Macaulay is a fan of MT, but not an uncritical one: Her situation and her personal qualities were such as might be expected to move the mind of any generous man to pity, admiration, and chivalrous tenderness. She was in her twenty-fourth year. Her form was majestic, her features beautiful, her countenance sweet and animated, her voice musical, her deportment gracious and dignified. In all domestic relations she was without reproach. She was married to a husband whom she loved, and was on the point of giving birth to a child when death deprived her of her father. The loss of a parent and the new cares of the empire were too much for her in the delicate state of her health. Her spirits were depressed and her cheek lost its bloom.
In the midst of distress and peril she had given birth to a son, afterwards the Emperor Joseph the Second. Scarcely had she risen from her couch, when she hastened to Pressburg. There, in the sight of an innumerable multitude, she was crowned with the crown and robed with the robe of St. Stephen. No spectator could refrain his tears when the beautiful young mother, still weak from child bearing, rode, after the fashion of her fathers, up the Mount of Defiance, unsheathed the ancient sword of state, shook it towards north and south, east and west and, with a glow on her pale face, challenged the four corners of the world to dispute her rights and those of her boy. At the first sitting of the Diet she appeared clad in deep mourning for her father, and in pathetic and dignified words implored her people to support her just cause. Magnates and deputies sprang up, half drew their sabers, and with eager voices vowed to stand by her with their lives and fortunes. Till then her firmness had never once forsaken her before the public eye, but at that shout she sank down upon her throne, and wept aloud. MT plotting the Diplomatic Revolution:
The Empress-Queen had the faults as well as the virtues which are connected with quick sensibility and a high spirit. There was no peril which she was not ready to brave, no calamity which she was not ready to bring on her subjects, or on the whole human race, if only she might once taste the sweetness of a complete revenge. Revenge, too, presented itself to her narrow and superstitious mind in the guise of duty. Silesia had been wrested not only from the house of Austria, but from the Church of Rome. The conqueror had, indeed, permitted his new subjects to worship God after their own fashion; but this was not enough. To bigotry it seemed an in tolerable hardship that the Catholic Church, having long enjoyed ascendency, should be compelled to content itself with equality.
To recover Silesia, to humble the dynasty of Hohenzollern to the dust, was the great object of her life. She toiled during many years for this end, with zeal as indefatigable as that which the poet ascribes to the stately goddess who tired out her immortal horses in the work of raising the nations against Troy, and who offered to give up to destruction her darling Sparta and Mycenae, if only she might once see the smbke going up from the palace of Priam. With even such a spirit did the proud Austrian Juno strive to array against her foe a coalition such as Europe had never seen. Nothing would content her but that the whole civilized world, from the White Sea to the Adriatic, from the Bay of Biscay to the pastures of the wild horses of Tanais, should be combined in arms against one petty state.
She was married to a husband whom she loved, and was on the point of giving birth to a child when death deprived her of her father. The loss of a parent and the new cares of the empire were too much for her in the delicate state of her health. Her spirits were depressed and her cheek lost its bloom.
MT: I was four months pregnant when the Solomon of the North invaded, and you better believe I didn't lie down for the remaining five. Delicate state of my health nothing. Ask my ministers about my attitude re: pregnancy, work and vacation. Also I wasn't depressed, I was furious.
Lady Mary's biographer: "All of Vienna trembled at the thought of Frederick and his army - all but Maria Theresa, 23, pregnant and indomitable."
Revenge, too, presented itself to her narrow and superstitious mind in the guise of duty.
I object to "narrow mind", especially from someone who saw it as Britain's "duty" to govern other nations, but the basic argument I can agree with.
With even such a spirit did the proud Austrian Juno strive to array against her foe a coalition such as Europe had never seen. Nothing would content her but that the whole civilized world, from the White Sea to the Adriatic, from the Bay of Biscay to the pastures of the wild horses of Tanais, should be combined in arms against one petty state.
Italian states, no-occupied Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark: Excuse us?
Spain: We also didn't do anything, other than marrying Isabella to Joseph.
Ghosts of a previous century: this gentleman doesn't seem to be familiar with the 30 Years War at all.
