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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 18
...apparently reading group is the way to get lots of comments quickly?
No kidding. Re: Fredersdorf the village, Lehndorff, who was related to the Podewils, went there several times a year every year, which means searching for the name "Fredersdorf" will get you a lot of holidaying, as I learned early on. :)
There was indeed a mighty opera war going, and Fritz of Wales was supporting the other side (which had hired Farinelli - if you've ever seen the movie Farinelli, they include something of that competition during his guest starring in London) but what Hervey doesn't mention is that Fritz of Wales was a passionate violincellist and that his father disapproved, which had been the first of many musical family differences long before it was Handel vs Nobility Opera (where Fritz of Wales also sometimes played far away from his disapproving family.
Fritz and G2 can bond over fox-hunting, though. I found the original passage in Hervey's memoirs where he tells that story (of G2 going "Fox hunting WTF, English people?), and it's as great as Horowitz' paraphrase. Will quote at length when I find the time.
FW would have taken him up on the challenge, are you with me on this?
You have my sword. He so would have, even if he'd been in one of his wheelchair-bound phases. What choice of weapons, though? Or are they going to do a wrestling and boxing combination again?
I'm also with you in that G2 better watch out. FW has that killer instinct. Now the next question is: whom would SD and Caroline be rooting for, in their heart of hearts? Wait, scratch that. Even if Caroline is exhausted by all the G2 wrangling she has to do, she gets her power from him, and if he dies or is incapacitated, her least favourite kid gets on the throne. Meanwhile, if FW gets killed or incapacitated, Fritz becomes King.
Otoh: if there's a non lethal ending with both parties alive and well, just one of them terribly embarassed and humiliated, then SD is rooting for FW all the way, and Caroline for G2. They have to live with them if they lose, after all.
The "Fritz of Wales sneaks of to Berlin" plan sounds vaguely familiar, and not just from Wilhelmine's memoirs. Halsband might have mentioned it. Not sure, though.
FW would have taken him up on the challenge, are you with me on this?
You have my sword. He so would have, even if he'd been in one of his wheelchair-bound phases. What choice of weapons, though? Or are they going to do a wrestling and boxing combination again?
I'm also with you in that G2 better watch out. FW has that killer instinct. Now the next question is: whom would SD and Caroline be rooting for, in their heart of hearts? Wait, scratch that. Even if Caroline is exhausted by all the G2 wrangling she has to do, she gets her power from him, and if he dies or is incapacitated, her least favourite kid gets on the throne. Meanwhile, if FW gets killed or incapacitated, Fritz becomes King.
Otoh: if there's a non lethal ending with both parties alive and well, just one of them terribly embarassed and humiliated, then SD is rooting for FW all the way, and Caroline for G2. They have to live with them if they lose, after all.
The "Fritz of Wales sneaks of to Berlin" plan sounds vaguely familiar, and not just from Wilhelmine's memoirs. Halsband might have mentioned it. Not sure, though.
:D That sounds amazing! I want pics! :D (including pics of gorgeous food if that's something you're interested in doing :D ) Have lots of fun!
and maybe I'll actually catch up with replying to your writeups in the next nine days, lol
Oh! This probably means I should do the yuletide fandom promo post, huh? I'll try to see if I can do that this weekend. Will probably mostly use the post from last year, at least for Frederician.
Oh! This probably means I should do the yuletide fandom promo post, huh? I'll try to see if I can do that this weekend. Will probably mostly use the post from last year, at least for Frederician.
WELP. Something was demanding to be moved to the Rheinsberg fanfic prompts tag. :D
With you on SD and Caroline.
What choice of weapons, though? Or are they going to do a wrestling and boxing combination again?
Given what happened when Hervey fought a duel and *didn't* use pistols, and given the shade G2 is throwing at FW's courage, probably pistols?
But for maximum crackfic hilarity, wrestling and boxing combination, totally.
Fritz and G2 can bond over fox-hunting, though.
True, although I recall from your first write-up that G2 was on board with hunting game that gives you some kind of challenge? And it was primarily Amelia I was thinking of: riding and hunting were her big passions, and Fritz needs to stay on her good side at least a little during the big England/Hannover (Ha! See, I'm using the German spelling already :P) conflict with Prussia, so he grits his teeth and hunts a little. 1733-1740 shows us what Fritz is capable of when he stands to get something out of it.
I found the original passage in Hervey's memoirs where he tells that story (of G2 going "Fox hunting WTF, English people?), and it's as great as Horowitz' paraphrase. Will quote at length when I find the time.
Found it!
When the Duke of Grafton notified his design to go into the country, the King told him it was a pretty occupation for a man of quality, and at his age, to be spending all his time in tormenting a poor fox, that was generally a much better beast than any of those that pursued him; for the fox hurts no other animal but for his subsistence, whilst those brutes who hurt him did it only for the pleasure they took in hurting. The Duke of Grafton said he did it for his health. The King asked him why he could not as well walk or ride post for his health ; and said, if there was any pleasure in the chase, he was sure the Duke of Grafton could know nothing of it; "for," added his Majesty, "with your great corps of twenty stone weight, no horse, I am sure, can carry you within hearing, much less within sight, of your hounds." This last dialogue I was present at.
With you on SD and Caroline.
What choice of weapons, though? Or are they going to do a wrestling and boxing combination again?
Given what happened when Hervey fought a duel and *didn't* use pistols, and given the shade G2 is throwing at FW's courage, probably pistols?
But for maximum crackfic hilarity, wrestling and boxing combination, totally.
Fritz and G2 can bond over fox-hunting, though.
True, although I recall from your first write-up that G2 was on board with hunting game that gives you some kind of challenge? And it was primarily Amelia I was thinking of: riding and hunting were her big passions, and Fritz needs to stay on her good side at least a little during the big England/Hannover (Ha! See, I'm using the German spelling already :P) conflict with Prussia, so he grits his teeth and hunts a little. 1733-1740 shows us what Fritz is capable of when he stands to get something out of it.
I found the original passage in Hervey's memoirs where he tells that story (of G2 going "Fox hunting WTF, English people?), and it's as great as Horowitz' paraphrase. Will quote at length when I find the time.
Found it!
When the Duke of Grafton notified his design to go into the country, the King told him it was a pretty occupation for a man of quality, and at his age, to be spending all his time in tormenting a poor fox, that was generally a much better beast than any of those that pursued him; for the fox hurts no other animal but for his subsistence, whilst those brutes who hurt him did it only for the pleasure they took in hurting. The Duke of Grafton said he did it for his health. The King asked him why he could not as well walk or ride post for his health ; and said, if there was any pleasure in the chase, he was sure the Duke of Grafton could know nothing of it; "for," added his Majesty, "with your great corps of twenty stone weight, no horse, I am sure, can carry you within hearing, much less within sight, of your hounds." This last dialogue I was present at.
My best guess: "I used to slow the dogs down", not "stop the dogs".
Ooh, that makes sense! I was thinking of Fritz's claims that he used to read during the hunt, but of course, if everyone is still moving, just more slowly, then he might very well accidentally step on a dog's foot and have to watch out.
Ooh, that makes sense! I was thinking of Fritz's claims that he used to read during the hunt, but of course, if everyone is still moving, just more slowly, then he might very well accidentally step on a dog's foot and have to watch out.
Ooh, that sounds amazing! Have lots of fun!
I won't be able to do any more write ups in the next few days, I guess.
That works out, since I want to go heads-down on German while it's starting to click but not quite there yet.
And thanks for doing the Enlightenment evidence post for us!
I won't be able to do any more write ups in the next few days, I guess.
That works out, since I want to go heads-down on German while it's starting to click but not quite there yet.
And thanks for doing the Enlightenment evidence post for us!
