Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 22 (or: Yuletide 2020 edition)

[cahn]

ETA: Whoops, I missed my cue -- this might as well be the next discussion post, I guess! :)

This is about the fic I didn't author (I have another reveals post for the fics I did author).

So my goal this Yuletide was NOT to write any historical fandom (because hard!) and just enjoy the excellent stuff that other people wrote. And... that sort of happened? I didn't end up authoring anything history-intensive? Buuuuut I ended up spending a lot more time than I did on any of my own fics working with mildred_of_midgard on her fic, which she was worried about being able to pull off because she had had this completely insane idea to write a long casefic about Frederick the Great that every time I turned around had another twist put in :P :) She supplied me with what we called a "rough opal in matrix" bus pass casefic, and I cut away the matrix that remained and in some cases carved the opal -- that is to say, writing additional text for some of the scenes, what we liked to call "putting in feels," and in at least two cases entirely rewriting and/or restructuring the scene she'd written. She didn't always keep what I wrote (which we'd agreed upon in the beginning), but when she did (which was most of the time :) ) she then went in and rewrote/restructured what I put in to wordsmith (some of the words I gave her were really rough) and match her style, adding even more scenes -- that is, polishing it up and adding some gold and diamonds -- and voila, a beautiful pendant, I mean, story :)

I'm really proud of it and also it was really fun and also what I could handle this year, especially because mildred did all the parts I thought were hard and also wrote all the parts involving actual history or subtle AU before I was brought in so I didn't actually have to know historical stuff (though I guess I will never forget the battle of Leuthen now), and took full responsibility for how the whole thing turned out, so all I had to do was be like "Here, I'll write some rough feels for you for this scene!" The funny part was that I would often then write a paragraph justifying why I *had* to write the scene the way I did, and more likely than not mildred would be like, "yeah, I was sure you would do that, of course it should be written like that." (The most glaring example of this was where I inserted the Letter of Doom at the climax. I was worried there was some reason she didn't want it there, but she said, no, she just didn't have time to put it in herself and was just trusting me to do that :) ) She started jokingly calling me her "other self," to which I replied that it was with 1000% less angst and frustration -- as Frederick the Great's brother was his "other self" (which actually comes up in the fic) that he could trust to do all kinds of competent things, but they had a relationship that was, um, fraught? radioactive? Whereas this was just fun :)

Mildred did so much more than I did (we estimated a 90%/10% word ratio, not even counting the part where she wordsmithed a lot of my text) that I felt very uncomfortable being listed as a co-author, but hey, ~3000 words is a respectable Yuletide fic length :)

Yet They Grind Exceedingly Small (30384 words) by mildred_of_midgard
Chapters: 5/5
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, Historical RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Major Character Death
Relationships: Anna Amalie von Preußen & Wilhelmine von Preußen, Anna Amalie von Preußen & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen, Wilhelmine von Preußen & Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia
Characters: Anna Amalie von Preußen (1723-1787), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758), Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802), Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth (1732-1780), Wilhelmine von Hesse-Kassel (1726-1808), August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Alcmene 1 | Frederick the Great's Italian Greyhound, Voltaire (Writer), Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Dysfunctional Family, Suicide, Alternate Universe - Dark, Siblings, Canon-Typical Violence, Mystery, Tide of History Challenge
Summary:

January 1758. Prince William is dead, some say of a broken heart. Frederick wants to absolve himself of blame for William's death. Henry schemes to end the Third Silesian War on his terms. Amalie and Wilhelmine team up to find out what really happened to their brother. Alcmene just wants to be told she's a good dog.

Comments

[mildred_of_midgard]

So, a little backstory here, if you want to imagine what it's like to be a generous person bailing me out of my own insane idea and to be getting emails from me, imagine getting an email from me that goes like this:

"Okay, I just shared a 20,000 word Google doc with you. It has all the plot but not enough feelings and some very thinly-sketched in scenes. You like shiny things, so here's an analogy. What I want to give Selena for Yuletide is this. What I've sent you is this. We have three weeks. Go!"