Lady Mary: It might be a while till I can do a proper write up, but I couldn't resist and read the biography in the last few nights when I couldn't sleep. Insomnia: good for reading. for now, have this tasty morsel: in 1756, i.e.years and years after their last (bad) meeting at Turin, it's actually Algarotti who contacts Lady Mary (still living the expatriate life in Italy) and wants to be friends. They actually manage it this time, not least because she no longer has romantic expectations. Otoh, she's not above making the following quip, writing home to England and describing how everyone is doing to mutual aquaintances in 1759: ...and Algarotti is busy composing a panegyric to whoever comes out on top in this war...
Tsk. Do we think Algarotti would have written an ode to MT had she won?
I'm sorry you have insomnia, but I'm glad it's at least good for reading for you? It's the opposite for me: sleep deprivation wrecks my concentration.
I look forward to your write-up whenever you have time.
Also, looking through old Lady Mary comments, I found you saying, "Really must read a proper biography of hers" back in February. I'm glad this was on your wishlist as well, and many thanks to cahn for splitting the costs!
and Algarotti is busy composing a panegyric to whoever comes out on top in this war...
OH, ALGAROTTI, never change. :PP
Do we think Algarotti would have written an ode to MT had she won?
([That swan quote] is from when Algarotti has hightailed it out of Prussia for the first time because he‘s tired of waiting around for Fritz to conquer Silesia and instead becomes August III.‘s art collector in Dresden. While also designing porcellain figurines for MT‘s table decoration at least once, as I‘ve discovered through the dissertation about him, and hoping she‘ll ask him for more.
So yes, I believe it. :P Algarotti's letters to Fritz post-amicable breakup read like he's trying to stay on good terms, not like someone who's hugely invested in the outcomes of Fritz's wars, which he never had much patience for.
What I want to know, Algarotti, is: where's the ode? Fritz won, now pony up. ;)
So either there's a panegyric that we need to find, or Algarotti, who died only a year after the end of the war, was prevented by his health from finishing it.
Algarotti: Geez, the war wasn't supposed to take this long. Fritz: You're telling me!
What I want to know, Algarotti, is: where's the ode? Fritz won, now pony up. ;)
See, in fiction I would have let him write two odes, just in case, one to Fritz and one to MT, and then by accident mail them to the respective wrong recipient.
MT: gets the one with praise for the lone eagle, complete with homoerotic banter Fritz: gets the one with praise for the Juno of the Alps, the Mother of Europe surely in need of a tasteful art collector now that peace has been restored.
As luck would have it, I came across a long review of Isabel Grundy's biography which is also a good write-up of Lady Mary's life, so until I've written mine, have this one.
The biography also alerted me to these two sketches of Algarotti by Jonathan Richardson during that time in England when both Lady Mary and Hervey fell for him. He does look pretty dishy:
Here's another tasty tidbit, from when Algarotti and Lady Mary met in Turin and that was that for many years until he himself contacted her again: The recent context ofLady Mary's waiting and of Algarotti's pursuing other goals, both sexual and careerist , might lead one to expect that he rejected her expeditiously even if not unkindly. A newly noticed clue to their meeting is a poem lodged in Lady Mary's copy of Marie Madeleine de La Fayette's La Princesse de Clèves. This novel ( about a married woman who heroically resists illicit love) dated from 1678 , but this was a new edition, printed at Paris in 1741. Pinned inside it --probably by the owner - is a scrap of paper bearing fourteen lines of Italian verse in Algarotti's hand. The poem is clearly original and occasional. It essays a definition of love : learnedly, mock -scientifically, personally. It opens , ' True love is , my fair lady, if you don't know it — myself I learned it from you - the child of who knows what ...' It ends , ' True love , Maria, is what one guesses it to be.'
See, in fiction I would have let him write two odes, just in case, one to Fritz and one to MT, and then by accident mail them to the respective wrong recipient.
OMG. That would be so awesome!
I hadn't see the first sketch, thank you!
What are you playing at, Algarotti?
Beats me. Is the whole poem given?
If I read nothing else, I do need to read the Algarotti chapter (and subsequent Algarotti mentions) at some point.
