Okay, your writeup of Morgenstern and Leineweber was a totally fascinating read! (But tonight I will probably just get to this one...)
The preface tells me Morgenstern also claimed to have been a secret agent for FW who stopped a Prussian/British war in 1739 (though the book itself says that it was in 1737 that the author was in Britain on a mission for FW), and that even Fritz "used him, made him vice chancellor of Silesia yet recalled him to Potsdam in 1756, where he died later".
Heh, case in point as to where it's fascinating to compare.
HOWEVER, he was an utterly faithful husband to SD, despite being tempted as a young man.
Well, I guess we agree on that. Although that's kind of an awful story about Charlotte!
(Lord Hervey, somewhere in the hereafter: *spit take*)
HAHAHAHA
And the wonderful story of FW on his deathbed telling SD she can write to her brother that he, FW, forgives him. But only after he's dead.
I must admit that is a good story, one of the few vaguely-endearing ones you guys told me :P
"Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty."
Wooooow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin. FW!
and also he murdered little baby Friedrich Ludwig with his stupid salute shooting
Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier -- I snorted a bit there; there are so many ways they legit killed babies back then (like bleeding them for measles, omg) and salute shooting is the best he could come up with? :P
I am very hard trying to take this solely as referring to Hephaistion as an example of a "good" favourite here, but you're not making it easy, Morgenstern.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
a misunderstanding which arose, says he, because "of the beatings, because of the recruitment excesses and because of the strict executions".
Huuuuuh, I may be coming around to Leineweber's view of things, that is just... he'd have to be painfully unselfaware to write something like that otherwise. Especially given the, well, Great Incident. (And, I mean, Katte repented :PP )
"No one can deny that the late King has been the most compassionate towards the victims of his rage."
Wooooow. Yeah, either Morgenstern had to be the most naive person ever (but then whence all the secret agent stuff?) or he was writing that sentence with a lot of angry humor.
1.) Abt, who then died twice.
I don't get this, does this mean that he loved FW so much that he felt like he was dying too?
"...but for every stroke with the paintbrush which the King didn't manage well, Hänsgen got a rich share of pushes and slaps.
Heh.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
I don't get this, does this mean that he loved FW so much that he felt like he was dying too?
I didn't get it, either, but I literally translated what was there "...der danach zweimal starb". No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.
Wooooow. Yeah, either Morgenstern had to be the most naive person ever (but then whence all the secret agent stuff?) or he was writing that sentence with a lot of angry humor.
The biographical background info does make a difference to my own estimation, too. Though I do think he meant all the praise for FW the hard worker and reformer, and Leineweber pointed out to me there are a few subtle Fritz disses in the text, too, as when he says that FW's money was as good as his word (remember the coin-clipping during the 7 Years War as well was Fritz' economical relationship to the truth?). But yes, he'd have to be a fan on the Zimmermann level to mean all "no one had more pity with the victims of his rage than FW" stuff, and learning more about him swayed me to the side of "he just wasn't".
Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier -- I snorted a bit there; there are so many ways they legit killed babies back then (like bleeding them for measles, omg) and salute shooting is the best he could come up with? :P
"Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty."
Wooooow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin. FW!
Presumably he was joking, because given his state of health and SD's, it was at this point obvious who was likely to survive whom. Not to mention that a widowed Anne wasn't likely to take him as a husband, either, especially if her father had any say in this. But jokes with FW usually have a kernel of truth. Whether or not he found Anne attractive (and a less pretty version of Caroline), he really liked the Netherlands. In some of his retirement fantasies, which were about as realistic as Fritz' retirement fantasies decades later but which he did have and voiced, he wondered about going to the Netherlands and living there in his old age. (Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.) And maybe there was something to Morgenstern's claim of FW wishing William of Orange had made him his heir or at least gotten him elected Stateholder of the Netherlands if not King of GB. In theory, if he'd married a widowed Anne, this still could have happened.
Although that's kind of an awful story about Charlotte!
Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)
Incidentally, Morgenstern being able to write about a vagina - "source of all joy" euphemism not withstanding - tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Presumably he was joking, because given his state of health and SD's, it was at this point obvious who was likely to survive whom.
I was going to suggest death in childbirth, but then I checked the date, and in 1738, yeah, no, I agree he's joking.
No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.
Talking about failing in one's duties to posterity!
Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.
51, as a reminder.
Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)
Well, if he's specifically referring to her vagina, it could alternately be hygiene or an infection.
...In keeping with the theme of our gossipy salon and the signed testimonies on the state of Fritz's penis, I have now read an article on various vagina smells and what can cause them. Aside from the usual suspects, there was this one I hadn't predicted:
When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.
Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!
Also, according to this article, sweet-smelling odors are a thing for some women, and are perfectly normal and healthy!
See, in the olden days, you had to ask around at your drinking club. These days, we have google! :P
tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.
Definitely.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
...In keeping with the theme of our gossipy salon and the signed testimonies on the state of Fritz's penis, I have now read an article on various vagina smells and what can cause them. Aside from the usual suspects, there was this one I hadn't predicted:
When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.
Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!
No kidding, and go you for being so thorough as to unearth that fact. I can't think of a time when SD most likely wasn't anxious in her marriage, not even the early years when F1 was still reigning King, because at that point the pressure to deliver a male heir on her was highest.
This biological fact probably also explains Philippe d'Orleans, who made that comment about his first wife, because his marriage to Henriette "Minette" was a catastrophe from start to finish.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
You're welcome. Because Philippe is a very sympathetic character in Versailles, a lot of younger people got interested in him and promptly exploded into indignation of how he was presented in a great many work of fiction and non fiction before Versailles. As, for example, in the (mostly very good) tv series about Charles II, "C2: The Power and the Passion". And there were cries of homophobia galore. Which, yes, always a factor that can't be discounted, but within the context of his first marriage he did often behave terrible, and Minette had an increasing awful life because of it. Was she herself also at fault? In that she at the very least flirted with her brother-in-law early in the marriage and then with one of Philippe's boyfriends, the Comte de Guiche, yes. But as her husband, he had the greater power, and he did use it in every way a husband hating his wife at that time could. That's not something homophobic scriptwriters or novelists made up, it's something well documented via plenty of letters both from everyone involved and from French and visiting nobles at Versailles.
In conclusion, as we've said about many a royal woman: would not have wanted to be one for love or money, not ever.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
A very singular adventure has happened here. The old valet Abt, ill in agony, surrounded by priests, doctors, and all the paraphernalia with which the living dress those who want to leave this world, thought he was dying, and persuaded his spectators so well that, after his last sigh, they laid him down on the mattress [in a coffin I suspect]. Three hours after his death, people heard a great noise; a general rumor arose in the house. But who was the most surprised was the wife to see the deceased full of life and very unhappy to see himself at the edge of the tomb, having great appetite and no desire to leave yet. People cry out a miracle, the neighborhood rushes in, the priests arrive, with them the Faculty of surgeons and doctors; in short, it took more than a hundred people to persuade Madame that Monsieur was not dead, and that he should be looked at as full of life. Even better, that the patient approaches convalescence more than death, and that Madame does not appear otherwise edified. I found the singularity of this story worthy of being related to my very dear mother. I wish I could entertain her with something better, but still it is a lot when Potsdam provides such a tale.
:-D
... I actually briefly googled this a couple of days ago and the only thing I discovered was that Johann Friedrich Abt was FW's oldest valet, already with him when FW was still crown prince. And then just now I decided to search Trier, not expecting anything - and there it was! Thank you, Fritz!
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Another score! Go you for tracking down Abt the twice dying, that's most impressive, she says in her most sinister Vader voice. BTW,this cross confirmation heightens my confidence that Morgenstern's later life FW factoids are in fact correct. Since he's writing his FW biography in the late 1760s at the earliest and in 1782 at the latest, he also must have a great memory to recall the name of the valets at the time of FW's death, and what subsequently became of them.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Yeah, it's always nice to get confirmation like this. On the other hand, I guess a story like this would have been told and re-told for years - which is probably the reason Morgenstern doesn't elaborate in the first place, assuming that people during his time have heard it and therefore using it as a shorthand to identify Abt.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
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Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
The preface tells me Morgenstern also claimed to have been a secret agent for FW who stopped a Prussian/British war in 1739 (though the book itself says that it was in 1737 that the author was in Britain on a mission for FW), and that even Fritz "used him, made him vice chancellor of Silesia yet recalled him to Potsdam in 1756, where he died later".
Heh, case in point as to where it's fascinating to compare.
HOWEVER, he was an utterly faithful husband to SD, despite being tempted as a young man.
Well, I guess we agree on that. Although that's kind of an awful story about Charlotte!
(Lord Hervey, somewhere in the hereafter: *spit take*)
HAHAHAHA
And the wonderful story of FW on his deathbed telling SD she can write to her brother that he, FW, forgives him. But only after he's dead.
I must admit that is a good story, one of the few vaguely-endearing ones you guys told me :P
"Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty."
Wooooow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin. FW!
and also he murdered little baby Friedrich Ludwig with his stupid salute shooting
Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier -- I snorted a bit there; there are so many ways they legit killed babies back then (like bleeding them for measles, omg) and salute shooting is the best he could come up with? :P
I am very hard trying to take this solely as referring to Hephaistion as an example of a "good" favourite here, but you're not making it easy, Morgenstern.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
a misunderstanding which arose, says he, because "of the beatings, because of the recruitment excesses and because of the strict executions".
Huuuuuh, I may be coming around to Leineweber's view of things, that is just... he'd have to be painfully unselfaware to write something like that otherwise. Especially given the, well, Great Incident. (And, I mean, Katte repented :PP )
"No one can deny that the late King has been the most compassionate towards the victims of his rage."
Wooooow. Yeah, either Morgenstern had to be the most naive person ever (but then whence all the secret agent stuff?) or he was writing that sentence with a lot of angry humor.
