cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

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frederick the great

Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

Yuletide nominations:

18th Century CE Federician RPF
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria
Voltaire
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff
Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Anna Amalie von Preußen | Anna Amalia of Prussia (1723-1787)
Catherine II of Russia
Hans Hermann von Katte
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf
August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758)

Circle of Voltaire RPF
Emilie du Chatelet
Jeanne Antoinette Poisson (Madame de Pompadour)
John Hervey (1696-1743)
Marie Louise Mignot Denis
Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
Pierre Louis Moreau de Maupertuis
Armand de Vignerot du Plessis de Richelieu (1696-1788)
Francesco Algarotti

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When I was looking up MacDonogh's quote about FW's blood-lust being assuaged, I happened upon the Hille "You think his wants to be a musician, but it's worse than that, he wants to be a poet!" quote, and it went like this:

You think his passion is music, I wish to God it were so! But he has a stronger inclination: he wants to write verse and become a poet. While he hasn’t a clue whether his ancestors won Magdeburg in a game of cards or whatever, he can count out Aristotle’s poetic rules on his fingers, and for the last two days he has been torturing himself to render into French some German verses that the idiot Wilke* has given him.

And Wilke is footnoted as a civil servant.

The citation for this letter is Volz, who footnotes Wilke as "Geheimer Kriegs- und Domänenrat." Which, as I recall, is the way Stratemann presents the author of the poem. Now, previously, Hille, the director of the Kriegs- und Domänenrat, was the only person we (or I) knew to be affiliated with that, but--I checked Stratemann more closely.

The footnote to the poem says to see page 198.

Page 198 says,

Wie Se. Königl. Hoheit zum ersten mahl in die dasige Cammer kommen, hat der 2. Secretarius, als ein fertiger Poet, Dieselbe mit einigen Versen bewillkommnet, worauf der Prinz auf gleiche Weise gar kurz geantwortet hat.

"2. Secretarius" I think *can't* be Hille, as he's the director. I think it must be Wilke, who's the "accomplished poet," and this is the poem Fritz was "torturing himself to render into French" given to him by "that idiot Wilke." And Stratemann writes that the poem is from the Kriegs- und Domänenrat (or apparently Kriegs und Dom. Cammer-Canzley, which, same diff) because it was formally presented to Fritz by the committee upon his first meeting attendance.

This makes more sense of Hille!

There's more, which I will report later as the weak flesh allows, but for now, I think we've identified our author.

Okay, then Geheimer Kriegs- und Domänenrat Wilke is our (hobby)poet giving the future author of De La Literature Allemande a welome poem. :) Seriously though, it was a sweet gesture, and Fritz evidently appreciated if he both tried to compose a French version and wrote a brief German reply. I’m also reminded of the Frankfurt an der Oder students organizing a musical presentation for Fritz (whether or not Fredersdorf was involved). What all this tells me is that Fritz loving music and poetry must have been known across the kingdom - since neither Wilke nor the students were court insiders -, and also that they evidently wanted to show their solidarity/ make his life a bit better despite living in a kingdom governed by absolute monarch FW. Kudos, I say.

Hard agree. This is why I said that Fritz experienced a lot of kindness when he was young, he just (almost) never experienced consistent kindness coupled with real power. He got intermittent interventions: his mother, Mosel (maybe), the Münchows, etc., but they were all severely limited.

But the random acts of kindness were definitely responsible for him not turning out worse than he did, so kudos to everyone who did their best in a sucky situation.

There's more, which I will report later

Royal Detective reporting for duty!

So, Volz gives the complete (afaict) letter from Hille to Grumbkow, and immediately after the whole "idiot Wilkes" passage, Hille continues:

Bis zur Erschlaffung sage ich ihm die Verse aus Molieres „Misanthrope“ über Oronte her. Er sagt sie seien wundervoll, und läßt sich nicht abbringen. Der Teufel hole seinen verwünschten Lehrer, der weiter nichts verstand, als ihm dergleichen seichtes Zeug in den Kopf zu setzen.

