Countess Bentincks as the first woman equestrian young Sophie saw:
I admit I don't know enough about customs of the place and time to be able to say whether my surprise is really warranted, but...is it possible she means ride *astride* (something I believe Catherine herself was later known for doing)? As opposed to sidesaddle? Or was it really not done for a woman of her class to appear on horseback at all?
I think it probably was different from country to country. The hunts at the German courts, even if ladies were present, don't sound as if said ladies usually participated in them on horseback (riding in whichever fashion), unlike in Britain, where noblewomen were expected to hunt. I know MT, child of Vienna who had a proud tradition of horse riding and one of the most famous equestrian schools in the world, had nonetheless to learn riding explicitly for her Hungarian coronation because apparantly for an archduchess and future wife of a sovereign it hadn't be part of the educational program. (And it was really quintessential for the Hungarian coronation ceremony, in order to impress the Hungarians into fighting for her by adopting their customs; not only did she have to ride but she had to draw a sword from its sheath and turn it, and the horse, into all four directions.) She did love it, though, and kept it up for as long as she could, making it a custom for other ladies as well and at one point staging an all female riding event at the Hofschule (the famous riding hall in Vienna).
Bear also in mind that Sophie's from a small, small very Protestant court (her father was not happy about this converting to the orthodox faith), and the next largest court her mother occasionally visited with her is the one one headed (in theory) by SD and FW, and then by Fritz and EC. You can bet neither SD nor EC were on horseback! So it's quite likely that Countess Benticnk really was the first woman rider she saw. (And note she's riding to meet the visitors, i.e. it's not a hunt, she's just riding for the fun of it. Not something I can see either Prussian Queen doing, and consequently not their ladies in waiting, either.) All this being said, it's also possible the Countess did ride astride on that occasion, given that Catherine later says "she rode like a master of the horses" - German translation of the French original says "a stallmeister", which in courtly terms isn't a stable master but the courtly office Robert Dudley received when Elizabeth ascended the throne in England, for example, but in any effect is a male term.
Mind you, riding sidesaddle was by no means unimpressive. Two centuries earlier, another Catherine, Catherine de' Medici, had famously invented it when being the Dauphine in France so she could participate in the hunt, which impressed the hell out of her father-in-law Francois I. whose approval ensured she wasn't sent back to Italy. And the custom for women on horseback before that was basically for them to sit in box-like arrangements, with no possibility to ride at a pace other than very very slowly. Catherine de' Medici was an excellent rider, again like MT for as long as she was physically able (i.e. before all those pregnancies and weight increase made it impossible), and while we're talking France, Liselotte also was a great (sidesaddle) rider and enthusiastic hunter, bonding with brother-in-law Louis XIV about this because none of his mistresses was any good at it, but does seem to have learned both after arriving in France, not before. (One of Liselotte's letters contains a rather dramatic description of her horse getting spooked and starting to run without any possibility of getting restrained again, which meant she had to cling to it until it had run ahead far enough so she wouldn't get trampled by subsequent horses, then let herself fall to the ground while the horse was still in full gallop. She survived this with just a few scratches, though the King was "white as a sheet" when arriving.) While Liselotte's relationship with her royal brother-in-law had its ups and downs - not least because she really hated him invading the Palatinate while using her as a pretense, and also she hated Madame de Maintenon, his last mistress and morganatic wife -, this shared enthusiasm was something they kept up even in old age, when neither of them was physically able anymore to ride. They used a carriage instead.
She may have been misremembering, but I'm going to come to her rescue here with Old Style dates!
Good point! That is a distinct possibility. (The difference in dating is also something the memoirs editor mentions as giving him a headache.)
Sophie/Heinrich = Prussian Macbeths AU: yes, given the conditions in Prussia, she's always going to need a man as an intermediary to exert power through. Even if both young FW and Henricus Minor die of smallpox or measles or any of the many illnesses available after AW's death, and thus Heinrich does become the next in line for the throne. I suppose if she has a son whom he has acknowledged as his, she could, in theory, become regent once Heinrich himself dies, if none of the predecessors made it explicit law to have no female regents, but: that only lasts a few years, too, and then she's back where she started. For "no woman shall rule in Salic lands". And those are a lot of necessary deaths happening first. Heinrich wasn't the Augustus from I, Claudius and Catherine wasn't Livia. He also was emotionally invested in AW's kids, and had a sound sense of self preservation. With no Fritz holding him back from a divorce, it probably would have been, if she'd really tried to achieve such a scenario in the way Graves' Livia did, divorce at best, Küstrin at worst. But I'm not sure she would have gone this route in the first place, because she was realist, and trying for a few years of shared regency post Fritz death with the option of remaining the most important advisor/power behind the throne once FW2 reaches his majority would have been a far more sensible policy. Especially since young FW2 liked the ladies, and I don't just mean sexually. The smartest play for Sophie would be to make herself his second mother figure and understanding ear early on, and leave the issuing of unpopular dos and don'ts after Fritz' death to Heinrich.