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - Seven Years' War
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mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-18 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I was a tad sceptical during my original reading of the diaries, but Sophie von Voss backs him up here - i.e. EC after SD's death trying to be more authoritarian (and failing at it)
I just got to the part where Amalie writes the "we all suck, except Louise, she's an angel" letter, and she too says that EC is authoritarian.
I remember when you first read this book to us and titled your post "Why you should never marry a Hohenzollern." I guess that's what Amalie titled her letter.
I like how she finishes it, "Let's be real: I probably suck too. [I was raised by Hohenzollerns, after all.]"
I just got to the part where Amalie writes the "we all suck, except Louise, she's an angel" letter, and she too says that EC is authoritarian.
I remember when you first read this book to us and titled your post "Why you should never marry a Hohenzollern." I guess that's what Amalie titled her letter.
I like how she finishes it, "Let's be real: I probably suck too. [I was raised by Hohenzollerns, after all.]"
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-19 01:42 am (UTC)(link)
it doesn't matter whether AW's posthumous debts are paid a few months earlier or a few months later.
Evidently, when she died 22 years later, her estate was used to pay off his still outstanding debts.
Wasn't Fritz still paying off 1730s debts in the 1760s? *searches* Yeah, to Joseph Wenzel, Prince of Liechtenstein, previous owner of the Antinous statue.
Lol, you guys.
Evidently, when she died 22 years later, her estate was used to pay off his still outstanding debts.
Wasn't Fritz still paying off 1730s debts in the 1760s? *searches* Yeah, to Joseph Wenzel, Prince of Liechtenstein, previous owner of the Antinous statue.
Lol, you guys.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-19 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
* Typing up the chronology, I discovered that FW2's two (non-morganatic) marriages took place on July 14, 1765 and 1769, both at Charlottenburg. Same anniversary and everything.
* Rumors that Ferdinand's youngest kids weren't his--has this come up before?
* Ferdinand's first son, according to English Wikipedia (German wiki doesn't give the full names) is named...Friedrich Heinrich Emil Karl! 1769-1773. (Moral of the story: don't name your kid Beth, Cedric, or Karl Emil. :P)
* Ziebura when Fritz dies: "The mighty star that had held their lives under his spell and had determined their courses, was extinguished."
Blanning when Fritz dies: "The iron band that held them to their labors finally snapped."
Unconscious echo on Blanning's part? I wouldn't be surprised if this line was based on some contemporary account, though.
* Rumors that Ferdinand's youngest kids weren't his--has this come up before?
* Ferdinand's first son, according to English Wikipedia (German wiki doesn't give the full names) is named...Friedrich Heinrich Emil Karl! 1769-1773. (Moral of the story: don't name your kid Beth, Cedric, or Karl Emil. :P)
* Ziebura when Fritz dies: "The mighty star that had held their lives under his spell and had determined their courses, was extinguished."
Blanning when Fritz dies: "The iron band that held them to their labors finally snapped."
Unconscious echo on Blanning's part? I wouldn't be surprised if this line was based on some contemporary account, though.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - Seven Years' War
mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-19 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
Aha! That's good to know, as Lehdnorff is coming up soon on our reading list. :)
I'm caught up to you in reading, and I'm caught up on Wives, though not Wilhelmine, commenting.
26 pages of Wives read today, and 20 of Wilhelmine! I have *one job* this weekend, and that's to read as much German as possible and see where I am on Monday. :)
I see you two updated the fic wishlist with your prompts of choice: woohoo! I shall begin pondering.
26 pages of Wives read today, and 20 of Wilhelmine! I have *one job* this weekend, and that's to read as much German as possible and see where I am on Monday. :)
I see you two updated the fic wishlist with your prompts of choice: woohoo! I shall begin pondering.
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
So am I.
Me too :( That was a terrible story! Why does real life not conform to better storytelling conventions >:(
Maybe she at least got some good sex, Kalckreuth being hot and all? But still this all sucks.
So am I.
Me too :( That was a terrible story! Why does real life not conform to better storytelling conventions >:(
Maybe she at least got some good sex, Kalckreuth being hot and all? But still this all sucks.
You can practically hear him think "if anyone gets to faint at the prospect of Heinrich being wounded, it's me, and I don't do it, plus we all now how things are between you two, so cut the dramatics!"
:D This is why it's funny! I love Lehndorff <3
So I feel like there is something sort of especially terrible about it being his engagement ring that he gave Mina. Not sure why I am fixated on this when the kid handoff thing was obviously way worse -- okay, yeah, probably so I don't have to look as hard at that part :P
:D This is why it's funny! I love Lehndorff <3
So I feel like there is something sort of especially terrible about it being his engagement ring that he gave Mina. Not sure why I am fixated on this when the kid handoff thing was obviously way worse -- okay, yeah, probably so I don't have to look as hard at that part :P
-man, I'm glad that Fritz was nice to Louise. Sigh.
-"Louise Amalie could sense from her own experience what [Mina] was feeling. She forgot her resentment and was friendly towards her." Aw Louise, you really are the best.
-"With regard to his successor, the king asked himself the worried question: \"How can a being who cannot control himself be able to control others?"
("Sire! Half the earth obeys you:
are you yourself then, in your vast States,
the only person you cannot keep in check?"
--mildred, this is something Rodrigo says to Philip in Don Carlo :) )
she later remarked to her loyal friend, Count Lehndorff, that in all the years of their marriage they had only had eight happy days at most.
This is going to be a continual theme, but HEINRICH. YOU ARE THE WORST. I'm glad she had some friends, and that Amalie and EC and Louise and Fritz still liked her after the whole Kalckreuth thing *sigh*
Fritz: Well, I mean, I also got to tick off Heinrich. Win-win!
Lehndorff blamed Kalckreuth for all these twists and turns at the Rheinsberg court and accused the princess and her ladies of having followed his bad advice.
While I don't disagree, this is... definitely very much in character for Lehndorff *pats his head*
Friedrich wrote to his sister Ulrike von Schweden on June 10, 1767: [AW's son] was his father's image, he possessed all his good qualities without having his faults.
I know you guys have told me about this letter before, but IT IS STILL INFURIATING!
-"Louise Amalie could sense from her own experience what [Mina] was feeling. She forgot her resentment and was friendly towards her." Aw Louise, you really are the best.
-"With regard to his successor, the king asked himself the worried question: \"How can a being who cannot control himself be able to control others?"
("Sire! Half the earth obeys you:
are you yourself then, in your vast States,
the only person you cannot keep in check?"
--mildred, this is something Rodrigo says to Philip in Don Carlo :) )
she later remarked to her loyal friend, Count Lehndorff, that in all the years of their marriage they had only had eight happy days at most.
This is going to be a continual theme, but HEINRICH. YOU ARE THE WORST. I'm glad she had some friends, and that Amalie and EC and Louise and Fritz still liked her after the whole Kalckreuth thing *sigh*
Fritz: Well, I mean, I also got to tick off Heinrich. Win-win!
Lehndorff blamed Kalckreuth for all these twists and turns at the Rheinsberg court and accused the princess and her ladies of having followed his bad advice.
While I don't disagree, this is... definitely very much in character for Lehndorff *pats his head*
Friedrich wrote to his sister Ulrike von Schweden on June 10, 1767: [AW's son] was his father's image, he possessed all his good qualities without having his faults.
I know you guys have told me about this letter before, but IT IS STILL INFURIATING!
Of course Hervey doesn't mention that, that might have shown Fritz of Wales in a better light and we can't have that *facepalm*
But it sounds like his father liked music (that is to say, it wasn't a FW-like disapproval of high-falutin' music in general)? Then was it just the cello he didn't like? Stringed instruments?
But it sounds like his father liked music (that is to say, it wasn't a FW-like disapproval of high-falutin' music in general)? Then was it just the cello he didn't like? Stringed instruments?
