Comments and thoughts on the above, posted separately for length: context is indeed King. Volz does not include any of the few letters exchanged between AW and Fritz post Zittau in this, so if you haven't read them and don't know which letters Wilhelmine refers to when she mentions them, you'd get the impression that the stubbornness was all on AW's side. Whereas when you keep Fritz' letters in mind, which were written long after the initial disgrace and hence not impulsive, you can see why AW was less than inclined to believe Wilhelmine's and Ulrike's insistence that Fritz would respond positively to any first step and that he did love him.
Otoh, what these letters also demonstrate is AW discovering his own inner terrier at just the wrong time, resulting in an utter deadlock. Because of course Wilhelmine is right that there's an (existential) war going on (which is also why Heinrich, even at peak Fritz hating, doesn't resign), Fritz will never make the first step, least of all if he feels himself pressured into it, and someone needs to. It's also apparant that AW while having learned from FW along with the rest of them that military honor is everything and the only occupation fit for a prince is that of a soldier never, unlike Fritz (or Wilhelmine), went through the daily humiliation rigmarole, learning that you can, in fact, come back from this. Both Fritz and AW have internalized that King vs Crown Prince is a zero sum power game, and nothing less than complete submission (at least to outer appearance) and acceptance that it was all the Prince's fault would do. But AW doesn't believe he'd be able to come back from this.
(There's also the question of how far he was influenced by his physical state or how far the physical state was influenced by his mental one. The Hohenzollern in general weren' a healthy bunch, but it's still noticable that Aw falls seriously sick almost immediately after his disgrace, recovers again in the three weeks he spends with Heinrich in Leipzig in December, stays reasonably healthy in January when he's back in Berlin and surrounded by people he likes, and then starts his physical decline again after Fritz has made it clear the "simple volunteer in the army" solution is out of the question as well.)
At a guess, if AW had gone through the utter submission routine, Fritz would have taken him back, not least because with the war going on and his own death utterly possible at each battle, it really is bad policy to demonstrate a rift between King and Crown Prince on a daily basis. Also because that's how the powerplay model went in their family, and by then he knew it from both the receiving and the dealing out end. And of course he did not expect AW to die.
Thanks for all this! It makes really interesting (if painful) reading, both the quotes that were new to us and your analysis of Volz's selectiveness.
nothing less than complete submission (at least to outer appearance) and acceptance that it was all the Prince's fault would do. But AW doesn't believe he'd be able to come back from this.
That, and it's worth remembering that Fritz himself had to be pushed a lot further than AW had been before *he* gave into complete submission. Even *after* Katte's head was cut off, he was still arguing predestination. AW, of course, does not have terrier mode as his default, like Fritz, but once he tapped into it...all the terriers we know in this fandom would not have backed down from 1757-1758 events.
At a guess, if AW had gone through the utter submission routine, Fritz would have taken him back... Also because that's how the powerplay model went in their family, and by then he knew it from both the receiving and the dealing out end.
Agreed.
Speaking of coming back, Fritz...*stern look*...I feel the need to point out that YOU were allowed (allowed yourself) to come back from Mollwitz, the kind of behavior you would never ever forgive anyone else.
:( indeed. Also: the detail that Fritz at first wanted to give Heinrich AW's command reminds me unpleasantly of FW trying to split up Fritz and Wihelmine via Grumbkow.
For what it's worth: Heinrich had received his first autonomous command already on April 15th 1757, before AW got his - AW was still on of Fritz staff officers at this point - , though Heinrich's was on a smaller scale at first. Heinrich was supposed to go from Neustadt to Bohemia with a small corps to investigate the enemy positions there since Fritz wanted to occupy Bohemia as long as he was still "only" dealing with the Austrians there, and the Russians hadn't arrived yet. Heinrich accomplished the mission, reported as ordered and Fritz marched on to Prague, the battle thereof was also the first time Heinrich distinguished himself big time not just in terms of personal bravery but command, as part of the right wing (he managed to both get his men out of an unexpected Pandur firing line and later take (some, obviously, not all but those he could get at with the right wing) of the Austrian positions by a sneak attack through the mud. Fritz mentions it applaudingly in his letters to the sisters as you might recall. (AW got his first - and fatal - autonomous command only after the battle of Kollin in June.) So it's entirely possible the offer of AW's command to Heinrich was merit-based, but: we're talking Hohenzollern there.
:( indeed. Also: the detail that Fritz at first wanted to give Heinrich AW's command reminds me unpleasantly of FW trying to split up Fritz and Wihelmine via Grumbkow.
Oh maaaaan. I didn't think about that (since you have exposed me to the rest of the letters) but yes, I can see that if those nuclear Fritz letters hadn't been quoted, it gives a veeeeery different picture of AW.
