cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 22 (or: Yuletide 2020 edition)

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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 22 (or: Yuletide 2020 edition)

ETA: Whoops, I missed my cue -- this might as well be the next discussion post, I guess! :)

This is about the fic I didn't author (I have another reveals post for the fics I did author).

So my goal this Yuletide was NOT to write any historical fandom (because hard!) and just enjoy the excellent stuff that other people wrote. And... that sort of happened? I didn't end up authoring anything history-intensive? Buuuuut I ended up spending a lot more time than I did on any of my own fics working with

mildred_of_midgard on her fic, which she was worried about being able to pull off because she had had this completely insane idea to write a long casefic about Frederick the Great that every time I turned around had another twist put in :P :) She supplied me with what we called a "rough opal in matrix" bus pass casefic, and I cut away the matrix that remained and in some cases carved the opal -- that is to say, writing additional text for some of the scenes, what we liked to call "putting in feels," and in at least two cases entirely rewriting and/or restructuring the scene she'd written. She didn't always keep what I wrote (which we'd agreed upon in the beginning), but when she did (which was most of the time :) ) she then went in and rewrote/restructured what I put in to wordsmith (some of the words I gave her were really rough) and match her style, adding even more scenes -- that is, polishing it up and adding some gold and diamonds -- and voila, a beautiful pendant, I mean, story :)

I'm really proud of it and also it was really fun and also what I could handle this year, especially because mildred did all the parts I thought were hard and also wrote all the parts involving actual history or subtle AU before I was brought in so I didn't actually have to know historical stuff (though I guess I will never forget the battle of Leuthen now), and took full responsibility for how the whole thing turned out, so all I had to do was be like "Here, I'll write some rough feels for you for this scene!" The funny part was that I would often then write a paragraph justifying why I *had* to write the scene the way I did, and more likely than not mildred would be like, "yeah, I was sure you would do that, of course it should be written like that." (The most glaring example of this was where I inserted the Letter of Doom at the climax. I was worried there was some reason she didn't want it there, but she said, no, she just didn't have time to put it in herself and was just trusting me to do that :) ) She started jokingly calling me her "other self," to which I replied that it was with 1000% less angst and frustration -- as Frederick the Great's brother was his "other self" (which actually comes up in the fic) that he could trust to do all kinds of competent things, but they had a relationship that was, um, fraught? radioactive? Whereas this was just fun :)

Mildred did so much more than I did (we estimated a 90%/10% word ratio, not even counting the part where she wordsmithed a lot of my text) that I felt very uncomfortable being listed as a co-author, but hey, ~3000 words is a respectable Yuletide fic length :)

Yet They Grind Exceedingly Small (30384 words) by mildred_of_midgard
Chapters: 5/5
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, Historical RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Major Character Death
Relationships: Anna Amalie von Preußen & Wilhelmine von Preußen, Anna Amalie von Preußen & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen, Wilhelmine von Preußen & Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia
Characters: Anna Amalie von Preußen (1723-1787), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758), Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802), Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth (1732-1780), Wilhelmine von Hesse-Kassel (1726-1808), August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Alcmene 1 | Frederick the Great's Italian Greyhound, Voltaire (Writer), Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Dysfunctional Family, Suicide, Alternate Universe - Dark, Siblings, Canon-Typical Violence, Mystery, Tide of History Challenge
Summary:

January 1758. Prince William is dead, some say of a broken heart. Frederick wants to absolve himself of blame for William's death. Henry schemes to end the Third Silesian War on his terms. Amalie and Wilhelmine team up to find out what really happened to their brother. Alcmene just wants to be told she's a good dog.

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It was a good description, what can I say. :)

BTW, I was chuffed that both you and

cahn spotted the half a sentence about Heinrich advising AW to start his own war in Fredersdorf's timeline. I just couldn't resist. In addition to the whole similarity of temperament and talents, there's this: if Fritz dies in the summer of 1741, Heinrich most likely really doesn't have negative memories of him. (Unless Heinrich was the brother visiting and raiding the larder, but even then, he was young enough to maybe not have noticed how ticked off Fritz was, unless they both responded like in my emojis.) And no idea of how negatively Fritz would have impacted the lives of his siblings. Or how his ability to piss off half of Europe would result in Prussia's political isolation. No, Fritz is probably a (dead) hero to him, more an example to follow (instead of a warning example) than anything else.

