I'm not recalling any Augustan poetry plagiarism scandals off the top of my head.
Me neither.
Suhm joins the ranks of people who can't do vivid pen portraits when he depicts Duke Anton Ulrich, whom he portrays in generically positive terms.
I would say "maybe that's why his letters got cut by editors?" except depressingly I suspect it's more in line with the general policy of editing anyone not Fritz' letters as the editors assume the only interest in these people lies in what reactions they get out of Fritz.
Also, I, too, hope Anton Ulrich got some benefit from Wolff's collected works, poor guy.
Yeah, so apparently Suhm would have been 100% behind the Silesian invasion.
I think if you're not pro-Imperially minded and a member of Fritz' circle, that's almost guaranteed. (Which is why I raised both eyebrows when the novel about Knobelsdorff I've just finished depicted Knobelsdorff as horrified by it. I can buy Knobelsdorff disagreeing with Fritz on a number of issues. (Knobelsdorff would notoriously clash with Fritz repeatedly on later occasions because the older Fritz got, the more sure he was that He Knew Best about architecture, too, and Knobelsdorff who had a sound self confidence reacted as you would as a pro if an amateur keeps trying to tell you your business.) But in the winter of 1740/1741, about Silesia? Yeah, no.
(Manteuffel's own withering take down on Fritz' justifications to a correspondent who is all "Yay!" about it come from a man not in Prussia anymore who's broken up with Fritz. We'll never know whether he'd have thought the same way if he'd still been a member of Fritz' circle, though between his life long pro-Imperial policy and his non-impressedness with most royals, he might have. He sure as hell would not have written or said anything compromising then.)
I mean, going native is a thing for envoys. Hoym, long-time Saxon envoy to France, was accused of it when he returned (and thus his pro-France foreign policy surprises me not at all). For all that Suhm didn't fit in very well with FW, after 10 years in Berlin, he clearly went native as a Prussian (hence choosing to stay in Berlin for 6 years as a private citizen, until he needed money, which can't have all been a desire to stay near a Fritz he barely saw).
Agreed. You can add Mitchell who notoriously pissed off his superiors in London with his pro-Prussia reports from the front enough that they replaced him with Joseph Yorke for a hot second before relenting to Fritz wanting to keep Mitchell, and who remained in Prussia till his death despite Prussia/England relationships having gone downhill again and despite his own relationship with Fritz having become looser (and more critical) too. Of course, both Suhm and Mitchell appear to have been good at socializing and making friends with the locals beyond establishling useful connections at court; hence, for example, Lehndorff becoming one of Mitchell's friends (this started in Lehndorff's Hotham jr. inspired enthusiastic Anglophile phase, granted, but it lasted till Mitchell's death), and the Queen's chamberlain as any pro like Mitchell would quickly see is not someone with useful influence at all. For that matter, Manteuffel was excellent at making friends, too, not just via spreading Saxon money; one reason why he remained in contact with Berlin intellectuals after leaving for good, not just with the remains with his spy network, and Manteuffel lived in Berlin so often (briefly as a young man at F1's court, then as an envoy in the last F1 years till 1716, and then from 1733 to 1740) that it's relatively safe to say he liked it there, and probably cared about a Prussia/Saxony alliance beyond the political use.
Unsurprisingly, the envoys who can't stand Berlin (or Fritz) are the ones like Hanbury Williams who also don't have any contact with the locals. (Remmeber, the only enduring relationship Hanbury Williams forged during his time in Berlin was with another lost foreigner, young Poniatowski.) Incidentally, it has occured to me that in a perverse way, Suhm being ready to commit to him and Prussia might have been one of the reasons why Fritz absolutely did not want someone like Peter, who liked it in England and had forged ties there, as an envoy - he was vain, but not so much that he believed becoming emotionally attached to your posting could happen only when he was there.
Rottembourg: I forgot to mention this, but Morgenstern claims he liked it so much in FW's Prussia that he longed for it from Madrid. After reading Leineweber, I choose to believe this was another instant where Morgenstern was being sarcastic.