A sleepless night (no reason: the hotel is lovely) makes for more Hervey, volume 2. To explain some of tihe following passages I have to point out Hervey, whenever he shows up in his own tale as an acting character, writes of himself in the third person, i.e. "Lord Hervey did this" or "then Lord Hervey said to the Queen", etc. A la Caesar in the Gallic Wars. Confusingly, though, he also writes in the first person - i.e. "I heard this from Sir Robert directly" or "I was present when the King said this" etc. I'm not sure whether he wanted his readers to believe a third party - an unnamed historian - was writing these memoirs; after all, he knew they wouldn't and couldn't be published within his own life time, and probably not for some time hereafter. Or maybe it was just a stylistic device, understood by readers of the time; I'm not sure, since none of the other 18th Century memoirs I've read so far employ it. (Certainly not Voltaire's. *g*)
Okay, onwards: G2 keeps irritating his English subjects with visiting Hannover, remember. On one such visit, his English mistress, Lady Sussex, gets married again despite being in her 40s. G2 hears about it from Caroline via letter, drags out his time in Hannover, and comes back with a German (!) mistress, Madame Waldmoden, the ultimate insult. This causes Lord Hervey to muse thusly:
Whilst the late King lived, everybody imagined this Prince loved England and hated Germany ; but from the time of his first journey, after he was King, to Hanover, people began to find, if they had not been deceived in their former opinion, at least they would be so in their xpectations; and that his thoughts, whatever they might have been, were no longer turned either with contempt or dislike to his Electoral dominions.
But after this last journey Hanover had so completed the conquest of his affections, that there was nothing English ever commended in his presence that he did not always show, or pretend to show, was surpassed by something of the same kind in Germany. No English or even French cook could dress a dinner; no English confectioner set out a dessert ; no English player could act ; no English coachman could drive, or
English jockey ride; nor were any English horses fit to be drove or fit to be ridden; no Englishman knew how to come into a room, nor any Englishwoman how to dress herself; nor were there any diversions in England, public or private ; nor any man or woman in England whose conversation was to be borne—the one, as he said, talking of nothing but their dull politics, and the others of nothing but their ugly clothes. Whereas at Hanover all these things were in the utmost perfection: the men were patterns of politeness, bravery, and gallantry; the women of beauty, wit, and entertainment; his troops there were the bravest in the world, his counsellors the wisest, his manufacturers the most ingenious,
his subjects the happiest; and at Hanover, in short, plenty reigned, magnificence resided, arts flourished, diversions abounded, riches flowed, and everything was in the utmost perfection that contributes to make a prince great or a people blessed. (...)
In truth he hated the English, looked upon them all as king-killers and republicans, grudged them their riches as well as their liberty, thought them all overpaid, and said to Lady Sundon one day as she was waiting at dinner, just after he returned from Germany, that he was forced to distribute his favours here verydifferently from the manner in which he bestowed them at Hanover ; /that there he rewarded people for doing
their duty and serving him well, but that here he was obliged to enrich people for being rascals, and buy them not to cut his throat.
The Queen did not always think in a different style of the English, though she kept her thoughts more to herself than the King, as being more prudent, more sensible, and more mistress of her passions ; yet even she could not entirely disguise these sentiments to the observation of those who were perpetually about her, and put her upon subjects that betrayed her into revealing them.
Hervey was a satirist, so I'm taking this a pinch of salt and the awareness that G2 believing some things were better in Hannover would already been taken as Britain bashing by most Brits, given their idea of England as the climax of civilisation. This said, I still find it amusing, and Mildred, if you do get around to writing Fritz in G2's presence, imagine how the Hannover and Germany praise goes down then. :)
Caroline, btw, never goes with G2 to Hannover; she stays because he always makes her regent in his absence. (Never Fritz of Wales.) Which she thoroughly enjoys. Hervey, ever ready to share scandal, can't report one more about Madame W. other than that he can't understand what G2 sees in her, so he turns towards another German lady in G2's entourage and claims one of "Aunt" Melusine's sisters has also been getting it on with not one, but two Georges and Fritz of Wales:
This Madame d'Elitz was a Schulemberg, sister to my Lady Chesterfield—a very handsome lady, though now a little in her decline, with a reat deal of wit, who had had a thousand lovers, and had been catched in bed with a man twenty years ago, and been divorced from her husband upon it. She was said to have been mistress to three generations of the Hanover family — the late King, the present, and the Prince of Wales before he came to England, which was one generation more than the Duchess of Valentinois " (mistress to Henry II.) could boast of in France. The present King had quitted Madame d'Elitz for Madame Walmoden, upon which a quarrel ensued between the two ladies, and the King thereupon had turned Madame d'Elitz out of the palace the year before; just therefore when the King set out for Hanover this year, Madame d'Elitz set out for England, where she now was with her aunt and sister, the Duchess of Kendal and Lady Chesterfield.
Note from our Victorian editor Croker: Hervey is wrong about Diane de Poitiers having slept with Francis I. of France as well as his son Henry II (the one married to Catherine de' Medici), that was slander, and he's probably slandering the third Schulenburg sister as well. He could be right. Anyway, how come we haven't heard of her before?
ETA: Also: didn't Lord Chesterfield help Peter Keith leave Amsterdam hidden as part of his entourage? If Chesterfield was married to a Schulenburg sister, that means he's distantly related to the Kattes, thus also justifying imaginary descendant's name of Philip Stanhope in "Zeithain". Anyway: I propose someone should filk "The Schuyler Sisters" to "The Schulenburg Sisters" /ETA
Speaking of mistresses: G2 makes it known Fritz of Wales should finally tie the knot, and he's found an ideal bride while in Hannover: 17 years old Augusta von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Queen Caroline adds he should ditch the girlfriend with the child she refuses to believe is her son's. Fritz of Wales, who is about to break up with Miss Vane anyway and according to Hervey has been eying another mistress, takes this parental news and commands well for a change and sends his flunky Lord Baltimore to Miss Vane, with a proposal that she should marry Lord Baltimore and get a pension, thus being cared for, but that it would be tactful to his future bride if she and Baltlimore were to travel abroad for a while. The kid, however, should stay here (and he swears he'll continue to take care of it). Miss Vane upon Hervey's advice and using Hervey as ghostwriter fires off an indignant letter that he's breaking her heart and no way will she leave the country her child is in and what kind of thrifty bastard is he anyway? The upshot of this is that the Lord Baltlimore marriage is off the table, Miss Vane gets a larger pension in her own name and doesn't have to leave the country. Alas, she then goes to Bath to enjoy the spa and dies. Little Fitzfrederick also dies with just a week distance. Hervey grudgingly admits Fritz of Wales seemed more distressed about this than anyone had thought him capable of being.
On to Lady Archibald Hamilton, according to Hervey the new mistress of the love rat. (Again, it's worth keeping in mind that the same Hervey who is writing all this managed to juggle his own wife, Miss Vane, Stephen Fox and Fritz of Wales.)
Lady Archibald Hamilton was not young, had never been very pretty, and had lost at least as much of that small share of beauty she once possessed as it is usual for women to do at five-and-thirty, after being the mother of ten children. Her husband, Lord Archibald Hamilton, was a Scotchman, uncle to the Duke of Hamilton, a Lord of the Admiralty, and of so quiet, so secure, and contented
a temper, that he seemed cut out to play the passive character his wife and the Prince had graciously allotted him. His wife was cunning, and had just sense enough to make that cunning useful to her, when employed to work on such a husband as Lord Archibald Hamilton, and such a lover as the Prince of Wales ; and succeeded perfectly well in flattering the first into an opinion of
her virtue, and the latter into an admiration of her beauty and understanding, which she facilitated by the much easier task of making the Prince believe she was entirely captivated by his.