I [Hille] recited him the verses on Oronte from Molière's "Misanthrope" until I was exhausted. He said they were wonderful, and nothing could convince him otherwise. The devil take his cursed tutor [Duhan], who didn't know any better than to put this kind of shallow stuff into his head. [Translation mine; German speakers feel free to correct.]

The last sentence I'd seen quoted, but not the first two. And first I was surprised that Hille was trying to talk Fritz out of poetry by reading him Molière.

So I went and researched this play a bit, and wooooow, this is so much better than I realized.

Our protagonist [Alceste] is a guy who believes all of humanity is just full of empty flattery, he's not impressed with Baroque declarations of undying friendship to mere acquaintances, and he spends the first scene of Act I saying you shouldn't pretend feelings you don't have, you shouldn't tell white lies, and you definitely shouldn't flatter. Whether it's someone's personality, appearance, or painting, if you don't like it, you should tell them to their face. The guy he's talking to takes the stance that some politeness is called for in life.

Scene II: in comes a third party, Oronte. He's just written a poem and wants criticism on it.

Me at this point: Okay, I see why this was the first thing to come to mind for Hille.

But it gets better!

Our protagonist Alceste says he's way too blunt to give feedback, and Oronte is like, "No, no, that's exactly what I want! Bring on the honesty."

So Alceste agrees to hear the poem and give his honest opinion.

Oronte reads a bad poem, which he says he dashed off in 15 minutes. And Alceste gives a speech about how some people just aren't meant to be poets. And if you read this exchange with the mindset that Hille read it aloud to Fritz, and knowing what the rest of Fritz's life is going to be like...I died laughing.

Here goes.

First, the poem:

Hope, it is true, may bring relief
And rock to sleep awhile our pain;
But, Phyllis, what small gain and brief,
If nothing follow in its train!

You showed me some benevolence,
But should have shown me less, or none,
Nor put yourself to such expense
To give me hope, and hope alone.

I can dig up the French, but since none of us are fluent in French, the English will do just as well for now.

Now, Alceste gives his feedback.

ALCESTE
This is a ticklish subject always, sir;
We’re fond of being flattered for our wit.
But I was saying, just the other day,
To some one—I won't mention any names—
On hearing certain verses he had written,
That any gentleman should always keep
In stern control this writing itch we’re seized with;
That he must hold in check the great impatience
We feel to give the world these idle pastimes;
For, through this eagerness to show our works,
'Tis likely we shall cut a foolish figure.

ORONTE
And do you mean to intimate by this,
That I am wrong to wish . . . ?

ALCESTE
I don't say that.
But I was telling him, a frigid piece
Of writing, bores to death; and this one weakness
Is quite enough to damn a man, no matter
What sterling qualities he have withal;
For men are judged most often by their foibles.

ORONTE
Then do you think my sonnet bad?

ALCESTE
I don't say that.
But still, as reason for not writing,
I tried to make him see how, right among us,
This lust for ink has spoiled most worthy men.

ORONTE
Do I write badly then? D' ye mean I'm like 'em?

ALCESTE
I don't say that. But still (said I to him)
What is your urgent need of making verses?
And who the deuce should drive you into print?
Only poor creatures writing for a living
Can ever be excused for publishing
A wretched book. Come, come, resist temptation,
Conceal this sort of business from the public,
And don't, for anything, go and abandon
Your reputation as a gentleman
To get in place on't, from a greedy printer,
That of ridiculous and wretched scribe.
That's what I tried to make him understand.

...

ORONTE
And I maintain my lines are excellent.

ALCESTE
You have your reasons, sir, for thinking so;
But you must grant me reasons of my own,
And not expect that mine shall bow to yours.

ORONTE
I’m satisfied to find that others prize them.

ALCESTE
They have the art of feigning. I have not.

ORONTE
D' ye think you are endowed with all the brains?

ALCESTE
Did I but praise your rhymes, you'd grant me more.

ORONTE
I'll get along quite well without your praise.

ALCESTE
You'll have to get along without it, please.