I would say "maybe that's why his letters got cut by editors?" except depressingly I suspect it's more in line with the general policy of editing anyone not Fritz' letters as the editors assume the only interest in these people lies in what reactions they get out of Fritz.
Sadly, this was my thought too.
I think if you're not pro-Imperially minded and a member of Fritz' circle, that's almost guaranteed.
But until this past week, I had no idea how Suhm, a Saxon envoy, might feel about the HRE! Only in the past few days has a picture of pro-England, anti-HRE leanings started to emerge. (Which, as noted, would explain a lot about FW's feelings, even beyond Suhm/Fritz.)
I look forward to the Knobelsdorff and Gundling novel write-ups!
You can add Mitchell who notoriously pissed off his superiors in London with his pro-Prussia reports from the front enough that they replaced him with Joseph Yorke for a hot second before relenting to Fritz wanting to keep Mitchell
Oh, right, yes, him too!
Incidentally, it has occured to me that in a perverse way, Suhm being ready to commit to him and Prussia might have been one of the reasons why Fritz absolutely did not want someone like Peter, who liked it in England and had forged ties there, as an envoy - he was vain, but not so much that he believed becoming emotionally attached to your posting could happen only when he was there.
Well, he wrote that the British regard Peter as "half a Briton," and it sure didn't sound like he disagreed, so I suspect he already suspected Peter of having gone native.
Rottembourg: I forgot to mention this, but Morgenstern claims he liked it so much in FW's Prussia that he longed for it from Madrid. After reading Leineweber, I choose to believe this was another instant where Morgenstern was being sarcastic.
Rottembourg, of all people!
So I consider it plausible and even likely that Rottembourg missed people that he left behind. He had clearly forged close ties with Katte, so most likely with other Berliners as well.
He may, while in Madrid, have written that he missed X about Prussia/Berlin. Humans can always find something to complain about!
He may even have been telling the truth that the reason he wanted to leave was his health (he did die in 1735, shortly after being recalled from Madrid for that reason).
But what I don't buy is that he missed *FW's* Prussia, qua FW's Prussia. Not the guy who put the finishing touches on Katte's French manners and tried to stage a coup! If he missed anything, it was SD's Prussia.
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Re: Suhm letters III
Me neither.
Suhm joins the ranks of people who can't do vivid pen portraits when he depicts Duke Anton Ulrich, whom he portrays in generically positive terms.
I would say "maybe that's why his letters got cut by editors?" except depressingly I suspect it's more in line with the general policy of editing anyone not Fritz' letters as the editors assume the only interest in these people lies in what reactions they get out of Fritz.
Also, I, too, hope Anton Ulrich got some benefit from Wolff's collected works, poor guy.
Yeah, so apparently Suhm would have been 100% behind the Silesian invasion.
I think if you're not pro-Imperially minded and a member of Fritz' circle, that's almost guaranteed. (Which is why I raised both eyebrows when the novel about Knobelsdorff I've just finished depicted Knobelsdorff as horrified by it. I can buy Knobelsdorff disagreeing with Fritz on a number of issues. (Knobelsdorff would notoriously clash with Fritz repeatedly on later occasions because the older Fritz got, the more sure he was that He Knew Best about architecture, too, and Knobelsdorff who had a sound self confidence reacted as you would as a pro if an amateur keeps trying to tell you your business.) But in the winter of 1740/1741, about Silesia? Yeah, no.
(Manteuffel's own withering take down on Fritz' justifications to a correspondent who is all "Yay!" about it come from a man not in Prussia anymore who's broken up with Fritz. We'll never know whether he'd have thought the same way if he'd still been a member of Fritz' circle, though between his life long pro-Imperial policy and his non-impressedness with most royals, he might have. He sure as hell would not have written or said anything compromising then.)
I mean, going native is a thing for envoys. Hoym, long-time Saxon envoy to France, was accused of it when he returned (and thus his pro-France foreign policy surprises me not at all). For all that Suhm didn't fit in very well with FW, after 10 years in Berlin, he clearly went native as a Prussian (hence choosing to stay in Berlin for 6 years as a private citizen, until he needed money, which can't have all been a desire to stay near a Fritz he barely saw).