But as there always are some people who doubt of the most notorious intrigues, as well as others who make no doubt of what only themselves believe, so there were some few who thought, or, I rather believe, affected to think, that this commerce between Lady Archibald Hamilton and the Prince was merely platonic, though stronger symptoms of an affaire faite never appeared on any pair than were to be seen between this couple. He saw her often at her own house, where he seemed as welcome to the master as the mistress ; he met her often, too, at her sister's; walked with her day after day for hours together tete-a-tete in a morning in St. James's Park ; and whenever she was at the drawing-room (which was pretty frequently), his behaviour was so remarkable
that his nose and her ear were inseparable(...)
And you thought Voltaire was bitchy about Fritz and Fredersdorf. Lady Archibald Hamilton becomes lady-in-waiting to the new bride, Augusta. Augusta has gotten one of those long distance royal marriages where a substitute gets send and brings the bride home, to which Lord Delaware:
Lord Delaware, if the King chose him to prevent the Prince's having any jealousy of his future bride's affections being purloined on the way by him who was sent to attend her to England, was the properest man his Majesty could have pitched upon ; for, except his white staff and red riband, as Knight of the Bath, I know of nothing belonging to the long, lank, awkward person of Lord Delaware that could attract her eyes ; nor do I believe there could be found in any of the Goth or Yandal courts of Germany a more unpolished ambassador for such an occasion.
Augusta, poor girl, arrives in Britain and throws herself on the ground before the King and Queen, which wins them over for a few days at least. Hervey, however, is not impressed:
She could speak not one word of English, and few of French; and when it was proposed the year before to her mother, when this match was resolved upon, that she should be taught one of these languages, her mother said it must be quite unnecessary, for the Hanover Family having been above twenty years on the throne, to be sure most people in England spoke German (and especially at Court) as often and as well as English. A conjecture so well founded that I believe there were not three natives in England that understood one word of it better than in the reign of Queen Anne.
Hervey, I think that says rather more about British nobility than it does about Augusta's Mom's assumptions.
The Princess was rather tall, and had health and youth enough in her face, joined to a very modest andgood-natured look, to make her countenance not disagreeable; but her person, from being very ill-made, a good deal awry, her arms long, and her motions
awkward, had, in spite of all the finery of jewels and brocade, an ordinary air, which no trappings could cover or exalt.
Now if you think only women who have sex with Fritz of Wales are the objects of Hervey's scorn, you're mistaken. He's just as malicious about the woman who would have married Fritz of Prussia, to wit, Princess Amalie (as her mother calls her) or Emily (as Hervey calls her). The only princess Hervey likes is Princess Caroline, but as for Amalia/Emily/Amalie:
The Queen used to speak to Lord Hervey on this subject with as little reserve when the Princess Caroline was present, as when alone ; but never before the Princess Emily, who had managed her affairs so well, as to have lost entirely the confidence of her mother, without having obtained the friendship of her brother; by trying to make her court by turns to both, she had by turns betrayed both, and at last lost both. Princess Emily had much the least sense, except her brother, of the family, but had for two years much the prettiest person. She was lively, false, and a great liar ; did many ill offices to people, and no good ones; and, for want of prudence, said as many shocking she said disagreeable ones behind their backs. She had as many enemies as acquaintances, for nobody knew her without disliking her.
Lord Hervey was very ill with her : she had first used him ill, to flatter her brother, which of course had made him not use her very well ; and the preference on every occasion he gave her sister, the Princess Caroline, completed their mutual dislike. Princess Caroline had affability without meanness, dignity without pride, cheerfulness without levity, and . prudence without falsehood.
So much for the maybe Queen of Prussia. I should say here she sounds far more amiable in her wiki entry, which is the only other thing I've read about her. Who knows?
Okay, onwards: G2 keeps irritating his English subjects with visiting Hannover, remember. On one such visit, his English mistress, Lady Sussex, gets married again despite being in her 40s. G2 hears about it from Caroline via letter, drags out his time in Hannover, and comes back with a German (!) mistress, Madame Waldmoden, the ultimate insult. This causes Lord Hervey to muse thusly:
Whilst the late King lived, everybody imagined this Prince loved England and hated Germany ; but from the time of his first journey, after he was King, to Hanover, people began to find, if they had not been deceived in their former opinion, at least they would be so in their xpectations; and that his thoughts, whatever they might have been, were no longer turned either with contempt or dislike to his Electoral dominions.
But after this last journey Hanover had so completed the conquest of his affections, that there was nothing English ever commended in his presence that he did not always show, or pretend to show, was surpassed by something of the same kind in Germany. No English or even French cook could dress a dinner; no English confectioner set out a dessert ; no English player could act ; no English coachman could drive, or
English jockey ride; nor were any English horses fit to be drove or fit to be ridden; no Englishman knew how to come into a room, nor any Englishwoman how to dress herself; nor were there any diversions in England, public or private ; nor any man or woman in England whose conversation was to be borne—the one, as he said, talking of nothing but their dull politics, and the others of nothing but their ugly clothes. Whereas at Hanover all these things were in the utmost perfection: the men were patterns of politeness, bravery, and gallantry; the women of beauty, wit, and entertainment; his troops there were the bravest in the world, his counsellors the wisest, his manufacturers the most ingenious,
his subjects the happiest; and at Hanover, in short, plenty reigned, magnificence resided, arts flourished, diversions abounded, riches flowed, and everything was in the utmost perfection that contributes to make a prince great or a people blessed. (...)
In truth he hated the English, looked upon them all as king-killers and republicans, grudged them their riches as well as their liberty, thought them all overpaid, and said to Lady Sundon one day as she was waiting at dinner, just after he returned from Germany, that he was forced to distribute his favours here verydifferently from the manner in which he bestowed them at Hanover ; /that there he rewarded people for doing
their duty and serving him well, but that here he was obliged to enrich people for being rascals, and buy them not to cut his throat.
The Queen did not always think in a different style of the English, though she kept her thoughts more to herself than the King, as being more prudent, more sensible, and more mistress of her passions ; yet even she could not entirely disguise these sentiments to the observation of those who were perpetually about her, and put her upon subjects that betrayed her into revealing them.
Hervey was a satirist, so I'm taking this a pinch of salt and the awareness that G2 believing some things were better in Hannover would already been taken as Britain bashing by most Brits, given their idea of England as the climax of civilisation. This said, I still find it amusing, and Mildred, if you do get around to writing Fritz in G2's presence, imagine how the Hannover and Germany praise goes down then. :)
Caroline, btw, never goes with G2 to Hannover; she stays because he always makes her regent in his absence. (Never Fritz of Wales.) Which she thoroughly enjoys. Hervey, ever ready to share scandal, can't report one more about Madame W. other than that he can't understand what G2 sees in her, so he turns towards another German lady in G2's entourage and claims one of "Aunt" Melusine's sisters has also been getting it on with not one, but two Georges and Fritz of Wales:
This Madame d'Elitz was a Schulemberg, sister to my Lady Chesterfield—a very handsome lady, though now a little in her decline, with a reat deal of wit, who had had a thousand lovers, and had been catched in bed with a man twenty years ago, and been divorced from her husband upon it. She was said to have been mistress to three generations of the Hanover family — the late King, the present, and the Prince of Wales before he came to England, which was one generation more than the Duchess of Valentinois " (mistress to Henry II.) could boast of in France. The present King had quitted Madame d'Elitz for Madame Walmoden, upon which a quarrel ensued between the two ladies, and the King thereupon had turned Madame d'Elitz out of the palace the year before; just therefore when the King set out for Hanover this year, Madame d'Elitz set out for England, where she now was with her aunt and sister, the Duchess of Kendal and Lady Chesterfield.
Note from our Victorian editor Croker: Hervey is wrong about Diane de Poitiers having slept with Francis I. of France as well as his son Henry II (the one married to Catherine de' Medici), that was slander, and he's probably slandering the third Schulenburg sister as well. He could be right. Anyway, how come we haven't heard of her before?