But yeah, it's painful to read the Wilhelmine letters -- and you can also see that she knows very well what she's talking about (the bit where she goes " I could tell you things in this regard which would greatly surprise you." kills me), but perhaps can't actually articulate it in a way that AW could understand. (How could he understand, after all, what she and Fritz had been through?)
Also, Ulrike, omg. I always imagine her as an ~evil drama queen~, and this letter does not exactly change my assessment of her :P
It's also kind of an Experience reading this right after "My Brother Narcissus." :(
I can see that if those nuclear Fritz letters hadn't been quoted, it gives a veeeeery different picture of AW.
Yes, and it's the one Pangels (and Hamilton, and others) are following when saying that Fritz was at best harsh (yet fair) in his initial reaction and it was AW's stubbornness that prevented a happy ending and turned into a year long mental suicide instead. *does my best Jean-Luc Picard imitation* A lie of omission is still a lie.*
Re: Ulrike, to be fair, she actually doesn't express much different opinions than Wilhelmine - sympathy in the first one and in the second one that AW needs to make the first step because Fritz is the King and it's damaging AW's reputation not to fight in this war. Also "this is our family flaw" is ruefully self aware and doesn't exclude herself. However, Wilhelmine has a different kind of urgency in her phrasing, and then there's the fact that according to Ziebura Wilhelmine was the only sister who actually dared to plead AW's cause to Fritz in her letters, for all that the others expressed their sympathy to AW. Granted, Wilhelmine had a different type of relationship with Fritz than the others, but still, she didn't just talk the talk, she walked the walk, and she really did spend what little life time she had left devoted to her brothers, betweeen trying for backchannel diplomacy to negotiate a separate peace with the French, keeping Fritz from committing suicide when depressed, and trying to reconcile her brothers. Now Amalie was entirely dependent on Fritz, abbess or not. But Ulrike, in far off Sweden (which was btw at war with Prussia, which hadn't been her fault, mind - remember, there was in 1756 a growling letter to AW on the notes of "and pray remind Fritz this would never have happened if he'd given me my goddamm inheritance money so I could overthrow parliament and reintroduce absolute monarchy!" -) had nothing to fear in terms of fraternal retaliations, and she could have written to Fritz for all the good it would have done.
It's also kind of an Experience reading this right after "My Brother Narcissus." :(
Well, in my initial write up I had used the 1749 events that form the core of "My Brother Narcissus" as the farcical prelude of the main tragedy from 1757-1758. But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
Well, he's defintely following the paternal role model...
Re: Ulrike, to be fair, she actually doesn't express much different opinions than Wilhelmine - sympathy in the first one and in the second one that AW needs to make the first step because Fritz is the King and it's damaging AW's reputation not to fight in this war.
I suppose so. It's probably in great degree because I already thought she was terrible :)
But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
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Re: More Volz: A family affair
Otoh, what these letters also demonstrate is AW discovering his own inner terrier at just the wrong time, resulting in an utter deadlock. Because of course Wilhelmine is right that there's an (existential) war going on (which is also why Heinrich, even at peak Fritz hating, doesn't resign), Fritz will never make the first step, least of all if he feels himself pressured into it, and someone needs to. It's also apparant that AW while having learned from FW along with the rest of them that military honor is everything and the only occupation fit for a prince is that of a soldier never, unlike Fritz (or Wilhelmine), went through the daily humiliation rigmarole, learning that you can, in fact, come back from this. Both Fritz and AW have internalized that King vs Crown Prince is a zero sum power game, and nothing less than complete submission (at least to outer appearance) and acceptance that it was all the Prince's fault would do. But AW doesn't believe he'd be able to come back from this.
(There's also the question of how far he was influenced by his physical state or how far the physical state was influenced by his mental one. The Hohenzollern in general weren' a healthy bunch, but it's still noticable that Aw falls seriously sick almost immediately after his disgrace, recovers again in the three weeks he spends with Heinrich in Leipzig in December, stays reasonably healthy in January when he's back in Berlin and surrounded by people he likes, and then starts his physical decline again after Fritz has made it clear the "simple volunteer in the army" solution is out of the question as well.)
At a guess, if AW had gone through the utter submission routine, Fritz would have taken him back, not least because with the war going on and his own death utterly possible at each battle, it really is bad policy to demonstrate a rift between King and Crown Prince on a daily basis. Also because that's how the powerplay model went in their family, and by then he knew it from both the receiving and the dealing out end. And of course he did not expect AW to die.
Re: More Volz: A family affair
nothing less than complete submission (at least to outer appearance) and acceptance that it was all the Prince's fault would do. But AW doesn't believe he'd be able to come back from this.
That, and it's worth remembering that Fritz himself had to be pushed a lot further than AW had been before *he* gave into complete submission. Even *after* Katte's head was cut off, he was still arguing predestination. AW, of course, does not have terrier mode as his default, like Fritz, but once he tapped into it...all the terriers we know in this fandom would not have backed down from 1757-1758 events.