The idea of this analogy was twofold.

1) To establish an MO for collaborating. So, "There are parts of the fic that are inherent to the fic and that I'm attached to and that I want to stay. If you want to change or delete them, let's discuss first. That's the opal. Then there's the part where I just wrote some words so that it would read like a fic. That's the matrix. Please get rid of these parts at will (in suggestion mode, but you don't have to discuss them first)."

2) To assuage my self-consciousness about sending something this incomplete. Like, "I know these words are clumsy! I know these people aren't robots and should have feelings! If I had more time, I would fix a million things before letting a beta see it. But you're an alpha-and-beta, so please just don't judge me by thinking that I think these are great words that I am proud of. It's just there to convey the information you need to know in order for you to be able to make your contributions."

And then she made amaaaazing contributions, everyone!

Like the Mina and Heinrich scene. The purpose there is introduce Chekov's snuffbox (my idea) and to have Heinrich give himself away by being a terrible husband (cahn's idea).

Step 1: I wrote the core of the fight, where Mina says how much she misses AW and Fritz, and Heinrich says, "Oh, yeah? If you liked Fritz so much..." and Chekov's snuffbox is revealed. Then Mina comes back later and the Glasow/Heinrich connection is revealed (with ominous words that make sense in context).

Step 2: Cahn supplied a whole beginning to the scene, where Mina is trying to come to terms with Fritz's death on top of AW's, missing AW as a person, deciding to comfort Heinrich, going to Heinrich, saying all the wrong things, and getting rejected. She also introduced Heinrich's violin and other little details, etc.

Step 3: I bulk delete cahn's words and replace them with words of my own in which Mina is trying to come to terms with Fritz's death on top of AW's, missing AW as a person, deciding to comfort Heinrich, etc. I also added some things, like her maternal feelings toward FW2 (because I wanted to link that to AW leaving her the kids, which I wanted to introduce because it makes Heinrich's anger more understandable in context, especially since I couldn't provide the whole backstory of forced marriage, etc.) I inserted bits and pieces of cahn's phrasing into what I was writing, but most of that scene is mine--but you can see how much structure was hers.

Step 4: Profit!

*Knowing* that Mina and Heinrich should not be talking heads doing nothing but advancing the plot, and Mina should be grieving AW, etc., because duh, and *actually having* text, however rough, to work with, are radically different in terms of my ability to knock out a scene by the deadline. So cahn's contributions are *massive* and far beyond the total word count of which of her words remained in the final draft.

The funny part was that I would often then write a paragraph justifying why I *had* to write the scene the way I did, and more likely than not mildred would be like, "yeah, I was sure you would do that, of course it should be written like that." (The most glaring example of this was where I inserted the Letter of Doom at the climax. I was worried there was some reason she didn't want it there, but she said, no, she just didn't have time to put it in herself and was just trusting me to do that :) )

This was so funny, because it happened over and over again! The fact that I had my other self collaborating on this and didn't have to spell out everything I wanted was why we got this done in 2 weeks and had the last week free to hack away at the ending and to write treats.

Mildred did so much more than I did (we estimated a 90%/10% word ratio, not even counting the part where she wordsmithed a lot of my text) that I felt very uncomfortable being listed as a co-author

The funny part is that I've been trying to pressure you into accepting co-authorship credit for weeks because I'm very uncomfortable being listed as sole author. :D I did my best to credit you in the author's notes.

(we estimated a 90%/10% word ratio, not even counting the part where she wordsmithed a lot of my text)

NOT COUNTING the part where you were responsible for the STRUCTURE of scenes I bulk-deleted and regenerated or heavily rewrote in place, like Mina and all the opera parts. :P Not counting the part where after I sent you a 20k draft so rough I hadn't even reread it, I actually let you go over each scene before I revisited it. Not counting the part where, near the end, I was like, "Welp, not working on my fic today, because I'm just waiting on cahn to write the opera parts, and that's the only major thing left."

:D :D

This was an AMAZING experience, even better than last year (probably because my sleep, bad as it was, was a million times better than a year ago), and I can't thank you enough, other self.