1.) Abt, who then died twice.
I don't get this, does this mean that he loved FW so much that he felt like he was dying too?
"...but for every stroke with the paintbrush which the King didn't manage well, Hänsgen got a rich share of pushes and slaps.
Heh.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
1.) Abt, who then died twice.
I don't get this, does this mean that he loved FW so much that he felt like he was dying too?
I didn't get it, either, but I literally translated what was there "...der danach zweimal starb". No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.
Wooooow. Yeah, either Morgenstern had to be the most naive person ever (but then whence all the secret agent stuff?) or he was writing that sentence with a lot of angry humor.
The biographical background info does make a difference to my own estimation, too. Though I do think he meant all the praise for FW the hard worker and reformer, and Leineweber pointed out to me there are a few subtle Fritz disses in the text, too, as when he says that FW's money was as good as his word (remember the coin-clipping during the 7 Years War as well was Fritz' economical relationship to the truth?). But yes, he'd have to be a fan on the Zimmermann level to mean all "no one had more pity with the victims of his rage than FW" stuff, and learning more about him swayed me to the side of "he just wasn't".
Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier -- I snorted a bit there; there are so many ways they legit killed babies back then (like bleeding them for measles, omg) and salute shooting is the best he could come up with? :P
Especially since according to according to this entry by F1's master of the ceremonies on Fritz' birth salutes were shot and bells were rung as well, and baby Fritz survived.
"Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty."
Wooooow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin. FW!
Presumably he was joking, because given his state of health and SD's, it was at this point obvious who was likely to survive whom. Not to mention that a widowed Anne wasn't likely to take him as a husband, either, especially if her father had any say in this. But jokes with FW usually have a kernel of truth. Whether or not he found Anne attractive (and a less pretty version of Caroline), he really liked the Netherlands. In some of his retirement fantasies, which were about as realistic as Fritz' retirement fantasies decades later but which he did have and voiced, he wondered about going to the Netherlands and living there in his old age. (Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.) And maybe there was something to Morgenstern's claim of FW wishing William of Orange had made him his heir or at least gotten him elected Stateholder of the Netherlands if not King of GB. In theory, if he'd married a widowed Anne, this still could have happened.
Although that's kind of an awful story about Charlotte!
Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)
Incidentally, Morgenstern being able to write about a vagina - "source of all joy" euphemism not withstanding - tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
I was going to suggest death in childbirth, but then I checked the date, and in 1738, yeah, no, I agree he's joking.
No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.
Talking about failing in one's duties to posterity!
Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.
51, as a reminder.
Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)
Well, if he's specifically referring to her vagina, it could alternately be hygiene or an infection.
...In keeping with the theme of our gossipy salon and the signed testimonies on the state of Fritz's penis, I have now read an article on various vagina smells and what can cause them. Aside from the usual suspects, there was this one I hadn't predicted:
When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.
Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!
Also, according to this article, sweet-smelling odors are a thing for some women, and are perfectly normal and healthy!
See, in the olden days, you had to ask around at your drinking club. These days, we have google! :P
tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.
Definitely.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.
Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!
No kidding, and go you for being so thorough as to unearth that fact. I can't think of a time when SD most likely wasn't anxious in her marriage, not even the early years when F1 was still reigning King, because at that point the pressure to deliver a male heir on her was highest.
This biological fact probably also explains Philippe d'Orleans, who made that comment about his first wife, because his marriage to Henriette "Minette" was a catastrophe from start to finish.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Your write-up on Minette was interesting and horrifying. Thank you!
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
In conclusion, as we've said about many a royal woman: would not have wanted to be one for love or money, not ever.
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Letter from Fritz to SD, February 22nd, 1745:
A very singular adventure has happened here. The old valet Abt, ill in agony, surrounded by priests, doctors, and all the paraphernalia with which the living dress those who want to leave this world, thought he was dying, and persuaded his spectators so well that, after his last sigh, they laid him down on the mattress [in a coffin I suspect]. Three hours after his death, people heard a great noise; a general rumor arose in the house. But who was the most surprised was the wife to see the deceased full of life and very unhappy to see himself at the edge of the tomb, having great appetite and no desire to leave yet. People cry out a miracle, the neighborhood rushes in, the priests arrive, with them the Faculty of surgeons and doctors; in short, it took more than a hundred people to persuade Madame that Monsieur was not dead, and that he should be looked at as full of life. Even better, that the patient approaches convalescence more than death, and that Madame does not appear otherwise edified. I found the singularity of this story worthy of being related to my very dear mother. I wish I could entertain her with something better, but still it is a lot when Potsdam provides such a tale.
:-D
... I actually briefly googled this a couple of days ago and the only thing I discovered was that Johann Friedrich Abt was FW's oldest valet, already with him when FW was still crown prince. And then just now I decided to search Trier, not expecting anything - and there it was! Thank you, Fritz!
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A
Re: He's just a soul whose intentions were good: Morgenstern on FW - A