cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

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frederick the great

Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

Yuletide nominations:

18th Century CE Federician RPF
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria
Voltaire
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff
Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Anna Amalie von Preußen | Anna Amalia of Prussia (1723-1787)
Catherine II of Russia
Hans Hermann von Katte
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf
August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758)

Circle of Voltaire RPF
Emilie du Chatelet
Jeanne Antoinette Poisson (Madame de Pompadour)
John Hervey (1696-1743)
Marie Louise Mignot Denis
Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
Pierre Louis Moreau de Maupertuis
Armand de Vignerot du Plessis de Richelieu (1696-1788)
Francesco Algarotti

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Welcome to the salon!

a whole academy of people who are writing under the name of Voltaire

Naturally, my mind went to the Oxfordians, cursed by their name, and other Anti-Stratfordians in Shakespeare scholarship. :) I'd like to see someone pull off a spoof of the snobby Shakespeare authorship debate along the following lines:

- "There was no Voltare! This hint in Fritz' letter is a confession of the truth disguised as a joke."

- No bourgois notary's son could have written and done all that "Voltaire" did. Clearly, what TRULY happened was that SOMEONE hired Francois Arouet as an actor to escape censorship/disguise their activities from their fellow nobles, but who?

- Possible candidates: Émilie for the Newton book, in order to be taken seriously as author, schoolfriend Richelieu for the early drama and the poetry, in order not to piss off the Regent and then the King, but deflect the heat on "Voltaire", and then (the ultimate insult in terms of rl) Fritz for the later drama, historical works and poetry, in order for his works to be regarded impartially; the Voltaire/Fritz fallout from 1750 - 1753 happened because the actor Arouet demanded more and more money; as for the correspondance, clearly, Fritz wrote both sides, hence all the praise.

Nisus and Euryalus: considering I have, alas, not yet read the complete Aeneid but only retellings (and at first the bowlderized one by Gustav Schwab), I had to look them up as well back in the day. But yes, one can see the attraction.

Interest in physics: may be been especially vivid in 1739 because that was when he met Algarotti whose main claim to fame at that point was Newtonian in nature, too.

when was that whole "40 cups of coffee instead of sleep" experiment? earlier probably

As far as I know, it was in 1737 when Suhm had translated Wolff for him into French. But Mildred should have the exect dates.

Another take-away from my recent reading, particularly the rheinsberg write-ups: siblings! So many sibling feelings, so many complex and heartbreaking relationships.

I must admit this gladdens my heart, because the siblings angle was the one I brought to this fandom, while Mildred is the boyfriends expert. (Though she succeeded in getting me interested in the boyfriends as well while I succeeded in getting her interested in the siblings.) And yes, the handholding with Heinrich and Amalie at the end of the post-war party as something that stuck into my mind in particular, too. (The other physical Fritzian gesture re: Heinrich in the 7 Years War years that struck observers, in this case not Lehndorff but Heinrich's AD Henckel von Donnersmarck, was the post- defeat at Kolin meltdown complete with hug, kiss and "I want to die" outburst, where you have Henckel in his diary going "WTF? Did he ever kiss him before? How screwed are we?").

History AU fixits: I know what you mean, and I speak as someone who actually wrote one, though being me, I "fixed" things by killing Fritz himself of. (Well, Mildred did ask for "Katte lives" scenarios. :) ) They're still enjoyable to read, but it's harder to buy completely into them the way you can in a fictional canon whose characters never lived.

Though she succeeded in getting me interested in the boyfriends as well while I succeeded in getting her interested in the siblings.

This is why I love this fandom!

As far as I know, it was in 1737 when Suhm had translated Wolff for him into French. But Mildred should have the exect dates.

It was in 1736 that Fritz started writing to Suhm, and said he was giving up sleep to study (and Suhm quite understandably said maybe that wasn't the greatest idea?), and I speculated that that was when he tried the experiment, but that's all I've got: speculation.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, though. :) If I had come across exact dates, I would have them and they would be in our chronology!

I speak as someone who actually wrote one, though being me, I "fixed" things by killing Fritz himself of.

As you know, I always refer to this as a "break-it-differently" fic. ;) Don't get me wrong, it was great, and I'm forever grateful that you wrote it because it was the story I never knew I always needed to read, and if I didn't love tragedy, I wouldn't be into this fandom, much less this episode, much less the Brontes, but let's be clear: you broke it differently. :P

Well, Mildred did ask for "Katte lives" scenarios. :)

And I'm glad I did, because there are so many things about that fic I would never give up, but yes. It's very you. ;) (I did something very similar in my last fandom: wrote a fix-it AU where I killed off the main character I was supposedly "fixing", so I definitely can't throw stones.)

it's harder to buy completely into them the way you can in a fictional canon whose characters never lived.

Sometimes I think this is why I have like 10 unfinished AUs--I write and I write, and at the end of the day, I still know it changes nothing.

OKAY THAT DOES IT. I am totally asking for the AU where Émilie is actually the one who wrote everything under the name of "Voltaire," and Francois Arouet is just the witty actor who is the front (since of course no one would take it seriously if they found out it was a WOMAN). And this is why she doesn't want Arouet to go to Prussia, because she is worried ~~they will start an affair and~~ Fritz will find out the truth! (But instead... does he enter into the masquerade instead and write all the letters??)

because the siblings angle was the one I brought to this fandom

And very glad I am for it, too <33333

though being me, I "fixed" things by killing Fritz himself

See, unlike mildred I do think this is a fix-it, because it was just SO cathartic to read Wilhelmine saying "But it is better for you to die than for justice to leave this world" to FW. YES. Stupid reality :P

Thank you!

