Aahhh, okay, that makes sense. I did see "viehische Vermischung" and wished the pdf were formatted so as to allow me to run that phrase through Google Translate on my phone like I do with the books I scan, but yes, of course it means bestiality.
I blame Horowski! He says it means male/male sex! Or at least tell me if you can interpret this passage as having a bestiality meaning, because it seems like a real stretch to me.
Für die Zeitgenossen war schon männliche Homosexualität keineswegs etwas klar Definiertes oder gar wie heute eine Identität, obwohl auf die vage mit ‹Sodomie› bezeichneten Aktivitäten nach wie vor die Todesstrafe durch Verbrennen stand. Selbst wenn Monsieur sonst in seinem ganzen Leben keine einzige gute Tat getan hätte, muss man ihm dafür Respekt zollen , dass er allein schon durch seine Existenz als unübersehbar homosexueller Königsbruder mindestens im Großraum Paris eine Durchsetzung dieses Gesetzes unmöglich machte – jede Verfolgung von Homosexuellen hätte dort sofort auch seine umfangreiche Entourage mitbetroffen und war daher in dieser hierarchischen Gesellschaft einfach unmöglich. In Preußen schaffte später Friedrich II. die Todesstrafe für «Sodomie» ab, was er damit begründete, dass Jugendliche ja gerne bei öffentlichen Hinrichtungen zuschauten ; da sie natürlich auch nach dem jeweiligen Grund fragten, brächte man sie so auf unanständige Ideen. Für lesbische Beziehungen gab es nicht einmal ein Wort.
For contemporaries, male homosexuality was by no means something clearly defined or, as it is today, an identity, although the activities vaguely labeled 'sodomy' were still subject to the death penalty by burning. Even if Monsieur would not have done a single good deed in his entire life, he must be respected for the fact that his very existence as an unmistakably homosexual brother of the king made it impossible to enforce this law, at least in the greater Paris area - any persecution of homosexuals there would immediately have affected his extensive entourage and was therefore simply impossible in this hierarchical society. Later in Prussia, Friedrich II. abolished the death penalty for "sodomy", which he justified with the fact that young people liked to watch public executions; since they naturally also asked for the respective reason, that would give them indecent ideas. For lesbian relationships, there was not even a word.
But yeah, from the cabinet order, you're right, it does look like we're talking bestiality here, and that does explain why he's criticized for not abolishing the death penalty for homosexual acts. And no, I don't think I've seen anyone say it was actually enforced; I brought the lack of enforcement up back in the earliest days of the salon when I mentioned that he'd left the death penalty on the books.
(I might add I was immediately skeptical that it's impossible to persecute the lower classes of Paris for something that the upper classes are doing, but then I promptly got distracted by the next sentence about Fritz.)
Oh, cahn, "Monsieur" is the gay Philippe, Duc d'Orleans. This passage is introduced by discussing the way his first wife (not Liselotte) had a well-documented lesbian relationship.
I seem remember a letter in his old age where he’s proud to having had to sign only a handful of death penalties in his entire reign
Blanning cites one to Heinrich in 1781 in which Fritz claims that there are no more than 12 death sentences annually in an average year, which matches the statistics Blanning gives. For the years 1775-1778, Blanning gives the following number of death sentences for the following crimes (you can see infanticide is up there):
Re: Sodomy
I blame Horowski! He says it means male/male sex! Or at least tell me if you can interpret this passage as having a bestiality meaning, because it seems like a real stretch to me.
Für die Zeitgenossen war schon männliche Homosexualität keineswegs etwas klar Definiertes oder gar wie heute eine Identität, obwohl auf die vage mit ‹Sodomie› bezeichneten Aktivitäten nach wie vor die Todesstrafe durch Verbrennen stand. Selbst wenn Monsieur sonst in seinem ganzen Leben keine einzige gute Tat getan hätte, muss man ihm dafür Respekt zollen , dass er allein schon durch seine Existenz als unübersehbar homosexueller Königsbruder mindestens im Großraum Paris eine Durchsetzung dieses Gesetzes unmöglich machte – jede Verfolgung von Homosexuellen hätte dort sofort auch seine umfangreiche Entourage mitbetroffen und war daher in dieser hierarchischen Gesellschaft einfach unmöglich. In Preußen schaffte später Friedrich II. die Todesstrafe für «Sodomie» ab, was er damit begründete, dass Jugendliche ja gerne bei öffentlichen Hinrichtungen zuschauten ; da sie natürlich auch nach dem jeweiligen Grund fragten, brächte man sie so auf unanständige Ideen. Für lesbische Beziehungen gab es nicht einmal ein Wort.
For contemporaries, male homosexuality was by no means something clearly defined or, as it is today, an identity, although the activities vaguely labeled 'sodomy' were still subject to the death penalty by burning. Even if Monsieur would not have done a single good deed in his entire life, he must be respected for the fact that his very existence as an unmistakably homosexual brother of the king made it impossible to enforce this law, at least in the greater Paris area - any persecution of homosexuals there would immediately have affected his extensive entourage and was therefore simply impossible in this hierarchical society. Later in Prussia, Friedrich II. abolished the death penalty for "sodomy", which he justified with the fact that young people liked to watch public executions; since they naturally also asked for the respective reason, that would give them indecent ideas. For lesbian relationships, there was not even a word.
But yeah, from the cabinet order, you're right, it does look like we're talking bestiality here, and that does explain why he's criticized for not abolishing the death penalty for homosexual acts. And no, I don't think I've seen anyone say it was actually enforced; I brought the lack of enforcement up back in the earliest days of the salon when I mentioned that he'd left the death penalty on the books.
(I might add I was immediately skeptical that it's impossible to persecute the lower classes of Paris for something that the upper classes are doing, but then I promptly got distracted by the next sentence about Fritz.)
Oh,
I seem remember a letter in his old age where he’s proud to having had to sign only a handful of death penalties in his entire reign
Blanning cites one to Heinrich in 1781 in which Fritz claims that there are no more than 12 death sentences annually in an average year, which matches the statistics Blanning gives. For the years 1775-1778, Blanning gives the following number of death sentences for the following crimes (you can see infanticide is up there):
Murder 12
Concocting poison 4
Highway robbery 2
Infanticide 18
Arson 8
Soliciting desertion 2
Total 46
In his entire reign, Fritz says he's only signed one death penalty in Silesia, because only one man deserved it.