I also meant to say in the other comment that I'm glad they managed to be friends in the last few years of their lives. Especially since those unrequited love letters I summarized a while back are so painful. :/
No, the whole poem isn't given, just what I quoted to you.
Painful: I know what you mean. It reminded me of Charlotte Bronte's letter to her Belgian professor. In both cases, you have someone who just isn't romantically interested, and a smart, passionate woman basically throwing herself at his feet again and again. Mind you, neither Monsieur Heger in Charlotte's case nor Algarotti in Lady Mary's is at fault for being unable to return those feelings, but Monsieur Heger at least never flirted with her and made it very clear from the get go that he wasn't available. Algarotti, for all that he did send plenty of "not just into you" signals, at least seems to have done some flirting, if that poem is anything to go by, and of course he accepted her money when it suited him. BTW, the Hervey biography ends thusly, after our main character is dead, in an "where are they now?" epilogue about the rest of the cast:
Lady Mary, after her four-year sojourn in Avignon , settled in the Venetian province of Brescia ; and in 1756 she moved to Venice and resumed her correspondence with Algarotti, this time as a witty bel esprit instead of a lovesick matron . “When we meet,' she wrote to him in 1758 (four years before her own death ), ‘the Memory of Lord Hervey shall be celebrated ; his Gentle Shade will be pleas'd in Elysium with our Gratitude . I am insensible to every thing but the remembrance of those few Freinds that have been dear to me.' Perhaps, then, Hervey enjoys eternity in the company of the enchanting Algarotti and the witty Lady Mary.
Last line of the biography. Leaving aside the part where this might indeed be Hervey's idea of paradise, and even Lady Mary's, but probably not Algarotti's, it's a neat note to go out on. Both Halsband and Grundy agree that the Lady Mary & Lord Hervey friendship was one of the most important in their respective lives to them. It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
It reminded me of Charlotte Bronte's letter to her Belgian professor. In both cases, you have someone who just isn't romantically interested, and a smart, passionate woman basically throwing herself at his feet again and again.
Oof, yeah. I haven't read them in full, but the excerpts I have are painful enough.
Have you read The Bronte Myth? If not, you might find it interesting.
Monsieur Heger at least never flirted with her and made it very clear from the get go that he wasn't available. Algarotti, for all that he did send plenty of "not just into you" signals, at least seems to have done some flirting, if that poem is anything to go by, and of course he accepted her money when it suited him.
Yeah. :/ I can excuse Algarotti the initial flirting, as I don't think he could have predicted she would fall head over heels so quickly, enduringly, and hopelessly, but once he realized what was going on, he really should have been more careful not to lead her on.
Leaving aside the part where this might indeed be Hervey's idea of paradise, and even Lady Mary's, but probably not Algarotti's, it's a neat note to go out on.
Agreed on both counts.
It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
I too am glad they were able to hang onto their friendship. Especially since the relationship with Algarotti wasn't worth losing an important friendship over for either of them, not even Hervey, who "won".
It is really great so far, both very readable and you can tell that it's deeply embedded in actual history. Which I would have expected from a rec from you :D
(Also, being unlike you and novels being easier for me than nonfic, it's good rest from doing Ziebura, whom I love but which is heavier going!)
Oh, good, I'm glad you're enjoying it! (Lol, especially since I apparently recced it to you practically every April and September since 2018, according to Gmail comment notifications. I would hate for it to be a dud.)
I not only find it readable, but it makes me feel completely immersed in the sheer passion and intensity of the characters' personalities. I would have liked more Anne, but it does do a good job of acknowledging her hidden steel, as well as Charlotte's discomfort with it.
I'm also glad it's providing a much needed break in 18th century history. :)
By Lucasta Miller? Yes, I did, and agree it's very interesting. And occasionally darkly hilarious, like the descriptions of the early Hollywood movie where Charlotte ends up in a love triangle with Emily and the Reverend Arthur Nichols...
Especially since the relationship with Algarotti wasn't worth losing an important friendship over for either of them, not even Hervey, who "won".