ETA: Also: didn't Lord Chesterfield help Peter Keith leave Amsterdam hidden as part of his entourage? If Chesterfield was married to a Schulenburg sister, that means he's distantly related to the Kattes, thus also justifying imaginary descendant's name of Philip Stanhope in "Zeithain". Anyway: I propose someone should filk "The Schuyler Sisters" to "The Schulenburg Sisters" /ETA
Speaking of mistresses: G2 makes it known Fritz of Wales should finally tie the knot, and he's found an ideal bride while in Hannover: 17 years old Augusta von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Queen Caroline adds he should ditch the girlfriend with the child she refuses to believe is her son's. Fritz of Wales, who is about to break up with Miss Vane anyway and according to Hervey has been eying another mistress, takes this parental news and commands well for a change and sends his flunky Lord Baltimore to Miss Vane, with a proposal that she should marry Lord Baltimore and get a pension, thus being cared for, but that it would be tactful to his future bride if she and Baltlimore were to travel abroad for a while. The kid, however, should stay here (and he swears he'll continue to take care of it). Miss Vane upon Hervey's advice and using Hervey as ghostwriter fires off an indignant letter that he's breaking her heart and no way will she leave the country her child is in and what kind of thrifty bastard is he anyway? The upshot of this is that the Lord Baltlimore marriage is off the table, Miss Vane gets a larger pension in her own name and doesn't have to leave the country. Alas, she then goes to Bath to enjoy the spa and dies. Little Fitzfrederick also dies with just a week distance. Hervey grudgingly admits Fritz of Wales seemed more distressed about this than anyone had thought him capable of being.
On to Lady Archibald Hamilton, according to Hervey the new mistress of the love rat. (Again, it's worth keeping in mind that the same Hervey who is writing all this managed to juggle his own wife, Miss Vane, Stephen Fox and Fritz of Wales.)
Lady Archibald Hamilton was not young, had never been very pretty, and had lost at least as much of that small share of beauty she once possessed as it is usual for women to do at five-and-thirty, after being the mother of ten children. Her husband, Lord Archibald Hamilton, was a Scotchman, uncle to the Duke of Hamilton, a Lord of the Admiralty, and of so quiet, so secure, and contented
a temper, that he seemed cut out to play the passive character his wife and the Prince had graciously allotted him. His wife was cunning, and had just sense enough to make that cunning useful to her, when employed to work on such a husband as Lord Archibald Hamilton, and such a lover as the Prince of Wales ; and succeeded perfectly well in flattering the first into an opinion of
her virtue, and the latter into an admiration of her beauty and understanding, which she facilitated by the much easier task of making the Prince believe she was entirely captivated by his.
But as there always are some people who doubt of the most notorious intrigues, as well as others who make no doubt of what only themselves believe, so there were some few who thought, or, I rather believe, affected to think, that this commerce between Lady Archibald Hamilton and the Prince was merely platonic, though stronger symptoms of an affaire faite never appeared on any pair than were to be seen between this couple. He saw her often at her own house, where he seemed as welcome to the master as the mistress ; he met her often, too, at her sister's; walked with her day after day for hours together tete-a-tete in a morning in St. James's Park ; and whenever she was at the drawing-room (which was pretty frequently), his behaviour was so remarkable
that his nose and her ear were inseparable(...)
And you thought Voltaire was bitchy about Fritz and Fredersdorf. Lady Archibald Hamilton becomes lady-in-waiting to the new bride, Augusta. Augusta has gotten one of those long distance royal marriages where a substitute gets send and brings the bride home, to which Lord Delaware:
Lord Delaware, if the King chose him to prevent the Prince's having any jealousy of his future bride's affections being purloined on the way by him who was sent to attend her to England, was the properest man his Majesty could have pitched upon ; for, except his white staff and red riband, as Knight of the Bath, I know of nothing belonging to the long, lank, awkward person of Lord Delaware that could attract her eyes ; nor do I believe there could be found in any of the Goth or Yandal courts of Germany a more unpolished ambassador for such an occasion.
Augusta, poor girl, arrives in Britain and throws herself on the ground before the King and Queen, which wins them over for a few days at least. Hervey, however, is not impressed:
She could speak not one word of English, and few of French; and when it was proposed the year before to her mother, when this match was resolved upon, that she should be taught one of these languages, her mother said it must be quite unnecessary, for the Hanover Family having been above twenty years on the throne, to be sure most people in England spoke German (and especially at Court) as often and as well as English. A conjecture so well founded that I believe there were not three natives in England that understood one word of it better than in the reign of Queen Anne.
Hervey, I think that says rather more about British nobility than it does about Augusta's Mom's assumptions.
The Princess was rather tall, and had health and youth enough in her face, joined to a very modest andgood-natured look, to make her countenance not disagreeable; but her person, from being very ill-made, a good deal awry, her arms long, and her motions
awkward, had, in spite of all the finery of jewels and brocade, an ordinary air, which no trappings could cover or exalt.
Now if you think only women who have sex with Fritz of Wales are the objects of Hervey's scorn, you're mistaken. He's just as malicious about the woman who would have married Fritz of Prussia, to wit, Princess Amalie (as her mother calls her) or Emily (as Hervey calls her). The only princess Hervey likes is Princess Caroline, but as for Amalia/Emily/Amalie:
The Queen used to speak to Lord Hervey on this subject with as little reserve when the Princess Caroline was present, as when alone ; but never before the Princess Emily, who had managed her affairs so well, as to have lost entirely the confidence of her mother, without having obtained the friendship of her brother; by trying to make her court by turns to both, she had by turns betrayed both, and at last lost both. Princess Emily had much the least sense, except her brother, of the family, but had for two years much the prettiest person. She was lively, false, and a great liar ; did many ill offices to people, and no good ones; and, for want of prudence, said as many shocking she said disagreeable ones behind their backs. She had as many enemies as acquaintances, for nobody knew her without disliking her.
Lord Hervey was very ill with her : she had first used him ill, to flatter her brother, which of course had made him not use her very well ; and the preference on every occasion he gave her sister, the Princess Caroline, completed their mutual dislike. Princess Caroline had affability without meanness, dignity without pride, cheerfulness without levity, and . prudence without falsehood.
So much for the maybe Queen of Prussia. I should say here she sounds far more amiable in her wiki entry, which is the only other thing I've read about her. Who knows?
Edited 2020-09-19 18:43 (UTC)
But for all that Hervey doesn't like G2, he drops the occasional oddly endearing anecdote as well, like the fox hunting dialogue. The Fritz of Wales bashing from him and everyone showing up in these memoirs, though, is absolutely relentless. Our Victorian editor just throws up his hands and says he has no idea just why both parents hated FoW so much even before he joined forces with the opposition and thus gave them cause, even before he arrived in England and was still a youngster in Hannover and according to visitors (including, btw, Hervey on his Grand Tour) an amiable, bright child with a lot of charm.
Now, Fritz of Wales' budget is much less than what his father G2 used to get when he'd been Fritz of Wales, and when this still doesn't change after marriage, he doesn't just keep asking his parents for more, no, he tries to get his budget heightened via parliament. This scheme doesn't work, partly Sir Robert Walpole and Hervey work against it. (Hervey asks for a peerage for Stephen Fox from Walpole given that Stephen did his best to cajole his parliamentary colleagues to side with the King, not the Prince, and for some thank you money for Henry Fox, who did the same.) Meanwhile, FW's rants against Fritz are completely matched by Queen Caroline's words about her son and his attempt to make common cause with MPs:
"My God," says the Queen, " popularity always makes me sick ; but Fritz's popularity makes me vomit. I hear that yesterday, on his side of the house, they talked of the King's being cast away with the same sang-froid as you would talk of a coach being overturned ; and that my good son strutted about as if he had been already King. Did you mind the air with which he came into my drawing-room in the morning, though he does not think fit to honour me with his presence or ennui me with his wife's of a night?"