Whereas this was just fun :)

It was SO much fun. And also very efficient when you can just trust your other self. <3

especially because mildred did all the parts I thought were hard

As with last year, I think I did all the easy parts! This is why we have such great collaborations. Though really, I can see why writing emotional reactions to someone else's plot developments is easier than writing the plot developments they have in mind, so I think we ended up with a really good division of labor here.

Collaboration

[cahn]

This was an AMAZING experience, even better than last year (probably because my sleep, bad as it was, was a million times better than a year ago), and I can't thank you enough, other self.

I also enjoyed it more than last year! I think on my end because the division of labor really worked for me, not least in terms of how much time and the specific types of brainpower I had available this year (for example, major self-editing/rewriting, which I always find draining if rewarding, was something I was just not in the mindset for this Yuletide, so the part where I could just write you stuff and have you edit/rewrite it was really nice for me), but also:

Though really, I can see why writing emotional reactions to someone else's plot developments is easier than writing the plot developments they have in mind, so I think we ended up with a really good division of labor here.

Part of it was the plot, yeah -- even though you'd supplied me with a detailed outline, it was the sort where I could tell you had even more detailed ideas in mind -- but even more, with you the plot and the history are intertwined so much, and I just don't have the minutiae (or, often, the bulk*) history at my fingertips like you and selenak. But thanks to both of you (principally selenak, of course), I have the characterization at my fingertips, and also, like you say, because you'd supplied me with all the plot text, it was super easy to write emotional reactions around whatever was going on in the plot.

Whereas you may remember that when I was writing "Counterpoint" (which you supplied the plot for) or "Survived" (which Wilhelmine supplied the plot for) every two paragraphs or so I'd run into where I was inadvertently writing some sort of anachronism, or hanging a plot point on something that wasn't historically accurate. I mean, I'm very proud of those fics, but I feel like they were very... inefficient?... to write because I kept having to run things by you and then change them. Whereas the way "Grind" was set up was the most efficient in both directions! :D

I must confess (well, I've told you this before) that I also really liked being able to write/structure the emotional parts to exactly fit my id :) IDK how you felt about that, since I know our ids aren't always kept in the same place -- apparently it didn't bother you too much :) So that was a really nice present for me <3

* At times I did what I told mildred was a great job as a beta reader who knew nothing about the fandom, despite having been in it for more than a year *facepalm* Which was useful! Since she wanted it to be accessible to someone who wasn't in the fandom! But still sort of embarrassing.

Re: Collaboration

[mildred_of_midgard]

every two paragraphs or so I'd run into where I was inadvertently writing some sort of anachronism, or hanging a plot point on something that wasn't historically accurate.

I also made mistakes, note! But yes, I can see why the other approach was more efficient and enjoyable for both of us.

Whereas the way "Grind" was set up was the most efficient in both directions! :D

:D As you may have seen, I wrote a post on how "plot first, feels later" may actually be the most efficient way for me to write, and I discovered that only because of your offer to help, so if I'm right, there may be more meaty fic from me in the future. (Not this month, though.)

IDK how you felt about that, since I know our ids aren't always kept in the same place -- apparently it didn't bother you too much :)

Well, like we discussed, when writing gifts, I don't mind sticking in things that I think or know will appeal to the other person if I'm neutral on them. And this was a gift for both of you. <3 So putting in a curtsy for you, for example, was fine. If I felt strongly about something, I pushed back, which is why the dream didn't make it in. (I agree that we could have compromised on something if we'd had more than 24 to go, lol.)

I had a fantastic time, and I'm glad the division of labor worked for you as well. (Me: but writing the plot + history first is the easy part! It practically writes itself! Which is how you got a completely plotted 20k draft 2-3 days after I was wibbling about whether I was going to be able to finish in time.)

Now that we know this works, there may be other possible collaboration opportunities, though perhaps next time I will exercise better judgment about sleep + impending deadline + complexity of fic and not need you. (Cut out any one of those factors and I could have done it myself! But...all three were outside of my control. :P)