As I mentioned in my reply to Mildred's comments, when writing I did consider Fritz figuring out the truth just before the last of older Fredersdorf is gone, but refrained for various reasons - there was enough angst already, and Frederick the Great should not find out time travel to alter the past was possible. (And Heinrich better not find out there was a timeline where AW was King etc.) Mildred said yes, but otoh she wouldn't mind reading stories where he does, and/or the time wars between Fritz and Heinrich.

Now, leaving aside what Heinrich would do for the moment, let's focus on Fritz: if he got a hold on the potion Saint-Germain and Fredersdorf co-invent in this story, where would he go? Because of the forgetting factor, chances are he only could do it once, and would have a limited amount of time before he's forgotten why he came. The obvious temptation is to save Katte's life, but how? Also, there are other factors to consider, such as: if Katte does not get executed in Küstrin while Fritz is a prisoner there, Fritz and Fredersdorf likely never meet, and Fredersdorf stays an obscure soldier in some backwards regiment. And of course, depending on when Fritz goes back (i.e. how long has he been King until then?) - if he tries for a scenario where he does successfully escape with Katte after all (by not writing that fatal letter, by making his escape attempt much earlier during the South German tour with Dad, etc.), he'd have to consider he won't become King, and I have a hard time imagining later day Fritz, who has tasted power, creating a world where he'll be powerless even for love.

So, if the aim of the time travel is to save Katte, I could imagine two alternate things:

- he goes back to when they started to become friends and snubs Katte unforgivably instead, unleashing the full cruel-tongued Old Fritz on him. No friendship with Katte = Katte lives, whether in Prussia or elsewhere, and Fritz still becomes King. Fritz may or may not also use the brief time he has to contact Schwerin and ask for Fredersdorf to be transfered to Potsdam if he can engineer that without making Dad suspicious

- he kills FW by opium, err, in some way not traceable to him. Then he becomes King, and can keep Katte and Wilhelmine. (May or may not use the limited time to ask for a Fredersdorf transfer as well.) The problem here is that Fritz in rl even under the most dire provocation never seems to have considered killing FW, but hey, if Heinrich gets to be a fratricide in an AU despite not having made any move in that direction in rl, Fritz becoming a patricide can also be on.

Lastly: or older Fritz, who now knows a thing or two about MT, doesn't do anything Katte related at all with that time travel potion and instead goes back to give the order to march to Vienna in 1741. That would be a Fritz during the 7 Years War travelling back. :)

Edited 2021-01-02 06:15 (UTC)

BTW, I was chuffed that both you and [personal profile] cahn spotted the half a sentence about Heinrich advising AW to start his own war in Fredersdorf's timeline.

And now you know we spent quite a lot of time on Heinrich becoming Fritz, so there was no way I wasn't going to notice that and remark on it :D Salon hive mind strikes again! I didn't think of the non-negative memories thing, though!

Mildred said yes, but otoh she wouldn't mind reading stories where he does, and/or the time wars between Fritz and Heinrich.

Time wars between Fritz and Heinrich...???? !!!! this is a thing I can have? YES PLEASE where do I sign up???? (Time wars between anybody? MT finds out about time travel too? They start tearing up the timeline between them? I AM THERE)

I am also really intrigued to the possibilities you've set out for Fritz here, especially that he wouldn't give up power for love. That first possibility, where he gives up Katte entirely (at least for then?) but Katte lives is so interesting to me (and will Fritz write a note to himself to talk to Katte in the future after he becomes king, but what will Katte think??) -- although I am going to bet my hat (except that I had to eat it when it turned out mildred was the author of Corporate AU) that mildred will 1000% prefer Option 2. (Which I admit is way more satisfying.)

But Option 3 would also be Something Else :D (Love or Vienna? Hmm. :) )

Well, being me, my instinct is to go with Option 1. It seems the “Katte lives!” AUS that appeal to me most are of the “break it differently” type. Because for starters, I doubt a Katte fully exposed to Old Fritz before he has the chance to fall in love with Young Fritz will fall in love with him, full stop. Or see staying in Prussia as a viable career option, if the future King hates him. So my guess is he’ll renew his efforts to get Dad and Grandpa Wartensleben’s support for an honorable dismissal so he can move to England and try his luck there. Which means he arrives just in time to meet longing-for-a-friend Fritz of Wales and befriend him instead of Lord Hervey doing the same. Meaning he’ll end up involved with Hannover crazy instead of Hohenzollern crazy, but at least the former isn’t deadly!