Indeed. They were among each other's favourite people and loyal through a great number of ordeals (among other things, being attacked by the foremost English poet of their age, Alexander Pope, who first praised Lady Mary to the skies and then turned against her - whether or not it was because he finally did dare a pass and she laughed at him is debated - with a vengeance), and it would have been a shame to lose this over the most fickle of swans. Something remarkable: Lady Mary got attacked not just by Pope but later Horace Walpole wiht every accusation misogyny can inspire, including, of course, sexual licence. And yet neither of them when accusing her of having lovers, including younger lovers, names Algarotti. Her unrequited love for him and Algarotti ending up with Hervey (for a while) would have been a gift to satirists hating both her and Hervey. And Algarotti was such a prominent figure at that point: the story would have been eaten up with relish by a wide audience, especially since it ended up with Lady Mary humiliated. And yet - neither Pope, who accuses Lady Mary of "poxing her lovers" (which is a nasty pun on her inoculation work against small pox, mixing it with the accusation of inflicting STD) nor Walpole, who when she returned near the end of her life to die in England said she shold be quaranteened because she was sure to be so dirty, ever caught wind of the Algarotti situation. Which must mean that both Hervey (who usually loved to gossip) and Algarotti kept absolutely mum.
By Lucasta Miller? Yes, I did, and agree it's very interesting.
Yep, that's the one. I figured if you liked Hahn's account of the evolving historiography of Fritz, you'd like the same being done with the Brontes, especially with an eye toward methodology. I'm glad I read Miller *before* I read Gaskell. Miller may not be right in all of her conclusions, but she at least gets you thinking critically.
it would have been a shame to lose this over the most fickle of swans
Indeed, and I love the way you phrased this.
Which must mean that both Hervey (who usually loved to gossip) and Algarotti kept absolutely mum.
That is really interesting, and good for them! Algarotti had better keep mum *frowny face*, but good for Hervey, rival love interest yet loyal friend.
My first book on the Brontes was the sibling biography by Elsemarie Maletzke, who also translated a selection of the Angria and Gondal poems and novellas into German, and while paying respect to all the original research Mrs. Gaskell did back in the day points out her flaws as a biographer already. I also, years later, read Juliet Barker's magnum opus, and she's really taking up a Koser to Catt position re: Mrs. G, see also quotes here.
Since I also had read a lot on and about Sylvia Path and Ted Hughes (who was born none too far from Haworth) by the time I came across Lucasta Miller, the part where she she deals with Plath and Hughs and the Bronte myth was of particular interest back then.
That was a very interesting write-up, thanks for the link. I had run across Barker's work, but couldn't tell from the reviews if it was worth the buy. I'll put it on my someday list, then.
One nice thing about Dark Quartet (and its sequel), published in the 1970s, is it includes most of the things in the italicized paragraph that Gaskell is taken to task for not including. Some of the anecdotes it includes are called out by Miller as unsupported or even contradicted by the evidence, but for a work of fiction, I have no problem with that.
It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
This makes me happy too :D Yay friendship, I say with Heinrich :D (As opposed to love triangles, for sure!)
See, in fiction I would have let him write two odes, just in case, one to Fritz and one to MT, and then by accident mail them to the respective wrong recipient.
MT: gets the one with praise for the lone eagle, complete with homoerotic banter Fritz: gets the one with praise for the Juno of the Alps, the Mother of Europe surely in need of a tasteful art collector now that peace has been restored.
Do you realise one would then have to compose fake Algarotti odes to MT and Fritz respectively? To quote from? In overblown 18th century style?
As for the reactions:
MT: ...So now he's forwarding his fanmail to me? Is this supposed to be a new humiliation tactic? And what does this "reams and rears" and "Your pushes, forward and divine" stuff mean? FS: Trust me, darling, you don't want to know.
The loss of a parent and the new cares of the empire were too much for her in the delicate state of her health.
WHAT I was with you until then, Macaulay!
Huh. So is he right about Catholicism being a major cause of MT wanting Silesia back? I'd always thought that she wanted it back because, well, it used to be hers.