So...bad for real life, excellent for plotty fic. Much like actual history with all its dysfunctional family dynamics and unhappy marriages, lol.
Yep. I mean, the long distance and them not being part of the same hierarchy undoubtedly was great for allowing them to remain friends. Now I'm trying to decide whether they could, in theory, have fallen for the same guy. As opposed to what I believed, Heinrich actually did have Kaphengst with him during the first Russia trip (though not the seoond), and him being sex on legs is pretty much the only explanation any biographer could find as to why Heinrich put up with him for so long despite of all the ever increasing downsides. And Kaphengst would have had zilch restraint to exchange being a prince's favourite to becoming an Czarina's favourite. However, in Catherine's life this would have been where Grigorij Orlov was still around and Potemkin (who of all her lovers is the one with the biggest claim to the "love of life" title) was up and coming, plus she really liked Heinrich, so she probably would have looked at Kaphengst and thought, nah.
Also, there's Fritzplaining, which can range from entertaining to annoying but is ultimately harmless, and then there's Fritz-micromanaging, which is what drove Algarotti crazy about his diplomatic mission and played a role in its failure. I think Heinrich getting a free hand was the big payoff here.
Absolutely. And Fritz himself, due to both brothers suspecting (correctly, as it turned out) that the Prussian envoy at St. Petersburg, Solms, in whose hands the courier service was, was either not enough concerned with safety or in the pockets of the Russians and thus not a safe channel of communication, had written that while Heinrich was in Russia they could only exchange harmless letters full of Catherine praise and travelogues, which together with the sheer geographical distance meant Fritz couldn't change his mind and try to micromanage Heinrich from afair after all. Heinrich hadn't had this much of a mixture of actual political responsibility and room to use it since parts - but only parts, and it always ended - of the 7 Years War.
And thank you for these! It's great to have visuals, especially for fic purposes.
You're welcome, and agreed. Especially since when people today read "dancing" they automatically imagine waltz, which wasn't a thing yet. Incidentally, when I plotted Fiat Justicia and wondered how Katte would approach Wilhelmine at Monbijou, it recalling those rococo dances that made realise that with all the partner changing and group dancing, he could have cut into the dance floor quite easily, and Wilhelmine did write in her memoirs she'd been determined to dance that day.
I note that despite Fritz, later in life, telling more than one person he enjoyed dancing when younger and still enjoys watching it even if he can't participate anymore-, - not surprising, btw, coming from a man willing to pay princely salaries to ballerinas -, not a single movie or tv series I can think of has Frederick the Great, at whichever age, dancing. The image just doesn't fit with people's idea of him, I suppose.
Re: Anhalt Sophie: Portrait of the Czarina as a young girl
I admit I don't know enough about customs of the place and time to be able to say whether my surprise is really warranted, but...is it possible she means ride *astride* (something I believe Catherine herself was later known for doing)? As opposed to sidesaddle? Or was it really not done for a woman of her class to appear on horseback at all?
I think it probably was different from country to country. The hunts at the German courts, even if ladies were present, don't sound as if said ladies usually participated in them on horseback (riding in whichever fashion), unlike in Britain, where noblewomen were expected to hunt. I know MT, child of Vienna who had a proud tradition of horse riding and one of the most famous equestrian schools in the world, had nonetheless to learn riding explicitly for her Hungarian coronation because apparantly for an archduchess and future wife of a sovereign it hadn't be part of the educational program. (And it was really quintessential for the Hungarian coronation ceremony, in order to impress the Hungarians into fighting for her by adopting their customs; not only did she have to ride but she had to draw a sword from its sheath and turn it, and the horse, into all four directions.) She did love it, though, and kept it up for as long as she could, making it a custom for other ladies as well and at one point staging an all female riding event at the Hofschule (the famous riding hall in Vienna).
Bear also in mind that Sophie's from a small, small very Protestant court (her father was not happy about this converting to the orthodox faith), and the next largest court her mother occasionally visited with her is the one one headed (in theory) by SD and FW, and then by Fritz and EC. You can bet neither SD nor EC were on horseback! So it's quite likely that Countess Benticnk really was the first woman rider she saw. (And note she's riding to meet the visitors, i.e. it's not a hunt, she's just riding for the fun of it. Not something I can see either Prussian Queen doing, and consequently not their ladies in waiting, either.) All this being said, it's also possible the Countess did ride astride on that occasion, given that Catherine later says "she rode like a master of the horses" - German translation of the French original says "a stallmeister", which in courtly terms isn't a stable master but the courtly office Robert Dudley received when Elizabeth ascended the throne in England, for example, but in any effect is a male term.
