Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

[cahn]

Yuletide nominations:

18th Century CE Federician RPF
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria
Voltaire
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff
Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Anna Amalie von Preußen | Anna Amalia of Prussia (1723-1787)
Catherine II of Russia
Hans Hermann von Katte
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf
August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758)

Circle of Voltaire RPF
Emilie du Chatelet
Jeanne Antoinette Poisson (Madame de Pompadour)
John Hervey (1696-1743)
Marie Louise Mignot Denis
Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
Pierre Louis Moreau de Maupertuis
Armand de Vignerot du Plessis de Richelieu (1696-1788)
Francesco Algarotti

Comments

Re: Andrew Mitchell: The Return - Choosing an Envoy

[selenak]

LOL on Blanning's whitewashing of G2's attitude towars Wretched Nephew.
G2: I just don't like younger relations called Fritz, okay? They're never up to any good.



Note: this is when the Brits suggest Peter Keith, and Fritz is all NO NO NO DO NOT WANT about the idea. :P

To fully appreciate how utterly insulting to Peter Keith (and also somewhat insulting to the Brits in terms of how serious he took relations with them until 1756) this is, get this: the Legationssekretär in GB was one Abraham Michell (yes, Michell, just to make life easier for us), whom Fritz had never met, who had, in fact, never visited Prussia in his life, and about whom it's unclear whether he even had taken the customary oath of loyalty to Prussia when becoming the previous envoy's secretary. The previous envoy had also been a Swiss (but at least one who' dbeen to Berlin and was known to people there), and Michell had joined Prussian service through this backdoor. When Podewils suggested raising him from Legationssekretär to minister, rank wise, now that he was full time envoy, Fritz said no, he'd demand a bigger salary then, and Fritz was all about saving money. And Michell - who, again, no one in Berlin knew and who never had visited any part of Prussia in his life - remained on the job.

...I do hope Peter never learned the Brits had asked for him, or at least not who the alternate candidate was. Also, again, date wise: This decision was made in 1747; within two years, after Hans Hermann's half brothers killed each other, Fritz intervenes in Katte family affair and gets cousin Ludolf a rich heiress.

Chesterfield: it is, indeed, possible, but like I said, I REALLY HOPE HE DIDN'T TELL PETER:

Re: Andrew Mitchell: The Return - Choosing an Envoy

[mildred_of_midgard]

LOL on Blanning's whitewashing of G2's attitude towars Wretched Nephew.

It may not be deliberate whitewashing! Maybe he only read the diplomatic versions. After all, those ministers are getting paid for *something*, and that includes successful spin doctoring.

get this: the Legationssekretär in GB was one Abraham Michell (yes, Michell, just to make life easier for us), whom Fritz had never met, who had, in fact, never visited Prussia in his life, and about whom it's unclear whether he even had taken the customary oath of loyalty to Prussia when becoming the previous envoy's secretary.

Oh, gosh. So I was with Fritz that Peter might not be the person you'd want for hardcore negotiations, but if the alternative is this guy, and no formal envoy? In a way, though, that almost makes it better: clearly this has less to do with Peter and more to do with 1) Fritz being cheap, 2) Fritz not giving a damn about British relations.

...It's a balance-of-powers miracle that Fritz ended up with any allies at all in 1756. :P

This decision was made in 1747; within two years, after Hans Hermann's half brothers killed each other, Fritz intervenes in Katte family affair and gets cousin Ludolf a rich heiress.

Yep, I was thinking of this. No wonder my fictional Peter is so insecure in 1750. :/

Chesterfield: it is, indeed, possible, but like I said, I REALLY HOPE HE DIDN'T TELL PETER:

Let's hope it went like this.

British: Sound out Fritz.
British: Get a thumbs down.
British: Decide there's no point in telling Peter.

Let's also hope Peter was happier as Academy curator anyway.

Re: Andrew Mitchell: The Return - Choosing an Envoy

[selenak]

Well, he had Ariane and his friends there, and while presumably he'd have taken his wife and children with him if he'd had to move to London as envoy, it would have meant uprooting again.

British: Decide there's no point in telling Peter.

It did strike me that when after August III's death Heinrich was considered a candidate for next King of Poland, Fritz told the Polish delegation not just no but forbade them to mention it to Heinrich, who indeed dit not find out until visiting Catherine seven years later. So maybe he told the Brits not to tell Peter, either, which would have saved Peter from feeling rejected all over again.

Lehndorff: This is why all right-thinking people are indignant on your behalf, Sir. But I'm honored to know you anyway.

Re: Andrew Mitchell: The Return - Choosing an Envoy

[mildred_of_midgard]

Well, he had Ariane and his friends there, and while presumably he'd have taken his wife and children with him if he'd had to move to London as envoy, it would have meant uprooting again.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

So maybe he told the Brits not to tell Peter, either, which would have saved Peter from feeling rejected all over again.

Good point re Heinrich. I would guess it depends on whether Fritz thinks Keith was scheming, in which case he needs a firm "no, and stop it," or whether it was all the British, in which case he doesn't want to give Peter ideas. Since his letter says he's leaning toward the latter, let's hope he went, "No, and don't bring this up with Keith ever!"

Lehndorff: This is why all right-thinking people are indignant on your behalf, Sir. But I'm honored to know you anyway.

<3 you quoting from my fic!