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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 20
Yuletide signups so far:
3 requests for Frederician RPF, 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 3 offers !! :D :D
(I am so curious as to who the third person is!)
3 requests for Frederician RPF, 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 3 offers !! :D :D
(I am so curious as to who the third person is!)
Re: Boswell in Prussia: Generalities & George Keith, Lord Marischal
Nice! And appropriate, now that you're in a salon. :)
The editors also provide extensive footnotes on everyone mentioned, for which they quote out of Lehndorff's diaries (not just volume 1 but the other volumes as well!) a lot.
Also nice!
(Sadly, if the two diarists met, neither of them wrote it down. Boswell did meet EC, though.)
What date did he meet EC, does he say? We could try cross-checking to see what Lehndorff was doing that day. (Still bitter about volume 3 of Lady Mary, covering the Wilhelmine-in-Italy period. One day! Or maybe Stabi has it?)
And they're good with thoroughness, so for example the time when Boswell hears the "Fritz: lots of sex with the ladies as a young men, now impotent as a result!" gossip, there's a footnote saying essentially: Frederick's sexuality: It's complicated, and source referencing various contradictory theories.
That's better than a lot of sources!
there are very valuable details about travelling through the German states (and Switzerland) - the editors are good on this, too, pointing out that Boswell rents a coach when travelling with George Keith , Lord Marischal, but when travelling on his lonesome travels with the journaliere which is way cheaper and how non-nobles got along.
I cannot find this in a quick google (I'm only getting "day laborer" results)--are there more details? I'm interested in this for fic research purposes: my characters are having to travel from London to Edinburgh to Lisbon to Madrid to Paris to Metz to Masevaux while being exiled nobles on a budget and attempting to preserve their anonymity because of the death sentence, so I at least want to know what their travel options are. Private coach is probably going to be the most plot-convenient, and I can handwave the cost, but I'd like to know what alternatives they have.
(He also promoted himself to "Baron von Boswell" in order to score all these invites, though not when gatecrashing chez Rousseau and Voltaire.)
Lol, I'd read that but forgotten it. Ha!
whom Boswell brings to life in a way the various Fritz biographies I've read don't
I've noticed (that he seems very flat in Fritz bios).
He's also not alone but in the company of his ward, a Turkish woman named Emetulla (Emet Ulla, Marie Emeté) de Froment...(She wasn't the only Turk whom George Keith had inherited from James Keith: there was also one Ibrahim, whom Boswell meets later ("he was to be a painter, but became a hypochondriack & has a pension from My Lord" and "Old Stepan the Calmuc"
Ah, okay. This is some additional context for Blanning's
the bachelor was attended by an exotic entourage known as “the menagerie,” comprising a Tibetan, a Kalmuck and a Moor.
I was not particularly impressed with the way the people of color were given a single sentence comparing them to animals. Contemporaries used that term, sure. In circa 2016, I expect a little more dignity for human beings. Thank you, Boswell and/or Boswell's editors.
He has married an actress, whom he keeps in great subjection. He has made her learn Greek, & I don't know how many things, merely to make her of use to him in his studies.
I hope not! I agree that many learned women had no better outlet for their education than to help their husbands (and not get credit for doing varying amounts of the work), but let's hope she actually enjoyed learning! (Also, Greek is awesome and my all-time favorite language, so I extra hope she enjoyed it. ;))
Boswell, you would not have been a good envoy. (And for different reasons as to why Lehndorff would not have been.) Cultural attaché, yes.
Yes, this. Also, in general, Boswell is an entertaining character for different reasons than Lehndorff, but I see what you mean about him and Lehndorff sharing a basic curiosity about the world around them that makes for interesting reading.
may you not only conquer Portugal, but Africa; and so triumph over the Moors.
Tangentially, that reminds me that I've been meaning to say that Wikipedia tells me that one person in our fandom who did make it to Africa is Prussian Count Rothenburg, in 1732, with the Spanish army.
Re: Boswell in Prussia: Generalities & George Keith, Lord Marischal
July 15, and we do have the correspondonding Lehndorff entry, which is even referenced in the footnotes. Not least because unbeknowest to Boswell, poor EC was in a dreadful state of anxiety. See, on July 17, the official engagement party for future FW2 and Elisabeth the future MESSALINA was scheduled to happen, and as of two days before, Fritz still hadn't told her whether or not she was invited/supposed to come. (Bear in mind that future FW2 is her sister's son, and Elisabeth is her brother's daughter.) Only late in the afternoon did EC finally get the okay to come to her nephew and niece's engagement party. So while Lehndorff was actually present on that occasion, he was busy sending messages back and thro to the King's household to figure out whether or not the Queen could be at the party, and thus probably did not take particular notice of Mitchell presenting a fellow Scot.
(Heinrich wasn't invited, either, due to having pissed off Fritz with the non-salute. Everyone else - Amalie, Ferdinand & wife, AW's other kids, of course, the remaining Schwedt relations, and all of the surviving Brunswick clan - had been invited eons ago.)
This was also a few days after Fritz had ordered six court ladies, including Lehndorff's Frau von Katte, to show up at Sanssouci for a reception/ball and had them transported back to Berlin in the early morning rather than either have his wife there or let them stay the night.