As you know, I think MT telling herself that God was with her and wants her to take back Silesia was a thing, and also that this was rationalizing on her part, i.e. what she wanted to believe. (Though it was never her primary argument. This was always that Silesia was hers by right, and Fritz had stolen it like the gangster he was.) If, say, the very Catholic King of France had taken Silesia in the way Fritz did, she'd been after it as well. Proof: the Wittelsbach rival Emperor was a staunch Catholic as well. This did make MT inclined to leave him her territories, as opposed to counterattacking and taking Bavaria (thanks, Austrian Trenck, you ruthless bastard), until his son acknwowledged her, well, FS' claim as Emperor.
However, Macaulay is writing as a 19th century freethinking Protestant Brit telling his readers why England was totally on the right side in this way. MT as a fanatic Catholic wanting Silesia for the faith fits in with this narrative.
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Re: Macaulay - MT
Her situation and her personal qualities were such as might be expected to move the mind of any generous man to pity, admiration, and chivalrous tenderness. She was in her twenty-fourth year. Her form was majestic, her features beautiful, her countenance sweet and animated, her voice musical, her deportment gracious and dignified. In all domestic relations she was without reproach. She was married to a husband whom she loved, and was on the point of giving birth to a child when death deprived her of her father. The loss of a parent and the new cares of the empire were too much for her in the delicate state of her health. Her spirits were depressed and her cheek lost its bloom.
In the midst of distress and peril she had given birth to a son, afterwards the Emperor Joseph the Second. Scarcely had she risen from her couch, when she hastened to Pressburg. There, in the sight of an innumerable multitude, she was crowned with the crown and robed with the robe of St. Stephen. No spectator could refrain his tears when the beautiful young mother, still weak from child bearing, rode, after the fashion of her fathers, up the Mount of Defiance, unsheathed the ancient sword of state, shook it towards north and south, east and west and, with a glow on her pale face, challenged the four corners of the world to dispute her rights and those of her boy. At the first sitting of the Diet she appeared clad in deep mourning for her father, and in pathetic and dignified words implored her people to support her just cause. Magnates and deputies sprang up, half drew their sabers, and with eager voices vowed to stand by her with their lives and fortunes. Till then her firmness had never once forsaken her before the public eye, but at that shout she sank down upon her throne, and wept aloud.
MT plotting the Diplomatic Revolution:
The Empress-Queen had the faults as well as the virtues which are connected with quick sensibility and a high spirit. There was no peril which she was not ready to brave, no calamity which she was not ready to bring on her subjects, or on the whole human race, if only she might once taste the sweetness of a complete revenge. Revenge, too, presented itself to her narrow and superstitious mind in the guise of duty. Silesia had been wrested not only from the house of Austria, but from the Church of Rome. The conqueror had, indeed, permitted his new subjects to worship God after their own fashion; but this was not enough. To bigotry it seemed an in tolerable hardship that the Catholic Church, having long enjoyed ascendency, should be compelled to content itself with equality.
To recover Silesia, to humble the dynasty of Hohenzollern to the dust, was the great object of her life. She toiled during many years for this end, with zeal as indefatigable as that which the poet ascribes to the stately goddess who tired out her immortal horses in the work of raising the nations against Troy, and who offered to give up to destruction her darling Sparta and Mycenae, if only she might once see the smbke going up from the palace of Priam. With even such a spirit did the proud Austrian Juno strive to array against her foe a coalition such as Europe had never seen. Nothing would content her but that the whole civilized world, from the White Sea to the Adriatic, from the Bay of Biscay to the pastures of the wild horses of Tanais, should be combined in arms against one petty state.
Re: Macaulay - MT
MT: I was four months pregnant when the Solomon of the North invaded, and you better believe I didn't lie down for the remaining five. Delicate state of my health nothing. Ask my ministers about my attitude re: pregnancy, work and vacation. Also I wasn't depressed, I was furious.
Lady Mary's biographer: "All of Vienna trembled at the thought of Frederick and his army - all but Maria Theresa, 23, pregnant and indomitable."
Revenge, too, presented itself to her narrow and superstitious mind in the guise of duty.
I object to "narrow mind", especially from someone who saw it as Britain's "duty" to govern other nations, but the basic argument I can agree with.