I see our ids continue to lead us in opposite directions. :)

You want to break it differently, whereas my urges to fix ALL the things have gotten so out of control that the escape-to-France no-absolute-power AU went from Fritz+Katte+Keith to Fritz+Katte+Keith+Wilhelmine+Suhm+Duhan (Duhan to keep Fritz from going crazy and breaking his cover while he waits for the others to trickle in one by one).

I will read yours and undoubtedly tell you what a great author you are, but I'm afraid I am (predictably and as predicted) DNWing Fritz being mean to Katte for an exchange. In return, have some fratricidal, filling-the-Fritz-vacuum Heinrich from me. :)

Oh, I never doubted which option you’d want, and I would write such a story for someone else, but consider the delicious angst and sacrifice if time travelling Fritz does this knowing it’s the only way to ensure Katte will live!

(Lord Hervey, appalled: Wait a minute. If Katte gets that worst of traitors, Fritz of Wales, does this mean that instead of going home to England, I end up in Berlin?!? I hate German politics! And frankly, while FW and G2 are on the same level of appalling in my opinion, Queen Caroline is a vastly preferable patroness to SD. Not to mention: what about my friendship with Lady Mary? Our love triangle with Algarotti?

Self: You keep complaining that Fritz of Wales was a tool with terrible taste and no brains in your memoirs. Let me assure you, Fritz of Prussia is the opposite. And you can have your love triangle with Algarotti, don’t worry about it. Just without Lady Mary as the third party - sorry, but I won’t condemn her to life in FW’s Prussia.)

Incidentally, if it’s the same method of time travel, i.le. Fritz will forget all about the other time line once he’s accomplished the key change, he’ll make a flight attempt anyway, just not with Katte as support. Don’t worry, this isn’t an AU where Peter Keith dies instead, because Peter is still at Wesel and thus able to get away in time. But maybe Fritz will try to persuade Hervey to take him along as diplomatic luggage, thus creating international incident because Hervey is not FW’s subject so if they’re caught, that personal combat challenge between FW and G2 is back on!

ETA: about Heinrich - as wonderful as my present was, and it was very wonderful, I am inm general somewhat invested in keeping him and Fritz alive at the same time so they can have their fanatastically screwed up relationship. Though you know, my big suspension of disbelief in “Grind” wasn’t Heinrich going for the kill under these very specific circumstances and then covering it up the way he does, but earlier, Heinrich trying to convince Fritz to take AW back by pointing out Fritz’ own mistakes post AU Leuthen. I mean, I know why it’s dramatically necessary that he does! I agree with the necessity! But given how he behaved towards Fritz during the war in rl, I needed, as mentioned to suspend some disbelief.

Edited 2021-01-02 20:40 (UTC)

thus creating international incident because Hervey is not FW’s subject so if they’re caught, that personal combat challenge between FW and G2 is back on!

Lol! Lol to the whole thing, which I will definitely read and comment on.

I am inm general somewhat invested in keeping him and Fritz alive at the same time so they can have their fanatastically screwed up relationship.

Noted. Part of the challenge here was trying to come up with something that you hadn't already done better on the screwed up Fritz+Heinrich front.

But given how he behaved towards Fritz during the war in rl, I needed, as mentioned to suspend some disbelief.

Oh, I had to suspend some disbelief as well, believe me. (And

cahn called out this line as well.) For a while, this fic was tagged "Deliberately OOC for dark AU purposes" for precisely this reason: I needed Heinrich to not exactly be our Heinrich, whom I have difficulty imagining giving me this exact plot.

Will keep them alive in future gifts to you, though!

and I would write such a story for someone else

By which you mean me, right?? :D (Okay, there are other stories I want before this one, but as I said, I'd definitely be fascinated by this. As you know, I also like things being broken differently!)

Hee, Heinrich & Fritz is definitely the most fascinating of relationships, and like Voltaire says in "Grind," it's no fun when one can't actually fight with the other because he's dead :P (Though of course "Grind" turned out to be much less Heinrich than one might think from a synopsis of the plot -- hopefully you enjoyed all the Amalie & Wilhelmine :D But it is also really really good to know what you would like in the future and I highly approve of knowing things like this :) ) And yes, as mildred says, I flagged that bit as well as something where I had to suspend disbelief :)

I loved all the Amalie & Wilhelmine, which was one of the prompts/requests I had which was afraid would never be fulfilled!