Travelling in the year 1764 (i.e. bear this in mind - maybe conditions were even worse in 1730/1731, or maybe they were better, what with no recent war) - here I quote from the preface (!):
Private carriages for several passengers could be hired by the well-to-do, as Boswell did for Lord Marischal and his group. Large stage coaches were run by the princes of Thurn and Taxis who had a monopoly protected by the Holy Roman emperors. These Boswell must have taken for longer stretches along major roads. Less well known are the regional coaches he used in Prussia and in Hessen once he travelled on his own. HIs descripton of the cheap public conveyance called the "journalière", which operated between Berlin and Potsdam, emphasizes its primitive construction. NO more than an open cart made of wodden planks placed over wheels, it left its passengers ata the mercy of the elements, even of tree branches at eye level.
Worse than this open Postwagen were the vehicles enclosed with leather covers that let in little air and blocked the view to the outside. After Boswell banged his head against the rion rods on the roof of one of these "monstrous machines" which were part of the local "Hessen-Post", he preferred the open conveyances. But gentlemen did not use such vehicles, open or closed. Boswell carefully changed to the more respectable Extra-Post, reserved for one or two passengers, to enter Brunswick "as a gentleman" on his return visit in August. Yet the Extra-Post, more costly than the local coaches, brought new problems with it, since the wheels had to be greased at frequent intervals - an activity reported as "Smear-Gelt" (German: Schmiergeld) in Boswell's expense account. And the Extra-Post could be slower when fresh horses were not available, as Boswell was chargrined to find on his unexpectedly prolonged trip from Dresden to Gotha.
The journal, furthermore, vividly shows the deplorable state of the roads, which were usually rough and bumpy. Wrapping himself up in his greatcoat against the cold, Boswell feared that he would be helpless if the coach overturned. When such an accident actually happened, on the way to Kassel, he and the other passengers were left in a ditch, in the dark, and in the rain. Nor was there much choice of routes even between major places. Boswell, having travelled from Leipzig to Dresden, had to return to Leipzig before he could take the main route south to Gotha ,Mannheim and Karlsruhe. A fw days later, in Langensalza, the roads 'overflowed' with liquid mud. Prhaps that was why Boswell accepted an invitation in Langensalza to ride in a coach for even a short distance. Possibly for the same reason, he engaged a sedan chair in Kassel.
Safety in the town and city streets were also a concern. IN Bruswick, no one was allowed on the street ata night without a light, as Boswell discovered when he came close to being arrested (undismayed, he considered the experience "an adventure"). In Leipzig, the famous bridge with its elaborate one-way system for pedestrians and vehicles inspired him to write down the regulations for the flow of traffic. And lodgings for travellers varied considerably in quality. They could be pleasantly luxurious, as they were for Boswell in Berlin, but inns en route were often as uncomfortable as the vehicles. On the way to Frankfurt, where he had his worst experience, he lodged in a room with fourteen other adults and three children, though being acknowledged as "Herr Baron von Boswell", he was given the one available bed. On several occasions, seeking better air, Boswell chose to sleep on a bare floor or on straw - even i a stable in spite of the possible danger of being trampled by the horses. Fortunately, he had the courage and resilience required of travellers, especially in the autumn and winter months.
I'll say. For another contemporary source of travelling, might I suggest Lady Mary's Embassy Letters? She does cross the HRE and France en route to Turkey, twice, in 1717 and 1718, which is just a little more than a decade before your planned story. Of course, as a lady and an English envoy's wife she travels in private coach throughout, and also brings with her her own sheets and bed to use in the inns to keep the flees etc. at bare minimum. But she does stay in inns; only if she and her husband stay anywhere longer, as for example in Vienna, do they rent a house, and in Hannover they are staying with friends.
Both Boswell and Boswell's editor provide as much detail on the poc he meets as on the white folks, thankfully. And he doesn't use the term "menagerie" for George Keith's household at all.
Madame d'Argens: both the footnote and the Trier website disagree with her being "forced" to learn; see also Casanova's quite different take on D'Argens and wife a year years later when he meets them in France. Given that Lord Marischal is Boswell's source for this, I suspect Friend of Fritz George Keith was indulging in a very Fritzian take and exaggaration for satiric purposes.
Re: Boswell in Prussia: Generalities & George Keith, Lord Marischal
Makes sense. Thanks for the cross-reference!
This was also a few days after Fritz had ordered six court ladies, including Lehndorff's Frau von Katte, to show up at Sanssouci for a reception/ball and had them transported back to Berlin in the early morning rather than either have his wife there or let them stay the night.
FRITZ. I will excuse you not wanting to see your wife, but you need to be organized!
Travelling in the year 1764 (i.e. bear this in mind - maybe conditions were even worse in 1730/1731, or maybe they were better, what with no recent war)
Yeah, I was thinking could go either way, but in a lot of places, probably worse because of the war.
- here I quote from the preface (!):
Only you could make me laugh so much with a single exclamation mark. A hit, a palpable hit!
For another contemporary source of travelling, might I suggest Lady Mary's Embassy Letters?
Yep, fic research is definitely a major reason she's on my list.
Both Boswell and Boswell's editor provide as much detail on the poc he meets as on the white folks, thankfully. And he doesn't use the term "menagerie" for George Keith's household at all.
Good for them!
Oh, btw, some good fairy went through
Re: Boswell in Prussia: Generalities & George Keith, Lord Marischal
Re: Boswell in Prussia: Generalities & George Keith, Lord Marischal
Speaking of which, since I can't edit your posts, I'll leave it to you to add the latest findings to the existing Glasow post.