ORONTE
I'd like to have you write, in your own style,
Some verses on the subject, just to see.

ALCESTE
I might, by bad luck, write as wretched ones;
But I'd be mighty careful not to show 'em.

Wooooow. Can you imagine Hille reading this out loud to 18-yo Fritz? I love it extra because just as Alceste is telling Oronte indirectly that he was telling someone else to stop writing bad poetry--but not telling Oronte directly that his poetry was bad or that he should stop writing!--Hille is reading aloud from a renowned French dramatist a piece explaining why Fritz should stop writing poetry or at the very least stop showing it to people.

Voltaire, Catt, Mitchell, Lucchesini: *lolsob*
Fredersdorf: Je ne parle pas français!

I also love that Fritz never, ever, ever backed down, even knowing that he wasn't a good poet (and that he never stopped wanting to become one).

Related, around the same time, I stumbled across this passage in his letters to Voltaire (1737, so shortly after they started corresponding). The first part we've seen in the big debate over whether it referred to Wreech, Orzelska, or someone else (Doris Ritter?), but the second paragraph was new to me, and it struck me in the context of those verses Hille read him:

A kind person inspired me in the flower of my young years two passions at the same time; you can well imagine that one was love, and the other
poetry. This little miracle of nature, with all possible graces, had taste and delicacy. She wanted to communicate them to me. I succeed quite well in love, but badly in poetry. Since that time, I have been in love quite often, and always a poet.

If you know some secret to cure men of this mania, you will really do Christian work to communicate it to me; otherwise I condemn you to teach me the rules of this enchanting art that you have embellished, and which, in turn, does you so much honor.

I'm convinced this is the context in which Fritz says, "I could have made something of myself if Voltaire had stuck around in Prussia." I really think he's talking about poetry, his major unfulfilled goal in life.

Meanwhile, <3 Wilke for welcoming poor traumatized Fritz to the domain chamber with a poem. And major <333 for Duhan, the guy who got the identical "come quickly!" message that Algarotti got.

Edited 2020-10-17 23:41 (UTC)

I'm with Fritz: Moliere's verses are a masterpiece. :) Also this is another superb bit of work by our Royal Detective.

Many years ago, I saw a modern adaption of The Misanthrope, starring Damian Lewis as Alceste, no less, but while I still remember the general outline, I'd forgotten the details, including how applicable the scene with Oronte is to the Hille and Fritz situation. It's really perfect, and btw, it says something about just how deeply steeped into French culture an 18th century German noble was if even an FW approved official like Hille knows his Moliere well enough to have the correct allusion ready. (BTW, given Fritz at this stage was just to read theology, I wonder what Dad would have said to the lengthy Moliere quotation?)

As for Wilke, I shall honor him by trying my hand at a verse translation again.

Most noble Prince! Your purple here will shine,
where there's a portrait of the founder of your line,
Both eyes and shield across our borders was he,
and justly called a wise Prince across Germany.

Oh Lord! Will you indulge us with a gaze
of brightness, such as your mind otherwise
produces in abundance, and like our sun's rays
warm your good servant, whose devotion never lies.

Please let us kiss your hand in due humility,
and pledge our hearts to you forevermore,
and do excuse the probability
that, noble Prince, in obedience they were yours before.

Your glamor dazzles us and makes us now retreat,
and our humbleness must hem our tongue,
but praying for you shall be an easy feat,
for you, dear Prince, and also for the throne.

Fritz' short German reply poem:

The Prince is grateful for the effort made,
and gracefully accepts poetry's fruit;
If your loyality and duty do not fade,
he will reward such service, and such good.

Edited 2020-10-18 11:21 (UTC)

it says something about just how deeply steeped into French culture an 18th century German noble was if even an FW approved official like Hille knows his Moliere well enough to have the correct allusion ready.

Exactly what I was thinking!

BTW, given Fritz at this stage was just to read theology, I wonder what Dad would have said to the lengthy Moliere quotation?

Ooh, good point.

Hille: Your Majesty, it was for a good cause, I swear!