With even such a spirit did the proud Austrian Juno strive to array against her foe a coalition such as Europe had never seen. Nothing would content her but that the whole civilized world, from the White Sea to the Adriatic, from the Bay of Biscay to the pastures of the wild horses of Tanais, should be combined in arms against one petty state.
Italian states, no-occupied Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark: Excuse us?
Spain: We also didn't do anything, other than marrying Isabella to Joseph.
Ghosts of a previous century: this gentleman doesn't seem to be familiar with the 30 Years War at all.
Re: Macaulay - MT
Haha, yeeeep. The real MT is far too threatening for this man, she needs to be delicate and pitiable to be acceptable as a war-waging woman.
Lady Mary's biographer
You're reading it already? Of course you are! You're this far along already?! *bows in homage*
I miss being able to read like that. :/ One day!
Ghosts of a previous century: this gentleman doesn't seem to be familiar with the 30 Years War at all.
*snort*
Re: Macaulay - MT
Tsk. Do we think Algarotti would have written an ode to MT had she won?
Re: Macaulay - MT
I look forward to your write-up whenever you have time.
Also, looking through old Lady Mary comments, I found you saying, "Really must read a proper biography of hers" back in February. I'm glad this was on your wishlist as well, and many thanks to
and Algarotti is busy composing a panegyric to whoever comes out on top in this war...
OH, ALGAROTTI, never change. :PP
Do we think Algarotti would have written an ode to MT had she won?
Well, to quote Fritz...
Oh most fickle and lightest swan in the world!
Or, to quote
([That swan quote] is from when Algarotti has hightailed it out of Prussia for the first time because he‘s tired of waiting around for Fritz to conquer Silesia and instead becomes August III.‘s art collector in Dresden. While also designing porcellain figurines for MT‘s table decoration at least once, as I‘ve discovered through the dissertation about him, and hoping she‘ll ask him for more.
So yes, I believe it. :P Algarotti's letters to Fritz post-amicable breakup read like he's trying to stay on good terms, not like someone who's hugely invested in the outcomes of Fritz's wars, which he never had much patience for.
What I want to know, Algarotti, is: where's the ode? Fritz won, now pony up. ;)
So either there's a panegyric that we need to find, or Algarotti, who died only a year after the end of the war, was prevented by his health from finishing it.
Algarotti: Geez, the war wasn't supposed to take this long.
Fritz: You're telling me!
Algarotti
See, in fiction I would have let him write two odes, just in case, one to Fritz and one to MT, and then by accident mail them to the respective wrong recipient.
MT: gets the one with praise for the lone eagle, complete with homoerotic banter
Fritz: gets the one with praise for the Juno of the Alps, the Mother of Europe surely in need of a tasteful art collector now that peace has been restored.
As luck would have it, I came across a long review of Isabel Grundy's biography which is also a good write-up of Lady Mary's life, so until I've written mine, have this one.
The biography also alerted me to these two sketches of Algarotti by Jonathan Richardson during that time in England when both Lady Mary and Hervey fell for him. He does look pretty dishy:
Here's another tasty tidbit, from when Algarotti and Lady Mary met in Turin and that was that for many years until he himself contacted her again:
The recent context ofLady Mary's waiting and of Algarotti's pursuing other goals, both sexual and careerist , might lead one to expect that he rejected her expeditiously even if not unkindly.
A newly noticed clue to their meeting is a poem lodged in Lady Mary's copy of Marie Madeleine de La Fayette's La Princesse de Clèves. This novel ( about a married woman who heroically resists illicit love) dated from 1678 , but this was a new edition, printed at Paris in 1741. Pinned inside it --probably by the owner - is a scrap of paper bearing fourteen lines of Italian verse in Algarotti's hand. The poem is clearly original and occasional. It essays a definition of love : learnedly, mock -scientifically, personally. It opens , ' True love is , my fair lady, if you don't know it — myself I learned it from you - the child of who knows what ...' It ends , ' True love , Maria, is what one guesses it to be.'
What are you playing at, Algarotti?
