Ooh, this is great, I was wondering about these ladies (and men :) )
Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it.
Wait, I don't think I know about those! I feel like there is a story there I would like to hear :D
But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
<3
Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
hee!
Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Aww, I like this. (I am a sucker for -- there's probably a word for this trope which I don't know, but the thing where people get older and mellow out and enmities mellow out too.)
Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect.
Heh, I can... totally see that.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
*nods* That makes sense, and like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! But also it probably says something about his capacity for friendship and love (like Fritz too) that these remained (like in the quote you have above from Eleonore).
I'm glad you liked my write up on the Princesses (plus two). And I have to credit one tumblr entry which a year and a half ago alerted me to their existence, otherwise this part of 18th century history might have escaped me, and it's interesting and at times touching.
We did tell you about the Bavarian War - that was the one where no actual battle in the conventional sense happened, but much scourging for shire/countryside, and which no one other than Joseph was keen on, where Heinrich dropped out after one more Fritz argument and where MT went behind Joseph's back to make peace with Fritz. (Causing Matthias Claudius to write his admiring "Sie machte Frieden!" poem about her when she died not too long afterwards despite being a Protestant Northern German. I did translate that poem for you.) If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred. BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! Verily. And he was warned. The sad thing is, when he died he was massively unpopular - and knew it - but just a few years later (relatively speaking), after Leopold had died as well and Leopold's son Franz II turned out to be an arch reactionary who walked back not just the reforms hs father and uncle had made but even those MT had made in her day, the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
But as you said: he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
And speaking of tumblr, I will re-link you to a fanart about the War of the Bavarian Succession that I've linked before.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred.
*looks around* Me? Okay, but give me some time to research. I remember Blanning covered it briefly in his Joseph book, but I'll have to review it, and get the rest from Wikipedia. I have only a vague idea of this war (but I should fix that).
BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
Which Czernin mentions when Joseph and Lacy meet Fritz at Neisse! (Where Fritz is planning to talk Joseph into the Polish partition, which, are there other mistakes like this in Czernin?)
he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Oh riiiiight the one where MT went behind his back to treat with Fritz! I just hadn't internalized the name/geography to go with it :) (The perils of only identifying wars by the gossipy sensationalism parts...)
the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
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Re: The Charmed Circle
Lacy's friendship with Joseph will go through a big crisis when the two military disasters - first the Bavarian War and then the Turkish-Russian one - demonstrate what happens if you adopt Fritz as your role model but don't have the same military talent to go with it.
Wait, I don't think I know about those! I feel like there is a story there I would like to hear :D
But he's present when Joseph dies, holding his hand, and had already been present to console Joseph when Joseph's only daughter died.
<3
Joseph doesn't dislike them exactly, he just has no interest in them.
hee!
Anyway, Eleonore wasn't a fan of Mimi but years and years later when Joseph was already dead and Leopold bit the dust, too, Mimi was the sole one of MT's children still left in Vienna and Eleonore found herself warming up to her for this reason, and they became amiable in their old age.
Aww, I like this. (I am a sucker for -- there's probably a word for this trope which I don't know, but the thing where people get older and mellow out and enmities mellow out too.)
Perhaps he minifests too great a consciousness of possessing extensive information; and he may be repreached likewise with frequently anticipating the answers of the personsn with whom he converses. A mixture of vanity and impetuoasity conduce to this defect.
Heh, I can... totally see that.
That despite emotional ups and downs this circle of friends, having established itself in the early 1770s, remained until Joseph's death in 1790s, as opposed to some members leaving or being exchanged for new favourites (as is common with other monarchs) the author thinks is connected to Joseph's emotional disposition, and the fact his know-it-all-ness, verbal sharpness, ramming down reforms people's throats and lacking the charm with MT - who had her own faults - had and used with people ensured that he was increasingly isolated from people willing to be friends, not sycophants, and/or whom he was able to trust. But these five ladies and two men remained.
*nods* That makes sense, and like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! But also it probably says something about his capacity for friendship and love (like Fritz too) that these remained (like in the quote you have above from Eleonore).
Re: The Charmed Circle
We did tell you about the Bavarian War - that was the one where no actual battle in the conventional sense happened, but much scourging for shire/countryside, and which no one other than Joseph was keen on, where Heinrich dropped out after one more Fritz argument and where MT went behind Joseph's back to make peace with Fritz. (Causing Matthias Claudius to write his admiring "Sie machte Frieden!" poem about her when she died not too long afterwards despite being a Protestant Northern German. I did translate that poem for you.) If you want to reread MT telling Joseph why this war is a bad idea, the letter is here.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred. BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
like mildred says, role models, ViennaJoe! Verily. And he was warned. The sad thing is, when he died he was massively unpopular - and knew it - but just a few years later (relatively speaking), after Leopold had died as well and Leopold's son Franz II turned out to be an arch reactionary who walked back not just the reforms hs father and uncle had made but even those MT had made in her day, the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
But as you said: he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Re: The Charmed Circle
And speaking of tumblr, I will re-link you to a fanart about the War of the Bavarian Succession that I've linked before.
The Austro-Russian-Turkish one I'll leave to Mildred.
*looks around* Me? Okay, but give me some time to research. I remember Blanning covered it briefly in his Joseph book, but I'll have to review it, and get the rest from Wikipedia. I have only a vague idea of this war (but I should fix that).
BTW, Lacy was also the guy who was involved in defeating Fritz at Hochkirch the day Wilhelmine died, so his own military credentials were good.
Which Czernin mentions when Joseph and Lacy meet Fritz at Neisse! (Where Fritz is planning to talk Joseph into the Polish partition, which, are there other mistakes like this in Czernin?)
he kept being able to feel and receive affection till the end.
Yeah, this is good, and the letter is touching.
Re: The Charmed Circle
the Viennese changed their mind and loved him, including making up a rhyme of how Joseph should get down from the one statue in Vienna depicting him, rule again and should put Franz there as a statue in his place.
Aw, ViennaJoe <3