Re: future fic -more seriously, I try not to repeat myself, so no time travel in my immediate writing future, though once I have some temporal (ha!) distance and can approach the subject from a new angle, who knows?

Something not completely unrelated to write as a crackfic treated seriously: Frederician Christmas Carol, starring Fritz as Scrooge, of course. He even comes with a wary nephew (future FW2), and you can make the case for either Katte or Wilhelmine as the ghost of Christmas Past. The dialogue with either would have to contain "if I could change the past, I would" ideas.

Ghost of Christmas Future: Napoleon, who in 1806 will defeat Prussia and thus end the Fritz started legend of Prussian invincibility and what's left of Frederician Prussia for good. (Of course Prussia gets back to European superpower status once Napoleon is defeated, but it's a changed Prussia with no more Frederician enlightenment ideas and lots of religious traditionality instead, but otoh a reformed army which has taken all the changes since Fritz' time into account instead of just relying on his reputation.) Victorious Napoleon visiting Fritz' tomb - the one Fritz didn't want to lie in, next to Dad in a church! - is a sight sure to shock Fritz the way his tomb shocked Scrooge!

I can't decide on the Ghost of Christmas Present and who gets to be Bob Cratchit, though. Lucchesini for the later? (Fredersdorf is dead and Catt is out of favor.) Heinrich is telling me "don't you dare!" at my tentatively eying him as Bob Cratchit, abused but loyal employe, while EC is eagerly saying she'd like to be Bob Cratchit, but I can't see that, either...

ETA: Marley, though? Is going to be MT. "Maria Theresia was dead, to begin with", and instead of a doorknob, that portrait of hers which Fritz kept in his study is going to talk to him.

Edited 2021-01-03 08:58 (UTC)

Hee! But it would have to end differently from canon Christmas Carol, no? Or is this going to be an AU where Fritz is scared into being nicer for a while?

Like Wilhelmine, Fritz doesn't believe in ghosts or prophetic dreams, so...maybe the former?

It's been too long since I read this: how much does the ghost have to talk vs. just squire him around? Can one of his dogs be the ghost of Christmas present?

Victorious Napoleon visiting Fritz' tomb - the one Fritz didn't want to lie in, next to Dad in a church! - is a sight sure to shock Fritz the way his tomb shocked Scrooge!

OMG yes. I'm torn between whether this makes Fritz realize the moral of the story is to be *nicer* to his nephew, versus confirming him in this belief that his nephew is The Worst. I mean, realistically the latter, 100%, but we *are* talking A Christmas Carol remake here...

that portrait of hers which Fritz kept in his study is going to talk to him.

I like it!

how much does the ghost have to talk vs. just squire him around? Can one of his dogs be the ghost of Christmas present?

It's been eons since I've read it, too, but I just looked it up, and the ghost just has to identify himself as what he is. Which presumably the dog could do as Fritz has gotten good at reading his dogs. :) (Also he or rather she could wear a knitted cheery Christmas outfit!)

I'm torn between whether this makes Fritz realize the moral of the story is to be *nicer* to his nephew, versus confirming him in this belief that his nephew is The Worst. I mean, realistically the latter, 100%, but we *are* talking A Christmas Carol remake here...

Well, there's that. :) Btw, what would be the worse shock in your opinion - finding his tomb to be sans dogs and with Dad in a church, or seeing a victorious French guy who's stolen his thunder as the biggest event in 18th century military matters and beaten Prussia stroll around there? (True, he might be mollified by Napoleon's admiring tribute to him on the later count, but he wouldn't be able to hear that for the vision to work as intended.) (BTW, FW2 was already dead by then as well, so can't be blamed for the Prussian defeat.)

Fritz: But Heinrich's ex Kalckreuth was alive and one of the generals involved! Heinrich's terrible taste in boyfriends: proven once again.

the ghost just has to identify himself as what he is.

Okay, yes, that's what I was thinking.

Which presumably the dog could do as Fritz has gotten good at reading his dogs. :)

Plus it helps that this isn't the first ghost, so he's at least got some context.

(Also he or rather she could wear a knitted cheery Christmas outfit!)

OMG, a dog in an 18th century Christmas sweater equivalent, that's HILARIOUS. :D

Fritz: I care about keeping my dogs warm! See also the last order I ever gave.

Btw, what would be the worse shock in your opinion - finding his tomb to be sans dogs and with Dad in a church, or seeing a victorious French guy who's stolen his thunder as the biggest event in 18th century military matters and beaten Prussia stroll around there?