Interest in physics: may be been especially vivid in 1739 because that was when he met Algarotti whose main claim to fame at that point was Newtonian in nature, too.

Interesting, didn't know that about Algarotti. I think the chronology doesn't quite match up, though, since Algarotti showed up at Rheinsberg in September I think, and the letter is from February. Émilie sent Fritz her work on fire in November 1938, and the whole Émilie/Voltaire/Paris Academy competition was right before that, so I was wondering if that was what got him interested.

The other physical Fritzian gesture re: Heinrich in the 7 Years War years that struck observers, in this case not Lehndorff but Heinrich's AD Henckel von Donnersmarck, was the post- defeat at Kolin meltdown complete with hug, kiss and "I want to die" outburst, where you have Henckel in his diary going "WTF? Did he ever kiss him before? How screwed are we?"

Ohhh, I hadn't heard of that one yet. Damn.

The relevant diary entry from Henckel von Donnersmarck:

dem 19. um 3 Uhr nachmittags. Se. Königl. Hoheit ritten sogleich mit dem Prinzen Ferdinand zu dem Hause in Micheln, welches der König dort vor seinem Abmarsche nach Kolin bewohnt hatte, um ihm darselbst zu erwarten. Welch schmerzliches Schauspiel bot sich unseren Blicken dar, als wir den von Schmerzen und Kummer gebeugt ankommen sahen, der sich noch vor wenigen Tagen für den Eroberer der Welt gehalten hatte. Seit 36 Stunden saß er auf demselben Pferde, und obgleich man deutlich sah, dass er sich vor Ermattung kaum noch barauf erhalten konnte , so zwang er sich doch zu einer guten Haltung. Nachdem er eingetreten war, ließ er den Prinzen Heinrich rufen . Der König lag auf einem mit einem Betttuche belegten Strohsacke, da sein Gepäck noch nicht angekommen war. Er küßte, vielleicht zum ersten Male , seinen Bruder zärtlich, gestand ihm seinen tödtlichen Schmerz und versicherte ihm , daß Alles , was er bis jetzt unternommen habe , nur aus Liebe zu seiner Familie geschehen sei. Er wiederholte zu verschiedenen Malen , daß er zu sterben wünsche und daß er sich das Leben nehmen würde. Der Prinz beschwor ihn , sich zu beruhigen und die ihnen noch bleibenden köstlichen Augenblicke zum Rückzuge zu benutzen , ehe Daun oder Nadaſti Zeit gewönne heranzukommen und ihnen noch mehr Schaden zuzufügen . Der König erwiederte dem Prinzen , daß er jetzt zu Allem unfähig sei und daß er Ruhe bedürfe.
Er beauftragte den Prinzen die nöthigen Dispositionen zu entwerfen , worauf ihm dieser die bereits fertige, welche der König genehmigte, vorwies. Hierauf ersammelte der Prinz die Generalität und theilte ihr die Disposition mit.

Oh, wow, that's something indeed. Thank you so much! I continue to be occasionally surprised by how visceral/explicit the primary sources are, especially in contrast to all the hiding and dissembling that's also happening.

Quite. I was thrilled when I found this one; Henckel delivers on other occasions as well, such as during Fritz' early outbursts against AW followed by the officers starting to mutter he's scapegoating as soon as his back is turned. Come the 19th century, these kind of scenes were ignored because they did not it with the whole national hero image, until Koser (who unearthed a great number of sources) brought them back - he uses Henckel's diary as a source, - though not without chiding him as biased against Fritz due to being Heinrich's AD in the early part of the war and a friend of his in general. It's telling that when Koser describes the same scene (Fritz returning from Kolin) in his Frederick-the-Great biography, he actually uses Henckel's descripton almost verbatim at first, though, just slightly paraphrased, only adding a bit in late 19th century pseudo Wagnerian style - "sein helles Auge, das sonst jedem erstrahlte, nun war es umwölkt" - and censoring the kiss. (Oh, and Henckel's sharp "der sich noch vor wenigen Tagen für den Eroberer der Welt gehalten hatte".)

Henri de Catt hears about the same event from Henckel a few years later, and it shows up in his diary partly in Latin, though not, I think, in his memoirs. BTW, the reason why Heinrich had a retreat plan ready to be okay'd was that as soon as he'd heard what had happened from the messenger Fritz had sent ahead, he figured they'd need one and worked one out. This is the kind of thing that makes an alter ego.

Oh, Henckel *does* say it was the same horse! Wow, that poor horse.

Apropos of that, I must share this recent finding from The Club with

cahn:

After six months in Glasgow, Boswell did a daring thing. He absconded from the university and escaped to London, making the entire three-hundred-mile journey on horseback. Along the way he rode from Carlisle to London in two days and a half, an impressive feat. When he recounted this to some accomplished horsemen they cried out, “What, sir, upon the same horse?” “No, gentlemen,” he replied, “that would be no merit of mine. But I’ll tell you what is better: it was upon the same bum.”

:(

Also, hee :)

The horse is an unsung martyr of the 7 Years War. Along with the two which got shot under Fritz on other occasions, of course. And Heinrich's horse at Prague.

That is a hilarious anecdote I wasn't familiar with yet (the quote, thata is)!

Whee, now I'm proud of myself for finding one that was new to you. :D

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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts

Re: Early Fritz letter to Voltaire / Random Thoughts