Re: Algarotti
OMG. That would be so awesome!
I hadn't see the first sketch, thank you!
What are you playing at, Algarotti?
Beats me. Is the whole poem given?
If I read nothing else, I do need to read the Algarotti chapter (and subsequent Algarotti mentions) at some point.
I also meant to say in the other comment that I'm glad they managed to be friends in the last few years of their lives. Especially since those unrequited love letters I summarized a while back are so painful. :/
Re: Algarotti
Painful: I know what you mean. It reminded me of Charlotte Bronte's letter to her Belgian professor. In both cases, you have someone who just isn't romantically interested, and a smart, passionate woman basically throwing herself at his feet again and again. Mind you, neither Monsieur Heger in Charlotte's case nor Algarotti in Lady Mary's is at fault for being unable to return those feelings, but Monsieur Heger at least never flirted with her and made it very clear from the get go that he wasn't available. Algarotti, for all that he did send plenty of "not just into you" signals, at least seems to have done some flirting, if that poem is anything to go by, and of course he accepted her money when it suited him. BTW, the Hervey biography ends thusly, after our main character is dead, in an "where are they now?" epilogue about the rest of the cast:
Lady Mary, after her four-year sojourn in Avignon , settled in the Venetian province of Brescia ; and in 1756 she moved to Venice and resumed her correspondence with Algarotti, this time as a witty bel esprit instead of a lovesick matron . “When we meet,' she wrote to him in 1758 (four years before her own death ), ‘the Memory of Lord Hervey shall be celebrated ; his Gentle Shade will be pleas'd in Elysium with our Gratitude . I am insensible to every thing but the remembrance of those few Freinds that have been dear to me.' Perhaps, then, Hervey enjoys eternity in the company of the enchanting Algarotti and the witty Lady Mary.
Last line of the biography. Leaving aside the part where this might indeed be Hervey's idea of paradise, and even Lady Mary's, but probably not Algarotti's, it's a neat note to go out on. Both Halsband and Grundy agree that the Lady Mary & Lord Hervey friendship was one of the most important in their respective lives to them. It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
Re: Algarotti
Oof, yeah. I haven't read them in full, but the excerpts I have are painful enough.
Have you read The Bronte Myth? If not, you might find it interesting.
(
Monsieur Heger at least never flirted with her and made it very clear from the get go that he wasn't available. Algarotti, for all that he did send plenty of "not just into you" signals, at least seems to have done some flirting, if that poem is anything to go by, and of course he accepted her money when it suited him.
Yeah. :/ I can excuse Algarotti the initial flirting, as I don't think he could have predicted she would fall head over heels so quickly, enduringly, and hopelessly, but once he realized what was going on, he really should have been more careful not to lead her on.
Leaving aside the part where this might indeed be Hervey's idea of paradise, and even Lady Mary's, but probably not Algarotti's, it's a neat note to go out on.
Agreed on both counts.
It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
I too am glad they were able to hang onto their friendship. Especially since the relationship with Algarotti wasn't worth losing an important friendship over for either of them, not even Hervey, who "won".
Re: Algarotti
Re: Algarotti
Re: Algarotti
(Also, being unlike you and novels being easier for me than nonfic, it's good rest from doing Ziebura, whom I love but which is heavier going!)
Brontes
I not only find it readable, but it makes me feel completely immersed in the sheer passion and intensity of the characters' personalities. I would have liked more Anne, but it does do a good job of acknowledging her hidden steel, as well as Charlotte's discomfort with it.
I'm also glad it's providing a much needed break in 18th century history. :)
Re: Algarotti
By Lucasta Miller? Yes, I did, and agree it's very interesting. And occasionally darkly hilarious, like the descriptions of the early Hollywood movie where Charlotte ends up in a love triangle with Emily and the Reverend Arthur Nichols...
Especially since the relationship with Algarotti wasn't worth losing an important friendship over for either of them, not even Hervey, who "won".