Ooof. Probably the second one? He would be unhappy about the burial thing, but he didn't believe in an immortal soul, and part of the whole plan for a simple burial was "I have lived like a philosopher and I wish to be buried like a philosopher." So I think he would recognize it was more symbolic than actually significant. Not that he wouldn't be pissed off!

On the other hand. No, wait, I changed my mind. Fritz would have total schadenfreude over Prussia's defeat after his death. This is the guy who cared far more about outshining his predecessors and successors than about preparing FW2 for the sake of Prussia.

...This whole thing is just going to confirm in Fritz's mind that FW2 was the worst, and clearly FW3 (who was king during and for the decade leading up to the great defeat) was also unworthy, and only Fritz was right and should be in control of all the things.

And yes, I think Fritz would find a way to give FW2 50% of the blame for the defeat, for laying the groundwork by undoing all of Fritz's hard work. This is Fritz we're talking about. Remember, he "could complain in some regards about [Katte], and I do not believe to have wronged him," and I have an unsourced quote from a fairly reliable secondary source in which Fritz calls Katte "maladroit", presumably for screwing up the escape attempt.

And even if he left FW2 out of it, it's going to be super easy to blame FW3 and reinforce Fritz's conviction that he's always right.

Honestly, I really have a hard time seeing any of these visions convince Fritz to do anything but double down on being an autocrat. Doubling down was Fritz's specialty. The only thing I can think of that *might* work as a wake-up call a la Ebenezer Scrooge is first reminding Fritz of his "Sterbekittel" days, and then showing him the Holocaust, Nazi propaganda in his name, and how he got cancelled after 1945, before gradually being partially rehabilitated. (You could make a case for the Crown Prince days being the past, the wars he led as King being the present (even if chronologically some decades ago), and the 20th century being the future.)

And I don't know if you would feel up to writing that story and handling it sensitively, but it would definitely be tricky. Not that me finding a story beyond my skills has ever stopped you, O Great Author of our fandom. :)

More than tricky, and if I do get around to writing the Frederician Christmas Carol, I'd probably go more the crack fic route, where Fritz' idea of being nicer to his nephew is to okay Wilhelmine Encke as maitresse en titre (with state pension), which did happen, after all . :), and his idea of being nicer to everyone else is letting Heinrich go to Paris. Or it's the anti Carol where he indeed doubles down.

However, on a more serious note I agree the shock of Nazi propaganda and the Holocaust would do it. If you want to have a look at how Nazi propaganda using Fritz looked like, check out this scene of a vile example in question if you can bear to. It's from Der Große König, aka the "keep fighting, Germans, never mind that setback in Russia!" propaganda film, directed by Veit Harlan, who was a very efficient director for melodrama who also had started a second line in propaganda movies. (Jud Süß was the other.) Harlan had good actors at his disposal (including Otto Gebühr, who was the most popular Fritz actor of his day and had been since Weimar Republic movies made him loved in the role), and the whole thing is effective propaganda because it does use just enough recognizable historical elements to work on people vaguely remembering their school lessons while at the same time utterly distorting them. The scene in question, which is set post-Kunersdorf, goes roughly thusly:

Heinrich: ...we're fighting other Germans here. Do you really want the HRE to go?
Fritz: The HRE is a bankrupt institution which has to go. I'm all for German unity, but the Habsburgs have lost their right to lead it by promoting "many blooded" people in their empire along with Germans. It's a shame we've got to fight other Germans in order that a future Empire led by Germans can be founded, but historical destiny must unfold. BTW, you're now an ex Generalissimus, I'm taking command back. Shame we don't get along better, Heinrich.
Heinrich: Is if you'd ever had fraternal feelings in your life. ("Wann hätten Sie je brüderliche Gefühle gehabt" isn't paraphrase but a direct quote.
Fritz: *burns last will*: If I'd died at Kunersdorf, this document would have made you regent, I'd have entrusted it all to you. Good thing I didn't.
Heinrich *looking at the burning document*: You'd known all about shoving a brother aside and destroying him.
Fritz: I am A Great Man Of History, and you're those elements in the army who dare to doubt Great Men And Their Strategies. Watch me chew out my other generals next.
Generals: Your Majesty, we're screwed and should sue for peace.
Fritz: *asks all the famous generals, from Seydlitz to Ziethen, and not one is ready to side with him on continuing the fight*
Fritz: You're all wrong, and I'm right. We'll fight on. History will prove me right.

