Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

[cahn]

Yuletide nominations:

18th Century CE Federician RPF
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria
Voltaire
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff
Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Anna Amalie von Preußen | Anna Amalia of Prussia (1723-1787)
Catherine II of Russia
Hans Hermann von Katte
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf
August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758)

Circle of Voltaire RPF
Emilie du Chatelet
Jeanne Antoinette Poisson (Madame de Pompadour)
John Hervey (1696-1743)
Marie Louise Mignot Denis
Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
Pierre Louis Moreau de Maupertuis
Armand de Vignerot du Plessis de Richelieu (1696-1788)
Francesco Algarotti

Comments

Re: Friedrich: Triumph und Tragödie

[mildred_of_midgard]

Since I'm *not* planning on watching this, thank you so much for the writeup! And I'm glad you were able to watch it.

it's not just the Katte/Wilhelmine but also Grumbkow/SD

*sigh*

we talked about this; given the spirit of the age, the existence of the most modern and best drilled army of Europe and the shape of the Prussian territories, even a lightside version of FW as a father would have not made Fritz into a pacifist, and he'd still gone for Silesia, though he might not have been such an attack-attack-attack type of general

Yeeeeeep to all this. Though I agree, psychological simplification is to be expected for a musical of this sort.

Oh, and I would "Fritz's ambition and restlessness" to that list of causes that would have contributed to an invasion even in the lightside FW AU.

One thing I'm not sure if I mentioned: I kind of think young Fritz's "death shroud" attitude toward the army might have been as much nurture as nature, i.e. teenage rebellion against his abusive father, rather than who he would have been with a lightside FW.

(I do severely question whether Fritz puts together an army from scratch if raised by Grandpa F1 instead of lightside FW.)

It's also telling that Fritz and Katte have no duet.

Well, then, what even is the point of this, says the Fritz/Katte shipper. :P

(I'm also nerd enough to complain about his wearing a shirt and his head being covered by a paperback/hood

I wish to note that of all the depictions of Katte's execution I've seen, the only one (Thronfolger) where they felt the need to include the historically accurate detail of Katte removing his shirt was the only one where the actor had pecs that needed to be shown off. :P

- I mean, after all the trouble we went to accumulating contemporary execution descriptions, it's just a Pavlovian reaction to mutter about this.)

LOL forever! I inadvertently conditioned you. :D

It's a fierce duet with both performers really bringing it, and it culminates with Fritz demanding submission and getting it, and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

:(

Trust me, I made more money due to said efforts than I ever received from my Prussian Alcina. The salary really wasn't what kept me in this mantrap of a country for three nerve-wrecking years.

LOL, no, we've seen you all gay-for-Fritz, Voltaire, there's no getting away from it. Ghost!Katte missed the mark on that one. Though if he's meant to be Fritz's conscience, maybe it works on that level: Fritz's own fears and loneliness.

(Though I will say that all the praise certainly works with his praise kink. *g*)

*g* I still want to write a praise kink sex scene with Fritz (and Voltaire?) one day.

Re: Friedrich: Triumph und Tragödie

[selenak]

You're welcome. I figured you might, given your difficulties with watching films.

Incidentally, the "death shroud" quote gets an entire song of its own, with Fritz singing "no Sterbekittel for me!" just before his final big pre escape attempt clash with FW. Agreed that this was a counter reaction to FW ramming the military down his throat and likely would not have happened with a lightside FW. (Much like his attitude towards German as a language.)

(I do severely question whether Fritz puts together an army from scratch if raised by Grandpa F1 instead of lightside FW.)

That is indeed a far less likely outcome. Along with Fritz putting himself through an austerity program along with the country in order to turn it from broke to prospering. Yes, he cultivated a modest public life style himself later post 7 Years War in rl, wearing only uniforms, but that didn't stop him building palaces with Silesian marble and paying for statues and orchestras. Seriously, both the hero worshipping and the decontructing historians I've read agree that in this sense, without FW, you do not get Frederick the Great or Prussia as a serious European power instead of a so-so German principality, full stop.

I wish to note that of all the depictions of Katte's execution I've seen, the only one (Thronfolger) where they felt the need to include the historically accurate detail of Katte removing his shirt was the only one where the actor had pecs that needed to be shown off.

The actor got shirtless in his sex scenes as young Peter the Great in that other 80s tv series about an 18th century monarch, too, and it's a nice view, is what it is. :) BTW, to be fair, there's an obvious reason why they didn't do that with Katte in the musical, and also why his head is covered, and he doesn't speak. The Katte actor is on stage with a mike so often (in full Gens d'Armes uniform) as a ghost that I assume they used a stuntman for the execution scene, otherwise he'd have to get back into his coat and put his mikrophone on in seconds.

Well, then, what even is the point of this, says the Fritz/Katte shipper.

You get a hug and a playful kiss earlier, but yeah. A musical heavily featuring the crown prince years without a Fritz/Katte duet is missing the obvious.