Events come to a head when Augusta gets pregnant and Caroline tells everyone she thinks Augusta is faking it, and will substitute a bought baby, and then Fritz of Wales refuses to tell his parents when the birth is expected when G2 orders him and Augusta to Hampton Court, and when his wife gets into labor, insists on taking her to St. James. (Which however you look at it was an incredibly selfish jerk move - that drive with a woman in labor must have been hell - but of course Hervey doesn't think all the relentless hate from the rest of the family might have given Fritz of Wales the inspiration of not wanting his parents present at the kid's birth. As mentioned in my Horowitz write up , the baby is a sickly girl which, Caroline says, is the only reason why believes it's Augusta's baby after all. She's nice to Augusta when she visits but doesn't say a word to Fritz of Wales. The rupture between son and parents is now complete. Letters are exchanged. Some courtiers try to mediate, but:
Lord Essex telling, and asking, at the same time, if he should call one of the Ministers, the Queen said, " For what? to give an answer to Fritz ? Does the King want a Minister to tell him what answer he likes to give to his son ? or to call a council for such a letter, like an aifair d'etat?"
In between everything else, an old plan gets revived - separating Hannover and Britain, with giving one to Caroline's and G2's fave William, future Billy the Butcher. Says our editor in a footnote:
George I., in his enmity to George II., entertained some idea of separating the sovereignty of England and Hanover (Coxe^s Walpole, p. 132) ; and we find from Lord Chancellor King's ' Diary,' under the date of June, 1725, " a negotiation had been lately on foot in relation to the two young Princes, Frederick and William. The Prince (George II.) and his wife were for excluding Prince Frederick, but that after the King and the Prince he should be Elector of Hanover, and Prince William King of Great Britain ; but that the King said it would be unjust to do it without Prince Frederick's consent, who was now of an age to judge for himself, and so the matter now stood " (Campbell's ' Chancellors,' iv. 318). Sir Robert Walpole, who communicated this to the Chancellor, added that he had told George I. that " if he did not bring Prince Frederick over in his life-time, he would never set his foot on English ground." This early enmity of his parents to Frederick Lord Campbell cannot explain ; " but the Prince had his revenge by perpetually disturbing the government of his father till, in 1751, the joyful exclamation by George II was uttered, ' Fritz is dead!' "—ib.
Which Hervey, who died in the early 1740s, didn't live to see. (Nor Fritz of Wales as a father even his enemies couldn't bash; FoW raised his children - he had nine all in all - with English as their first language, he gave them all a bit of the garden in his estate they were to garden themselves as they wanted, which started a life long passion in future G2, "Farmer George", and he played with them and encouraged them with music.) What he did live to see where endless "We hate Fritz" parties with the other royals:
The Princess Caroline, who loved her mother and disliked her brother in equal and extreme degrees, was in much the same state of mind as the Queen ; her consideration and regard for her mother making her always adopt the Queen's opinions, as well as share her pleasures and her afflictions. They neither of them made much ceremony of wishing a hundred times a day that the Prince might drop down dead of an apoplexy— the Queen cursing the hour of his birth, and the Princess Caroline declaring she grudged him every hour he continued to breathe ; and reproaching Lord Hervey with his weakness for having ever loved him, and being fool enough to think that he had been ever beloved by him, as well as being so great a dupe as to believe the nauseous beast (those were her words) cared for anybody but his own nauseous self—that he loved anything but money—that he was not the greatest liar
that ever spoke—and would not put one arm about anybody's neck to kiss them, and then stab' them with the other, if he could censored passageShe protested that from the time he had been here six months—so early had she found him out—she had never loved him better or thought better of him than at that moment.'
At this point it must have occurred to Hervey that future readers might doubt how reliable he is re: Fritz of Wales, so he does some self analysis about his motives, in the third person:
The truth is, if his temper was susceptible of provocation, he might, without being capable of feeling long provoked at the same circumstance, have continued long warm in his resentment against the Prince, since scarce a day passed without some new lie the Prince had made of him during the quarrel, as well as some virulent thing he now said of him, being reported to Lord Hervey by the Queen or the Princess Caroline, who both hated the Prince at this time to a degree which cannot be credited or conceived by people who did not hear the names they called him, the character they gave him, the curses they lavished upon him, and the fervour with which they both prayed every day for his death.
It would be endless to endeavour to repeat all the lies Lord Hervey at this time heard the Prince had coined of him, but one or two of the most remarkable I will insert. The Prince told the Queen and all his sisters that Lord Hervey had told him everybody said his Royal Highness was known to have such a partiality for the Princess Eoyal, and to be so incapable of concealing anything from her, that nobody doubted (Note from Editor - lines stricken out in manuscript by grandson).
Another was that Lord Hervey, from the moment he first came about him, had been always endeavouring to give him ill impressions of the Queen and all his sisters ; to blow him up against his father and a hundred times endeavoured to persuade him to
make a party to move for his 100,000?. a-year in Parliament^ as well as brought offers to him from people in the Opposition, and made use of Miss Vane's interest to get them accepted.
I do not relate these things as any justification of Lord Hervey's conduct at this time ; for if personal resentment, and a desire to vex and mortify the Prince,- had any share in his views and counsels at this juncture, I own he is not justifiable, as nothing can justify the meanness of a man of sense desiring, from a principle of revenge, to hurt those by whom he has been injured, further than
self-preservation requires, or the silly received laws of mistaken customary honour enjoin: but take this particular (with regard to the Prince) out of Lord Hervey's character, and I believe it would be impossible to give another instance of the same sort of wrong to anybody in any part of his conduct ; though few people had more enemies, or had reason to be irritated against more people, if being abused is allowed to be a reason.
Yes, Hervey, I'm sure you were the milk of human kindness otherwise. Good grief.
Now, Fritz of Wales' budget is much less than what his father G2 used to get when he'd been Fritz of Wales, and when this still doesn't change after marriage, he doesn't just keep asking his parents for more, no, he tries to get his budget heightened via parliament. This scheme doesn't work, partly Sir Robert Walpole and Hervey work against it. (Hervey asks for a peerage for Stephen Fox from Walpole given that Stephen did his best to cajole his parliamentary colleagues to side with the King, not the Prince, and for some thank you money for Henry Fox, who did the same.) Meanwhile, FW's rants against Fritz are completely matched by Queen Caroline's words about her son and his attempt to make common cause with MPs:
"My God," says the Queen, " popularity always makes me sick ; but Fritz's popularity makes me vomit. I hear that yesterday, on his side of the house, they talked of the King's being cast away with the same sang-froid as you would talk of a coach being overturned ; and that my good son strutted about as if he had been already King. Did you mind the air with which he came into my drawing-room in the morning, though he does not think fit to honour me with his presence or ennui me with his wife's of a night?"
Events come to a head when Augusta gets pregnant and Caroline tells everyone she thinks Augusta is faking it, and will substitute a bought baby, and then Fritz of Wales refuses to tell his parents when the birth is expected when G2 orders him and Augusta to Hampton Court, and when his wife gets into labor, insists on taking her to St. James. (Which however you look at it was an incredibly selfish jerk move - that drive with a woman in labor must have been hell - but of course Hervey doesn't think all the relentless hate from the rest of the family might have given Fritz of Wales the inspiration of not wanting his parents present at the kid's birth. As mentioned in my Horowitz write up , the baby is a sickly girl which, Caroline says, is the only reason why believes it's Augusta's baby after all. She's nice to Augusta when she visits but doesn't say a word to Fritz of Wales. The rupture between son and parents is now complete. Letters are exchanged. Some courtiers try to mediate, but:
Lord Essex telling, and asking, at the same time, if he should call one of the Ministers, the Queen said, " For what? to give an answer to Fritz ? Does the King want a Minister to tell him what answer he likes to give to his son ? or to call a council for such a letter, like an aifair d'etat?"
