm when animated, but isn't pretty, as noted by all observers. Otoh, well educated, sharply intelligent, can be relied on for the occasional bon mot and terse comment. Her husband was Austrian envoy in Naples when Sir William Hamilton was English envoy there, MT's daughter had married the King and Vienna Joe was visiting, which is why we have Leopoldine Kaunitz' letters on these events, too. Letters directed at her sister, who was:
Eleonore Liechtenstein: the youngest of the group, in her 20s when the group forms. Married to another nephew of Wenzel von Liechtenstein, Charles. Eleonore is praised as beautiful, dignified and intelligent but more modest about it than her sister (read: she knows how to play it down); Charles Greville, nephew of Sir William Hamilton and ex-lover of Emma whom he has handed over to his uncle, meets her when travelling through Vienna and notes frustratedly she's very devout and won't give him the time of the day. Her being very religious will cause many a clash with ViennaJoe, who starts the group by falling in love with her. Eleonore is also more thin skinned and more easily insulted than the others, yet another reason why she and Joseph would have been a terrible romantic couple, but she's absolutely loyal as a friend (and no matter how fiercely she critisizes Joseph, which is VERY fierce, she will not allow anyone not a member of the group to do so.).
Both sisters were born Öttingen-Spielberg, which means they actually hail from the Bavarian part of the HRE.
Male members other than ViennaJoe: Orsini-Rosenberg, about whom I've already written, and Count Moritz Lacy, who started out as a protegé of Wenzel von Liechtenstein, was a military man and a workhorse able to power through 14 hours a day of work, thus impressing first MT and then Joseph. (Who wasn't aware that Lacy was still corresponding with MT when being his friend, otherwise the friendship might have been not as intimate, as Joseph was very much in his rebelling against Mom phase.) Grave, discreet, good looking, gives nothing away of what he's thinking. At his best in intimate gatherings (like the ones of the circle) when he can relax, not in larger parties where comes across as aloof. Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it. Lacy loses faith in Joseph as a commander-in-chief then and doesn't recover it. But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
Both Orsini-Rosenberg and Lacy are bachelors. The Ladies are all married, but none of the husbands is ever allowed to attend the meetings. Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
Population of Vienna: in 1764, a year after the 7 Years War ended, 155 3000. By 1783, more than 202 700. The second largest city under direct Habsburg control is Prague with 72 824 residents in 1784. Vienna has night time illuminations with 3446 oil lamps burning from dusk til 1:00 am in the streets as of the 1770s.
Eleonore Liechtenstein's husband Charles, who was way older than her, didn't object to her relationship with the Emperor the way he had to her with dashing Irishman O'Donnell, but he did have an affair of his own, with, wait for it, none other than MT's favourite daughter Maria Christina, aka Mimi, aka Isabella's only love. I must say this surprised me because it happened when Maria Christina had already been married to her husband Prince Albert, with whom she supposedly had a happy relationship, having been the only one of MT's children allowed to marry for love. This happened when Albert was serving as governor in Pressburg (Hungary), and Charles Liechtenstein was stationed there while Eleonore remained in Vienna. How do we know? Because Eleonore and her sister Leopoldine Kaunitz refer to this affair in their letters; said letters, which are mostly preserved, are the most important source for the entire circle. (The letters of other members also exist, but not in the same quantity.) Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Description of ViennaJoe by English traveller Swinburne from the 1770s: His manners are easy, his conversation lively, voluble and entertaining; running rapidly from one subject to another, and displaying frequently a vast variety of knowledge. Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect. (...) His accent is rather harsh and nasal. His French is very good, except for a few Germanisms.
Partition of Poland: According to the Prince de Ligne (writer of Prince Eugene memoirs, was present at Neisse), this exchange between Joseph and his ladies happened:
During a gathering of the Dames with the emperor that occured soon after the Polish partitions when the conversation turned upon the recent hanging of a thief, one of the women had remarked, "How was it possible for Your Majesty to condemn him after having stolen Poland?"
The emperor had responded that his mother the empress, who was respected by the Dames and attended mass fully as often as they did, had bene perfectly willing to take her share of Poland; "I am merely the first of her subjects."
The author thinks Ligne isn't above stretching the truth for the sake of an anecdote, but otoh it could have happened, and also illustrates that Joseph was fibbing when telling brother Leopold that he doesn't discuss politics with his ladies.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
Re: The Charmed Circle
The author thinks Ligne isn't above stretching the truth for the sake of an anecdote
Well, definitely not when writing first-person fanfic! ;)
the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants
MT: "What did I tell you about choosing your role models?" :P
Re: The Charmed Circle
Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it.
Wait, I don't think I know about those! I feel like there is a story there I would like to hear :D
But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
<3
Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
hee!
Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Aww, I like this. (I am a sucker for -- there's probably a word for this trope which I don't know, but the thing where people get older and mellow out and enmities mellow out too.)
Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect.
Heh, I can... totally see that.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
*nods* That makes sense, and like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! But also it probably says something about his capacity for friendship and love (like Fritz too) that these remained (like in the quote you have above from Eleonore).
Re: The Charmed Circle
We did tell you about the Bavarian War - that was the one where no actual battle in the conventional sense happened, but much scourging for shire/countryside, and which no one other than Joseph was keen on, where Heinrich dropped out after one more Fritz argument and where MT went behind Joseph's back to make peace with Fritz. (Causing Matthias Claudius to write his admiring "Sie machte Frieden!" poem about her when she died not too long afterwards despite being a Protestant Northern German. I did translate that poem for you.) If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred. BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! Verily. And he was warned. The sad thing is, when he died he was massively unpopular - and knew it - but just a few years later (relatively speaking), after Leopold had died as well and Leopold's son Franz II turned out to be an arch reactionary who walked back not just the reforms hs father and uncle had made but even those MT had made in her day, the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
But as you said: he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Re: The Charmed Circle
And speaking of tumblr, I will re-link you to a fanart about the War of the Bavarian Succession that I've linked before.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred.
*looks around* Me? Okay, but give me some time to research. I remember Blanning covered it briefly in his Joseph book, but I'll have to review it, and get the rest from Wikipedia. I have only a vague idea of this war (but I should fix that).
BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
Which Czernin mentions when Joseph and Lacy meet Fritz at Neisse! (Where Fritz is planning to talk Joseph into the Polish partition, which, are there other mistakes like this in Czernin?)
he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Yeah, this is good, and the letter is touching.
Re: The Charmed Circle
the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
Aw, ViennaJoe <3