Indeed. They were among each other's favourite people and loyal through a great number of ordeals (among other things, being attacked by the foremost English poet of their age, Alexander Pope, who first praised Lady Mary to the skies and then turned against her - whether or not it was because he finally did dare a pass and she laughed at him is debated - with a vengeance), and it would have been a shame to lose this over the most fickle of swans. Something remarkable: Lady Mary got attacked not just by Pope but later Horace Walpole wiht every accusation misogyny can inspire, including, of course, sexual licence. And yet neither of them when accusing her of having lovers, including younger lovers, names Algarotti. Her unrequited love for him and Algarotti ending up with Hervey (for a while) would have been a gift to satirists hating both her and Hervey. And Algarotti was such a prominent figure at that point: the story would have been eaten up with relish by a wide audience, especially since it ended up with Lady Mary humiliated. And yet - neither Pope, who accuses Lady Mary of "poxing her lovers" (which is a nasty pun on her inoculation work against small pox, mixing it with the accusation of inflicting STD) nor Walpole, who when she returned near the end of her life to die in England said she shold be quaranteened because she was sure to be so dirty, ever caught wind of the Algarotti situation. Which must mean that both Hervey (who usually loved to gossip) and Algarotti kept absolutely mum.
Re: Algarotti
Yep, that's the one. I figured if you liked Hahn's account of the evolving historiography of Fritz, you'd like the same being done with the Brontes, especially with an eye toward methodology. I'm glad I read Miller *before* I read Gaskell. Miller may not be right in all of her conclusions, but she at least gets you thinking critically.
it would have been a shame to lose this over the most fickle of swans
Indeed, and I love the way you phrased this.
Which must mean that both Hervey (who usually loved to gossip) and Algarotti kept absolutely mum.
That is really interesting, and good for them! Algarotti had better keep mum *frowny face*, but good for Hervey, rival love interest yet loyal friend.
Bronte excursion
Since I also had read a lot on and about Sylvia Path and Ted Hughes (who was born none too far from Haworth) by the time I came across Lucasta Miller, the part where she she deals with Plath and Hughs and the Bronte myth was of particular interest back then.
Re: Bronte excursion
One nice thing about Dark Quartet (and its sequel), published in the 1970s, is it includes most of the things in the italicized paragraph that Gaskell is taken to task for not including. Some of the anecdotes it includes are called out by Miller as unsupported or even contradicted by the evidence, but for a work of fiction, I have no problem with that.
Re: Bronte excursion
Re: Algarotti
It surviving the crisis to it which the initial triangle situation with Algarotti was (when Hervey did see Lady Mary as a rival and wasn't yet sure which way Algarotti would go) was a great relief to both biographers.
This makes me happy too :D Yay friendship, I say with Heinrich :D (As opposed to love triangles, for sure!)
See, in fiction I would have let him write two odes, just in case, one to Fritz and one to MT, and then by accident mail them to the respective wrong recipient.
MT: gets the one with praise for the lone eagle, complete with homoerotic banter
Fritz: gets the one with praise for the Juno of the Alps, the Mother of Europe surely in need of a tasteful art collector now that peace has been restored.
I WANT THIS NOW. LOL!
Re: Algarotti
Re: Algarotti
As for the reactions:
MT: ...So now he's forwarding his fanmail to me? Is this supposed to be a new humiliation tactic? And what does this "reams and rears" and "Your pushes, forward and divine" stuff mean?
FS: Trust me, darling, you don't want to know.
Fritz: OH MOST FICKLE OF ALL SWANS!
Re: Algarotti
Re: Algarotti
okay, I guess I don't need the fic now, this really does sum it up so hilariously
(though I would still not say no to it)
Do you realise one would then have to compose fake Algarotti odes to MT and Fritz respectively? To quote from? In overblown 18th century style?
I mean, it's not a con for me, not being the writer :D
Re: Macaulay - MT
Re: Macaulay - MT
WHAT I was with you until then, Macaulay!
Huh. So is he right about Catholicism being a major cause of MT wanting Silesia back? I'd always thought that she wanted it back because, well, it used to be hers.
Re: Macaulay - MT
However, Macaulay is writing as a 19th century freethinking Protestant Brit telling his readers why England was totally on the right side in this way. MT as a fanatic Catholic wanting Silesia for the faith fits in with this narrative.