In between everything else, an old plan gets revived - separating Hannover and Britain, with giving one to Caroline's and G2's fave William, future Billy the Butcher. Says our editor in a footnote:
George I., in his enmity to George II., entertained some idea of separating the sovereignty of England and Hanover (Coxe^s Walpole, p. 132) ; and we find from Lord Chancellor King's ' Diary,' under the date of June, 1725, " a negotiation had been lately on foot in relation to the two young Princes, Frederick and William. The Prince (George II.) and his wife were for excluding Prince Frederick, but that after the King and the Prince he should be Elector of Hanover, and Prince William King of Great Britain ; but that the King said it would be unjust to do it without Prince Frederick's consent, who was now of an age to judge for himself, and so the matter now stood " (Campbell's ' Chancellors,' iv. 318). Sir Robert Walpole, who communicated this to the Chancellor, added that he had told George I. that " if he did not bring Prince Frederick over in his life-time, he would never set his foot on English ground." This early enmity of his parents to Frederick Lord Campbell cannot explain ; " but the Prince had his revenge by perpetually disturbing the government of his father till, in 1751, the joyful exclamation by George II was uttered, ' Fritz is dead!' "—ib.
Which Hervey, who died in the early 1740s, didn't live to see. (Nor Fritz of Wales as a father even his enemies couldn't bash; FoW raised his children - he had nine all in all - with English as their first language, he gave them all a bit of the garden in his estate they were to garden themselves as they wanted, which started a life long passion in future G2, "Farmer George", and he played with them and encouraged them with music.) What he did live to see where endless "We hate Fritz" parties with the other royals:
The Princess Caroline, who loved her mother and disliked her brother in equal and extreme degrees, was in much the same state of mind as the Queen ; her consideration and regard for her mother making her always adopt the Queen's opinions, as well as share her pleasures and her afflictions. They neither of them made much ceremony of wishing a hundred times a day that the Prince might drop down dead of an apoplexy— the Queen cursing the hour of his birth, and the Princess Caroline declaring she grudged him every hour he continued to breathe ; and reproaching Lord Hervey with his weakness for having ever loved him, and being fool enough to think that he had been ever beloved by him, as well as being so great a dupe as to believe the nauseous beast (those were her words) cared for anybody but his own nauseous self—that he loved anything but money—that he was not the greatest liar
that ever spoke—and would not put one arm about anybody's neck to kiss them, and then stab' them with the other, if he could censored passageShe protested that from the time he had been here six months—so early had she found him out—she had never loved him better or thought better of him than at that moment.'
At this point it must have occurred to Hervey that future readers might doubt how reliable he is re: Fritz of Wales, so he does some self analysis about his motives, in the third person:
The truth is, if his temper was susceptible of provocation, he might, without being capable of feeling long provoked at the same circumstance, have continued long warm in his resentment against the Prince, since scarce a day passed without some new lie the Prince had made of him during the quarrel, as well as some virulent thing he now said of him, being reported to Lord Hervey by the Queen or the Princess Caroline, who both hated the Prince at this time to a degree which cannot be credited or conceived by people who did not hear the names they called him, the character they gave him, the curses they lavished upon him, and the fervour with which they both prayed every day for his death.
It would be endless to endeavour to repeat all the lies Lord Hervey at this time heard the Prince had coined of him, but one or two of the most remarkable I will insert. The Prince told the Queen and all his sisters that Lord Hervey had told him everybody said his Royal Highness was known to have such a partiality for the Princess Eoyal, and to be so incapable of concealing anything from her, that nobody doubted (Note from Editor - lines stricken out in manuscript by grandson).
Another was that Lord Hervey, from the moment he first came about him, had been always endeavouring to give him ill impressions of the Queen and all his sisters ; to blow him up against his father and a hundred times endeavoured to persuade him to
make a party to move for his 100,000?. a-year in Parliament^ as well as brought offers to him from people in the Opposition, and made use of Miss Vane's interest to get them accepted.
I do not relate these things as any justification of Lord Hervey's conduct at this time ; for if personal resentment, and a desire to vex and mortify the Prince,- had any share in his views and counsels at this juncture, I own he is not justifiable, as nothing can justify the meanness of a man of sense desiring, from a principle of revenge, to hurt those by whom he has been injured, further than
self-preservation requires, or the silly received laws of mistaken customary honour enjoin: but take this particular (with regard to the Prince) out of Lord Hervey's character, and I believe it would be impossible to give another instance of the same sort of wrong to anybody in any part of his conduct ; though few people had more enemies, or had reason to be irritated against more people, if being abused is allowed to be a reason.
Yes, Hervey, I'm sure you were the milk of human kindness otherwise. Good grief.
Edited 2020-09-19 18:50 (UTC)
Yes, Amalie ending her letter this way is what makes it more than an exercise in venting or even spite, and gave me a clue to her personality.
Lehndorff reports that Amalie and EC had their clashes when locked up together in Magdeburg during the various evacuations, with two main motives - when churchgoing, Amalie went to Reformed service, EC went to Lutheran church "and thus we have a schisma" said Lehndorff. (Remember, the Hohenzollern were Calvinists, not Lutherans, though the majority of their subjects were Lutherans, and so were the Braunschweig in-laws. And point of contention no2. was that Fritz kept asking for Amalie when wanting visitors during the war, never for EC, which was just humiliating. (Note that Heinrich did the same thing - as Ziebura points out, while his wife had to ask repeateadly for her household budget, he was worrying in letters to Ferdinand about his sister, and when visiting Berlin for the first time in years after AW's death, he asked Amalie to meet him ahead of his arrival in Berlin, not Mina.) I wouldn't be surprised if EC emphasizing that SHE was the Queen was connected to this.
Lehndorff reports that Amalie and EC had their clashes when locked up together in Magdeburg during the various evacuations, with two main motives - when churchgoing, Amalie went to Reformed service, EC went to Lutheran church "and thus we have a schisma" said Lehndorff. (Remember, the Hohenzollern were Calvinists, not Lutherans, though the majority of their subjects were Lutherans, and so were the Braunschweig in-laws. And point of contention no2. was that Fritz kept asking for Amalie when wanting visitors during the war, never for EC, which was just humiliating. (Note that Heinrich did the same thing - as Ziebura points out, while his wife had to ask repeateadly for her household budget, he was worrying in letters to Ferdinand about his sister, and when visiting Berlin for the first time in years after AW's death, he asked Amalie to meet him ahead of his arrival in Berlin, not Mina.) I wouldn't be surprised if EC emphasizing that SHE was the Queen was connected to this.
Rumor: it's in Ferdinand's German wiki entry, I think, but from what few mentions I could see in books, it doesn't seem to be based on more than widely shared dislike of his wife, love of gossip and the fact that Ferdinand post 7 Years War never lost the habit of appearing sickly in public. Lehndorff - who doesn't like Mrs. Ferdinand, repeatedly laments in volume 1 that marriage has changed Ferdinand, and much later suspects some of her kids being attentive to Heinrich because they're after the heritage - in the 1799 journal makes zero mention of this, and not in the previous journals, either. I'm assuming if he thought there was something to it he'd have mentioned it. Otoh, despite his dislike of Mrs. Ferdinand, he does mention she fusses over her husband and making sure he's always warm and comfortable when Lehndorff visits in the winter of early 1799, which is decades after they married, and Lehndorff isn't someone she'd want to impress at this point.
Karl Emils are doomed, clearly. At least when born into the Hohenzollern clan.
Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
Karl Emils are doomed, clearly. At least when born into the Hohenzollern clan.
Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
Done! Check the restricted section under "Smith".