The Worst Fanboys, Watching: Harry Truman is totally going to write that fanboy letter any time now...

'd probably go more the crack fic route, where Fritz' idea of being nicer to his nephew is to okay Wilhelmine Encke as maitresse en titre (with state pension), which did happen, after all . :), and his idea of being nicer to everyone else is letting Heinrich go to Paris.

Haha, okay, that I could see! That would be awesome: Fritz being "nice" canonically and not involving a 180 from his normal personality.

Was totally thinking of Otto Gebühr and Stalingrad, yes. Ugh. Fucking worst fanboys. I endorse your crackfic idea!

I read like 3 more pages in Horowski just now and got to the following description of FW2: vom berühmten Onkel Friedrich fast absichtlich zur Unfähigkeit erzogen, die den Vorgänger umso heller strahlen lassen würde, which I translate as "almost intentionally raised by his famous uncle Friedrich to be incapable, which would allow his predecessor to shine all the more brightly." (As always, correct me if necessary.)

Uh huh. I don't think Fritz is upset enough about Jena-Auerstedt to reverse his treatment of FW2.

Also, in pasting your summary of FW2 to Rheinsberg this morning, I was reminded that you'd commented on the difference in the English and German wiki treatments of FW2. Did you notice the banner on the English one reading, "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The specific problem is: tendentious bias towards militaristic evaluation of frederick william"?

Fritz: That's my tendentious bias, thank you very much. Can I interest you in my opinion on my no-good, money-wasting, flute-playing grandfather?

Re: Fritz, FW2, and A Christmas Carol

selenak - 2021-01-17 11:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: The Adventure of the Time-Traveling Valet - and Heinrich/Grind

cahn - 2021-01-20 05:54 (UTC) - Expand

I loved all the Amalie & Wilhelmine, which was one of the prompts/requests I had which was afraid would never be fulfilled!

<33 It wouldn't have been if I'd had to do a character study, which is why I bugged you into requesting AW, but once I had a plot, I was able to work them in without feeling like their characterization and interactions had to be worthy of a standalone story.

I'm glad it worked!

And yes, as mildred says, I flagged that bit as well as something where I had to suspend disbelief :)

As noted, I wrote myself into *several* corners with this fic. I didn't want to include this bit at all! The premise was supposed to be "dark!Heinrich kills Fritz" in something like our universe. As you know, I couldn't make this work, so I went for making him a slightly less dark (but still not our Heinrich) version with more pressure on him. But I wasn't thrilled with that.

Then I wanted to show his conflicting feelings about and loyalty to Fritz, because I know that's what you're there for, and I got as far as expressing my frustration to

cahn that my fic had made that basically impossible by making Fritz DEAD by the time Heinrich shows up, and she said, quite correctly, "You can't! It doesn't fit and we don't have time and Selena's already done that--it just has to be a dark AU." And she was right, but please know that I tried.

Several points during the writing, I had to argue with my internal editor that 1) you would understand the time crunch I was writing under, and 2) the strengths of the fic were just going to have to carry the story in spite of the weak points, and that there were enough strengths to carry the weaknesses I couldn't eliminate. I kept wanting to push back the beginning of the story to show Heinrich handling Fritz and how that was far less Heinrich's screw-up than Fritz's ability to twist anything around into criticism of himself when under enough stress (see also my opinion on the Albert condolence letter), but in lieu of enough time to develop that plot line, you got a "this Heinrich screwed up, moving on" in the first scene.

We'll just say Heinrich in this universe has less tolerance for Fritz's BS than canonically, and that leads to both the initial misjudgment and the willingness to authorize murder, and next time I'll try to write you the Heinrich of our universe. (The bug just bit me on this AU, and then I fenced myself into corner after corner in fleshing it out.)

I do think that with more time we could have finessed it a bit more so that it was a little more subtle of a miscalculation -- like, instead of Heinrich going on about how many mistakes Fritz made, just bringing up AW at the wrong time... but Fritz using that to double down on criticizing AW. But I know you (mildred) also wanted to show him as darker than our universe, so there were some competing things going on there.

"You can't! It doesn't fit and we don't have time and Selena's already done that--it just has to be a dark AU." And she was right, but please know that I tried.