At a guess, if AW had gone through the utter submission routine, Fritz would have taken him back... Also because that's how the powerplay model went in their family, and by then he knew it from both the receiving and the dealing out end.
Agreed.
Speaking of coming back, Fritz...*stern look*...I feel the need to point out that YOU were allowed (allowed yourself) to come back from Mollwitz, the kind of behavior you would never ever forgive anyone else.
Zero sum power games :(
Re: More Volz: A family affair
For what it's worth: Heinrich had received his first autonomous command already on April 15th 1757, before AW got his - AW was still on of Fritz staff officers at this point - , though Heinrich's was on a smaller scale at first. Heinrich was supposed to go from Neustadt to Bohemia with a small corps to investigate the enemy positions there since Fritz wanted to occupy Bohemia as long as he was still "only" dealing with the Austrians there, and the Russians hadn't arrived yet. Heinrich accomplished the mission, reported as ordered and Fritz marched on to Prague, the battle thereof was also the first time Heinrich distinguished himself big time not just in terms of personal bravery but command, as part of the right wing (he managed to both get his men out of an unexpected Pandur firing line and later take (some, obviously, not all but those he could get at with the right wing) of the Austrian positions by a sneak attack through the mud. Fritz mentions it applaudingly in his letters to the sisters as you might recall. (AW got his first - and fatal - autonomous command only after the battle of Kollin in June.) So it's entirely possible the offer of AW's command to Heinrich was merit-based, but: we're talking Hohenzollern there.
Re: More Volz: A family affair
OMG, you're right. :( :(
Re: More Volz: A family affair
But yeah, it's painful to read the Wilhelmine letters -- and you can also see that she knows very well what she's talking about (the bit where she goes " I could tell you things in this regard which would greatly surprise you." kills me), but perhaps can't actually articulate it in a way that AW could understand. (How could he understand, after all, what she and Fritz had been through?)
Also, Ulrike, omg. I always imagine her as an ~evil drama queen~, and this letter does not exactly change my assessment of her :P
It's also kind of an Experience reading this right after "My Brother Narcissus." :(
Re: More Volz: A family affair
I forgot to add that this line gave me the shivers too. :(
Also, Ulrike, omg. I always imagine her as an ~evil drama queen~, and this letter does not exactly change my assessment of her :P
Obnoxiously Right Fritz: I told you Amalie was the nice one, Sweden!
It's also kind of an Experience reading this right after "My Brother Narcissus." :(
You said it.
Re: More Volz: A family affair
Yes, and it's the one Pangels (and Hamilton, and others) are following when saying that Fritz was at best harsh (yet fair) in his initial reaction and it was AW's stubbornness that prevented a happy ending and turned into a year long mental suicide instead. *does my best Jean-Luc Picard imitation* A lie of omission is still a lie.*
Re: Ulrike, to be fair, she actually doesn't express much different opinions than Wilhelmine - sympathy in the first one and in the second one that AW needs to make the first step because Fritz is the King and it's damaging AW's reputation not to fight in this war. Also "this is our family flaw" is ruefully self aware and doesn't exclude herself. However, Wilhelmine has a different kind of urgency in her phrasing, and then there's the fact that according to Ziebura Wilhelmine was the only sister who actually dared to plead AW's cause to Fritz in her letters, for all that the others expressed their sympathy to AW. Granted, Wilhelmine had a different type of relationship with Fritz than the others, but still, she didn't just talk the talk, she walked the walk, and she really did spend what little life time she had left devoted to her brothers, betweeen trying for backchannel diplomacy to negotiate a separate peace with the French, keeping Fritz from committing suicide when depressed, and trying to reconcile her brothers. Now Amalie was entirely dependent on Fritz, abbess or not. But Ulrike, in far off Sweden (which was btw at war with Prussia, which hadn't been her fault, mind - remember, there was in 1756 a growling letter to AW on the notes of "and pray remind Fritz this would never have happened if he'd given me my goddamm inheritance money so I could overthrow parliament and reintroduce absolute monarchy!" -) had nothing to fear in terms of fraternal retaliations, and she could have written to Fritz for all the good it would have done.
It's also kind of an Experience reading this right after "My Brother Narcissus." :(
Well, in my initial write up I had used the 1749 events that form the core of "My Brother Narcissus" as the farcical prelude of the main tragedy from 1757-1758. But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
Well, he's defintely following the paternal role model...
ETA: I have now edited in these new letter quotes into my original write up.
Re: More Volz: A family affair
I suppose so. It's probably in great degree because I already thought she was terrible :)
But if you want Ulrike in Evil Queen mode, remember that she in the 1740s writes to Fritz: My brother Heinrich must be very sensitive to the honor that your majesty does him. How happy we are all together to live under the laws of a brother who is a true father to us!
Hee, yes. *facepalm*