Agreed. You can add Mitchell who notoriously pissed off his superiors in London with his pro-Prussia reports from the front enough that they replaced him with Joseph Yorke for a hot second before relenting to Fritz wanting to keep Mitchell, and who remained in Prussia till his death despite Prussia/England relationships having gone downhill again and despite his own relationship with Fritz having become looser (and more critical) too. Of course, both Suhm and Mitchell appear to have been good at socializing and making friends with the locals beyond establishling useful connections at court; hence, for example, Lehndorff becoming one of Mitchell's friends (this started in Lehndorff's Hotham jr. inspired enthusiastic Anglophile phase, granted, but it lasted till Mitchell's death), and the Queen's chamberlain as any pro like Mitchell would quickly see is not someone with useful influence at all. For that matter, Manteuffel was excellent at making friends, too, not just via spreading Saxon money; one reason why he remained in contact with Berlin intellectuals after leaving for good, not just with the remains with his spy network, and Manteuffel lived in Berlin so often (briefly as a young man at F1's court, then as an envoy in the last F1 years till 1716, and then from 1733 to 1740) that it's relatively safe to say he liked it there, and probably cared about a Prussia/Saxony alliance beyond the political use.
Unsurprisingly, the envoys who can't stand Berlin (or Fritz) are the ones like Hanbury Williams who also don't have any contact with the locals. (Remmeber, the only enduring relationship Hanbury Williams forged during his time in Berlin was with another lost foreigner, young Poniatowski.) Incidentally, it has occured to me that in a perverse way, Suhm being ready to commit to him and Prussia might have been one of the reasons why Fritz absolutely did not want someone like Peter, who liked it in England and had forged ties there, as an envoy - he was vain, but not so much that he believed becoming emotionally attached to your posting could happen only when he was there.
Rottembourg: I forgot to mention this, but Morgenstern claims he liked it so much in FW's Prussia that he longed for it from Madrid. After reading Leineweber, I choose to believe this was another instant where Morgenstern was being sarcastic.
Re: Suhm letters III
Sadly, this was my thought too.
I think if you're not pro-Imperially minded and a member of Fritz' circle, that's almost guaranteed.
But until this past week, I had no idea how Suhm, a Saxon envoy, might feel about the HRE! Only in the past few days has a picture of pro-England, anti-HRE leanings started to emerge. (Which, as noted, would explain a lot about FW's feelings, even beyond Suhm/Fritz.)
I look forward to the Knobelsdorff and Gundling novel write-ups!
You can add Mitchell who notoriously pissed off his superiors in London with his pro-Prussia reports from the front enough that they replaced him with Joseph Yorke for a hot second before relenting to Fritz wanting to keep Mitchell
Oh, right, yes, him too!
Incidentally, it has occured to me that in a perverse way, Suhm being ready to commit to him and Prussia might have been one of the reasons why Fritz absolutely did not want someone like Peter, who liked it in England and had forged ties there, as an envoy - he was vain, but not so much that he believed becoming emotionally attached to your posting could happen only when he was there.
Well, he wrote that the British regard Peter as "half a Briton," and it sure didn't sound like he disagreed, so I suspect he already suspected Peter of having gone native.
Rottembourg: I forgot to mention this, but Morgenstern claims he liked it so much in FW's Prussia that he longed for it from Madrid. After reading Leineweber, I choose to believe this was another instant where Morgenstern was being sarcastic.
Rottembourg, of all people!
So I consider it plausible and even likely that Rottembourg missed people that he left behind. He had clearly forged close ties with Katte, so most likely with other Berliners as well.
He may, while in Madrid, have written that he missed X about Prussia/Berlin. Humans can always find something to complain about!
He may even have been telling the truth that the reason he wanted to leave was his health (he did die in 1735, shortly after being recalled from Madrid for that reason).
But what I don't buy is that he missed *FW's* Prussia, qua FW's Prussia. Not the guy who put the finishing touches on Katte's French manners and tried to stage a coup! If he missed anything, it was SD's Prussia.
So yeah, Ima guess sarcasm with you. :P