I think you (selenak) can see how this got to be 30k! Mildred also debated putting in Louise to be nicer to Amalie:

as much as Louise would be perfect Watsonianly, I'm not sure a fic as tight as this can take another character. I'm not dead set against it

and I mercilessly squelched this idea too: I am dead set against Louise, I don't have the time to alpha-and-beta integrating her in :PP

But I don't even feel sorry, because a) neither of us DID have the time b) her idea to put in Amalie's Mental Health Day was brilliant and I'm really glad to have it :)

30k of awesomeness, and once again, I salute the both of you for this superb gift. And yes, Louise would have been one character too many. Good call!

With a little more time, we could have done SO many things! As it is, I'm just relieved (and very grateful to you) we finished in time at all.

I think you (selenak) can see how this got to be 30k!

Oh, lol, I'd forgotten Louise. Yeah, you can see how I'm a long-fic writer by nature.

her idea to put in Amalie's Mental Health Day was brilliant and I'm really glad to have it :)

I'm really glad it worked out! As you can see (selenak), it was added very late in the process (only the Voltaire scene was added later, I think), because the fic was just being brutal to Amalie, and she kept taking everything in stride like she was Hercule Poirot investigating the lives of strangers and didn't have stress-related illnesses or anything, when canonically she did, and that was without Fritz being assassinated in 1758 and Wilhelmine dying with Amalie at her bedside!

So I wanted a way to give the reader some sign that Amalie is struggling, and also give her some hurt/comfort (hence the Louise idea). The Tiergarten (poor former administrator Peter Keith is dead, alas) was perfect in allowing me to introduce her adopted waifs and give Frau Fredersdorf a plot-advancing cameo!

Which reminds me: I am almost SURE that you told us that Amalie had an interest in anatomy, but I couldn't find it when I went to research it. I kept her bird dissection lesson for the kids anyway, as it was too good not to include, even if I dreamed the part where her interest was canon. Is my memory correct?

Your memory is correct. It's from Lehndorff's diaries, a January 1758 entry, starting with "Vom exzentrischen Wesen der Prinzessin Amalie möchte ich an dieser Stelle noch etwas berichten".

Perfect, thank you! I felt that I couldn't possibly have made that up out of whole cloth, but I could have gotten something confused.

Anyway, I really enjoyed combining the two and having her remember the time she impromptu dissected a bird for the kids. I like to think for at least some of the kids she would have been the Cool Aunt. :)

And now you know we spent quite a lot of time on Heinrich becoming Fritz, so there was no way I wasn't going to notice that and remark on it :D

Yep, exactly. As soon as I saw that, I knew you were going to pick up on it too, after all that time betaing/co-authoring.

Mildred said yes, but otoh she wouldn't mind reading stories where he does, and/or the time wars between Fritz and Heinrich.

Time wars between Fritz and Heinrich...???? !!!! this is a thing I can have? YES PLEASE where do I sign up????

Lol, your reaction is much closer to my reaction than the sedate summary by Selena. My actual reaction:

Selena: also, one does not want Frederick the Great to find out about time travel.

Me: The part of me that has rational political beliefs: No, of course not!

The part of me that is fannish: OMG YES WE DO WE EXTREMELY DO BRING ME MY POPCORN WOULD READ ABOUT THIS ALL DAY LONG GIMME!!! :D :D :D

Would also read the time wars between Heinrich and Fritz!

And yes, Fritz+MT time wars too! Would read!

although I am going to bet my hat (except that I had to eat it when it turned out mildred was the author of Corporate AU)

ROTFL!

Well, you may keep your replacement hat, because my reaction to *this* one was:

ONE of these two options you are allowed to gift me. :P

I have a *lot* of questions and thoughts and feelings and opinions about this, predictably, but having made my opinions on the first two options clear, and having announced my partial salon hiatus, I'm afraid I'm going to go read Horowski instead. Curse my sleep woes!

ask for Fredersdorf to be transfered to Potsdam if he can engineer that without making Dad suspicious

Fredersdorf is tall, problem solved. :P

re: Fredersdorf, zomg, you're right. Incidentally, I only have one more episode to go on a six part 1980s GDR miniseries which in its last two episodes actually features Fritz and Fredersdorf, and was shot on location so I'll try to do screencaps of them in Sanssouci. But! The actor playing Fredersdorf is smaller than the actor who plays Fritz, and that's just wrong! (Otoh, the dogs are actual Italian greyhounds the right size, not fearsome beasts of another race.)

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