Permitted use according to the JSTOR terms of service:
Sharing of portions of Content with other individuals for the purposes of collaboration and discussion (for example, sending an individual Content item to a fellow scholar for the purpose of collaboration on a research project);
Aka, my friend, a German scholar, who is currently studying Lord Hervey and the Hannover family. ;)
Permitted use according to the JSTOR terms of service:
Sharing of portions of Content with other individuals for the purposes of collaboration and discussion (for example, sending an individual Content item to a fellow scholar for the purpose of collaboration on a research project);
Aka, my friend, a German scholar, who is currently studying Lord Hervey and the Hannover family. ;)
If Chesterfield was married to a Schulenburg sister, that means he's distantly related to the Kattes, thus also justifying imaginary descendant's name of Philip Stanhope in "Zeithain"
If my research is correct, it's even crazier than that. I've done my best to organize the convoluted genealogical relationships below.
Act 1
Dramatis Personae
1) Melusine von der Schulenburg, Duchess of Kendal: Related by marriage (but not blood, as far as we can tell), to the Kattes. Called Aunt Melusine by Hans Hermann. Mistress of George I. She and G1 had 3 daughters, (2) - (4) below.
2) Anna Luise von der Schulenburg, Countess of Dölitz: Or "d'Elitz," as Hervey spells it. Oldest daughter of G1 and Melusine. Mistress of G1, G2, and FoW, according to Hervey.
3) Petronella von der Schulenburg: 2nd daughter of G1 and Melusine. Possibly had an affair with visiting Hans Hermann in the 1720s, per a letter from Hans Heinrich to his brother. Married Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield, aka the famous Chesterfield, in 1733.
4) Margarethe Gertrud von Oeynhausen: 3rd daughter of G1 and Melusine. I have no stories about her (yet).
5) Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield: The famous one. Married to Melusine's daughter Petronella. British envoy to the Netherlands in 1730. Helped Peter Keith escape to England.
6) Philip Stanhope: Modern-day protagonist of Zeithain. Fictional descendant of Petronella and Chesterfield, who in reality had no children together.
See also the family tree, which is missing Melusine's other daughters, because at the time I made it, I didn't know that one was of such interest to gossipy sensationalists. ;)
Scene 1
Philip Stanhope is so named because Melusine's daughter Petronella married Lord Chesterfield.
Scene 2
When Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz was a Schulemberg, sister to my Lady Chesterfield," it's because Madame d'Elitz is Melusine's oldest daughter, and Melusine's second daughter, Petronella, is Lady Chesterfield (as of 1733).
Scene 3
If Anna Luise has been sleeping with G1, G2, and FoW, or any combination thereof, those are her father, half-brother, and half-nephew. That's one generation more (that I know of) than Countess Orzelska, supposed lover of her father and half-brother!
Act 2
Dramatis Personae
7) Gertrud von der Schulenberg: Sister of Melusine. Wife of Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg, who is clearly related to her, although how closely, I can't say. Adoptive mother of (2) - (3), Anna Luise and Petronella.
8) Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg: Married to Melusine's sister. Related to his wife somehow. Adoptive father of Melusine's two oldest children by G1.
Scene 1
You might have been lured into thinking that Anna Luise and Petronella are von der Schulenbergs because their mother Melusine was a von der Schulenberg and they were illegitimate, but no, that would be too easy.
The reason Anna Luise (2) and Petronella (3) are von der Schulenbergs, while their younger sister (4) is not, is that the first two were adopted by their mother's sister, Aunt Gertrud, and it so happens that Aunt Gertrud had married a relative by the same last name. Whereas (4) was adopted by a *different* sister of Melusine, who had married a different man, and thus had a different last name.
Scene 2
So when Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz set out for England, where she now was with her aunt and sister, the Duchess of Kendal and Lady Chesterfield," it's because her aunt, the Duchess of Kendal, is actually her mother (you know, like all the popes and their "nephews"), and her adoptive mother is her real mother's sister.
So I'm speculating that Hervey thinks Madame d'Elitz is actually the daughter of Melusine's sister and *not* the daughter of G1 and Melusine, otherwise we'd be hearing a lot more about supposed incest? Or could that be the product of grandson + editor bowdlerization?
I can't give you a genealogical visual here, but I might make one up at some point, back pain permitting. Because wow. ;)
If my research is correct, it's even crazier than that. I've done my best to organize the convoluted genealogical relationships below.
Act 1
Dramatis Personae
1) Melusine von der Schulenburg, Duchess of Kendal: Related by marriage (but not blood, as far as we can tell), to the Kattes. Called Aunt Melusine by Hans Hermann. Mistress of George I. She and G1 had 3 daughters, (2) - (4) below.
2) Anna Luise von der Schulenburg, Countess of Dölitz: Or "d'Elitz," as Hervey spells it. Oldest daughter of G1 and Melusine. Mistress of G1, G2, and FoW, according to Hervey.
3) Petronella von der Schulenburg: 2nd daughter of G1 and Melusine. Possibly had an affair with visiting Hans Hermann in the 1720s, per a letter from Hans Heinrich to his brother. Married Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield, aka the famous Chesterfield, in 1733.
4) Margarethe Gertrud von Oeynhausen: 3rd daughter of G1 and Melusine. I have no stories about her (yet).
5) Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield: The famous one. Married to Melusine's daughter Petronella. British envoy to the Netherlands in 1730. Helped Peter Keith escape to England.
6) Philip Stanhope: Modern-day protagonist of Zeithain. Fictional descendant of Petronella and Chesterfield, who in reality had no children together.
See also the family tree, which is missing Melusine's other daughters, because at the time I made it, I didn't know that one was of such interest to gossipy sensationalists. ;)
Scene 1
Philip Stanhope is so named because Melusine's daughter Petronella married Lord Chesterfield.
Scene 2
When Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz was a Schulemberg, sister to my Lady Chesterfield," it's because Madame d'Elitz is Melusine's oldest daughter, and Melusine's second daughter, Petronella, is Lady Chesterfield (as of 1733).
Scene 3
If Anna Luise has been sleeping with G1, G2, and FoW, or any combination thereof, those are her father, half-brother, and half-nephew. That's one generation more (that I know of) than Countess Orzelska, supposed lover of her father and half-brother!
Act 2
Dramatis Personae
7) Gertrud von der Schulenberg: Sister of Melusine. Wife of Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg, who is clearly related to her, although how closely, I can't say. Adoptive mother of (2) - (3), Anna Luise and Petronella.
8) Friedrich Achaz von der Schulenburg: Married to Melusine's sister. Related to his wife somehow. Adoptive father of Melusine's two oldest children by G1.
Scene 1
You might have been lured into thinking that Anna Luise and Petronella are von der Schulenbergs because their mother Melusine was a von der Schulenberg and they were illegitimate, but no, that would be too easy.
The reason Anna Luise (2) and Petronella (3) are von der Schulenbergs, while their younger sister (4) is not, is that the first two were adopted by their mother's sister, Aunt Gertrud, and it so happens that Aunt Gertrud had married a relative by the same last name. Whereas (4) was adopted by a *different* sister of Melusine, who had married a different man, and thus had a different last name.
Scene 2
So when Hervey writes, "Madame d'Elitz set out for England, where she now was with her aunt and sister, the Duchess of Kendal and Lady Chesterfield," it's because her aunt, the Duchess of Kendal, is actually her mother (you know, like all the popes and their "nephews"), and her adoptive mother is her real mother's sister.
So I'm speculating that Hervey thinks Madame d'Elitz is actually the daughter of Melusine's sister and *not* the daughter of G1 and Melusine, otherwise we'd be hearing a lot more about supposed incest? Or could that be the product of grandson + editor bowdlerization?
I can't give you a genealogical visual here, but I might make one up at some point, back pain permitting. Because wow. ;)
Edited 2020-09-20 02:33 (UTC)
50 pages of Wilhlemine memoirs!
There's only a few pages of Wives left, so let me know when you've done it, and I'll catch up the following day. Meanwhile, I'm just plowing ahead with Wilhelmine. :)
There's only a few pages of Wives left, so let me know when you've done it, and I'll catch up the following day. Meanwhile, I'm just plowing ahead with Wilhelmine. :)
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