Lol, I remember you coming up with this exchange when we discovered Fritz's plan to marry into the Hapsburgs:

here's how I imagine things went down in Potsdam:

Grumpkow: Your Majesty, the crown prince is now very devout, praying with Pastor Muller.

FW: Good.

G: He's sworn of the English marriage project.

FW: He'd better.

G:...and wants to marry an Austrian arch duchess, convert to Chatholicism and move to Vienna.

FW: WTF?!!!!!

G: Just a suggestion, maybe allow him to play the flute again? Just as an alternative to Catholicism, of course.

Wilke thanks you for the honor you do him by translating his poems for us to appreciate. :)

I'd forgotten the details, including how applicable the scene with Oronte is to the Hille and Fritz situation. It's really perfect

I don't know anything about Moliere's life story, but I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that, like Voltaire, he probably got asked to beta read bad to mediocre poetry by rich people a lot. ;)

I only know he was a non-noble actor-playwright at the court of Louis XIV., which makes me assume the same thing. :) Checking on his German wiki entry, I see it also claims Alceste in The Misanthrope is the most autobiogrophical of his characters.

(Also, another thing he had in common with Voltaire was that since he was an actor who got in trouble with the church a couple of times (notoriously, because of Tartuffe, the play in which he makes fun of a religious hypocrites), he nearly hadn't gotten a Christian burial; it needed the personal intervention of Louis XIV. for it to happen.

Love the Moliere detective work, that's some awesome literary context!

One thing that came to mind while thinking about the translation of the Hille quote, though:

... for the last two days he has been torturing himself to render into French some German verses that the idiot Wilke* has given him. I recited him the verses on Oronte from Molière's "Misanthrope" until I was exhausted. He said they were wonderful, and nothing could convince him otherwise. The devil take his cursed tutor [Duhan], who didn't know any better than to put this kind of shallow stuff into his head.

If this is all one paragraph - which is what it looks like in the original - then I'd suspect that the bolded they ["sie" originally, not any more clear on what it's referring to, so not a translation problem] might mean Wilke's verses, not Moliere's, and that Fritz might have understood Hille's Moliere reference to mean mostly Wilke and not himself, therefore seeing himself in the position of Alceste more than Oronte here?

Either way, I'm delighted that Hille basically accomplished the opposite of what he wanted.

Re: Fritz' passion for poetry, I really liked the recurring "I don't want your flattery, I know my poetry isn't that great, I rather want you to correct me and tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I want to learn" theme in Fritz' letters to Voltaire.

If this is all one paragraph - which is what it looks like in the original - then I'd suspect that the bolded they ["sie" originally, not any more clear on what it's referring to, so not a translation problem] might mean Wilke's verses, not Moliere's?

Yeah, I went back and forth on what "they" was, and finally settled on "probably Wilke's verses", but it *is* really confusing having "sie" refer to not the most recent applicable plural noun, but the one before it. I should have said something, but I just translated it literally and waited to see what the German speakers thought. :)

Either way, I'm delighted that Hille basically accomplished the opposite of what he wanted.

Fritz at the end of his life: So, Dad and Hille, I still write verses like I'm running out of time, and also I still believe in predestination. Hah!

Re: Fritz' passion for poetry, I really liked the recurring "I don't want your flattery, I know my poetry isn't that great, I rather want you to correct me and tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I want to learn" theme in Fritz' letters to Voltaire.

Yeah, that is great. People not Voltaire were still in a dicey position when asked to offer feedback, but fortunately Mitchell was a professional diplomat and managed to couch his such that Fritz accepted criticism (which, without any data, I'm going to guess was partly to Fritz's credit, partly to Mitchell's).

omg, this is SO GREAT. HAHAHAHA Alceste is hilarious and like you say it's even more hilarious that Hille was reading this indirect critique as an indirect critique of Fritz!

Man, I haven't read any Molière but one of these days...

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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

Stratemann - Küstrin poetry

Re: Stratemann - Küstrin poetry

Re: Stratemann - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry

Re: Molière - Küstrin poetry