mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2021-03-18 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
AAAHHHH this is so cool, thank you! That's all I can say now, alas, but YAY!
felis: (House renfair)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] felis 2021-03-19 11:16 am (UTC)(link)
Alas, while the Keith/Knobelsdorff thing seems okay, see my comment to Selena below for some doubts I developed regarding the letter.

But! Selena's Gundling write-up pointed me towards the Berliner Adresskalender, which mentions Peter for the first time in 1744, as honorary Academy member, "ObristLieutnant und Stallmeister" (this stays the same until his death), living "in der Brüderstrasse in der Frau v. Kniphausen Hause". From 1748 on, he's listed under Curatores, living "in der Frau von Knyphausen Hause hinten am Wasser hinter der Brüderstrasse". (From 1755 on it's "his" house, without the Knyphausen mention, but the same description. And in 1756 someone actually crossed out his name! :() Now, I don't know if with his ascension to curator, they just updated his address from "Brüderstrasse" to a more exact "at the waterside behind Brüderstrasse", especially because the Knyphausen thing stays the same, but the latter is how one could roughly describe the position of the Jägerhof I guess.
selenak: (DandyLehndorff)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] selenak 2021-03-19 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, if you are browsing through the Berliner Adresskalender - could you possibly check a) where Lehndorff lived in 1756, and b) whether he still lived there in 1759? Because yes, I'm still curious as to whether his wife was exposed to the phosphor inscription on the wallpaper. :) Mind you: given all the constant evacuations of the court to Magdeburg, there might not be a Kalender for the 7 Years War time, but maybe you could check?
felis: (House renfair)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] felis 2021-03-19 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Hm, for some reason, the pre-1757 issues only give military and administration/organization personnel, not the court officials. But I can tell you that 1757-1759, Lehndorff lived "an der Jägerbrücke in des Güther-Verwalter Schließers Hause" and from 1760 on he lived "hinterm Zeughause am Kupfergraben in des Kriegesrath Hn. Westphals Hause".

ETA: Oh, hey, additional 1759 info, "changes during printing": Lehndorf lived "in der Commendantenstrasse an der Ecke der Friedrichsbrücke in des Zelt-Schneider Pielers Hause" - he moved twice in 1759/60?
Edited 2021-03-19 16:52 (UTC)
selenak: (CourtierLehndorff)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] selenak 2021-03-19 04:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, his mother and I think one of his wife's brothers moved in with him that year, so he might have had to! Anyway, thank you so much! So it seems while Marie probably saw the phosphor inscription, she didn't have to live with it for longer than a year, less than that given she spent some of it in Magdeburg anyway.
felis: (House renfair)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] felis 2021-03-19 05:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Or maybe not at all, because I suspect the address books were printed at the end of the old year, given that they also, as the title suggests, contain a calendar, and then as a last page they got the "changes during printing" one. So my guess is that Lehndorff probably moved for the first time before the February 1759 wedding, because the book, including the "during printing" page, should have been finished by then if it was to be used for the year. And then he moved again in 1759, and early enough for the new address to be included in the 1760 calendar regularly.
selenak: (DandyLehndorff)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] selenak 2021-03-19 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Good point! Okay, then his wife probably was spared the "The worthiest of mortals" inscription. Next question: Did Lehndorff have to replace the wallpaper before he moved out? Today, any landlord would have insisted, but then?
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2021-03-21 12:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I know, I'm impressed and tickled too! No detail is too small! :D
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Manger, Knobelsdorff - and Peter Keith!

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2021-03-19 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
That is interesting, because Lehndorff says Jägerhof was given to Peter as a lifelong dwelling. Since it was the royal hunting lodge, I assumed it was given by Fritz directly to Peter. Now it's the Baroness's house? Well, there was the time Fritz apparently gave Peter money to give to the Baroness (hence in my fic), with the implication that it was also a gift for Peter, so...maybe Fritz just liked the Baroness? (Her late husband had been his go-between with French count Rottembourg during the "trying to overthrow FW" days, was in the pay of France according to Lavisse, and lost his job as minister in 1730 due to coming out on the wrong side of the marriage intrigues.)

So maybe it was after the Baroness died (1751 per Wikipedia, which makes it interesting that it's still "her" house until 1755) that Fritz said her son-in-law Peter could keep the house for his lifetime? And then Ariane, until Fritz needed it as a bank?

from "Brüderstrasse" to a more exact "at the waterside behind Brüderstrasse", especially because the Knyphausen thing stays the same, but the latter is how one could roughly describe the position of the Jägerhof I guess.

Yeah, that is odd. The Brüderstrasse is one block east of the water, Jägerhof one-two blocks west. So maybe you're right and they started trying to get it more precise.