Mind you, riding sidesaddle was by no means unimpressive. Two centuries earlier, another Catherine, Catherine de' Medici, had famously invented it when being the Dauphine in France so she could participate in the hunt, which impressed the hell out of her father-in-law Francois I. whose approval ensured she wasn't sent back to Italy. And the custom for women on horseback before that was basically for them to sit in box-like arrangements, with no possibility to ride at a pace other than very very slowly. Catherine de' Medici was an excellent rider, again like MT for as long as she was physically able (i.e. before all those pregnancies and weight increase made it impossible), and while we're talking France, Liselotte also was a great (sidesaddle) rider and enthusiastic hunter, bonding with brother-in-law Louis XIV about this because none of his mistresses was any good at it, but does seem to have learned both after arriving in France, not before. (One of Liselotte's letters contains a rather dramatic description of her horse getting spooked and starting to run without any possibility of getting restrained again, which meant she had to cling to it until it had run ahead far enough so she wouldn't get trampled by subsequent horses, then let herself fall to the ground while the horse was still in full gallop. She survived this with just a few scratches, though the King was "white as a sheet" when arriving.) While Liselotte's relationship with her royal brother-in-law had its ups and downs - not least because she really hated him invading the Palatinate while using her as a pretense, and also she hated Madame de Maintenon, his last mistress and morganatic wife -, this shared enthusiasm was something they kept up even in old age, when neither of them was physically able anymore to ride. They used a carriage instead.
She may have been misremembering, but I'm going to come to her rescue here with Old Style dates!
Good point! That is a distinct possibility. (The difference in dating is also something the memoirs editor mentions as giving him a headache.)
Sophie/Heinrich = Prussian Macbeths AU: yes, given the conditions in Prussia, she's always going to need a man as an intermediary to exert power through. Even if both young FW and Henricus Minor die of smallpox or measles or any of the many illnesses available after AW's death, and thus Heinrich does become the next in line for the throne. I suppose if she has a son whom he has acknowledged as his, she could, in theory, become regent once Heinrich himself dies, if none of the predecessors made it explicit law to have no female regents, but: that only lasts a few years, too, and then she's back where she started. For "no woman shall rule in Salic lands". And those are a lot of necessary deaths happening first. Heinrich wasn't the Augustus from I, Claudius and Catherine wasn't Livia. He also was emotionally invested in AW's kids, and had a sound sense of self preservation. With no Fritz holding him back from a divorce, it probably would have been, if she'd really tried to achieve such a scenario in the way Graves' Livia did, divorce at best, Küstrin at worst. But I'm not sure she would have gone this route in the first place, because she was realist, and trying for a few years of shared regency post Fritz death with the option of remaining the most important advisor/power behind the throne once FW2 reaches his majority would have been a far more sensible policy. Especially since young FW2 liked the ladies, and I don't just mean sexually. The smartest play for Sophie would be to make herself his second mother figure and understanding ear early on, and leave the issuing of unpopular dos and don'ts after Fritz' death to Heinrich.
So...bad for real life, excellent for plotty fic. Much like actual history with all its dysfunctional family dynamics and unhappy marriages, lol.
Yep. I mean, the long distance and them not being part of the same hierarchy undoubtedly was great for allowing them to remain friends. Now I'm trying to decide whether they could, in theory, have fallen for the same guy. As opposed to what I believed, Heinrich actually did have Kaphengst with him during the first Russia trip (though not the seoond), and him being sex on legs is pretty much the only explanation any biographer could find as to why Heinrich put up with him for so long despite of all the ever increasing downsides. And Kaphengst would have had zilch restraint to exchange being a prince's favourite to becoming an Czarina's favourite. However, in Catherine's life this would have been where Grigorij Orlov was still around and Potemkin (who of all her lovers is the one with the biggest claim to the "love of life" title) was up and coming, plus she really liked Heinrich, so she probably would have looked at Kaphengst and thought, nah.
Also, there's Fritzplaining, which can range from entertaining to annoying but is ultimately harmless, and then there's Fritz-micromanaging, which is what drove Algarotti crazy about his diplomatic mission and played a role in its failure. I think Heinrich getting a free hand was the big payoff here.
Absolutely. And Fritz himself, due to both brothers suspecting (correctly, as it turned out) that the Prussian envoy at St. Petersburg, Solms, in whose hands the courier service was, was either not enough concerned with safety or in the pockets of the Russians and thus not a safe channel of communication, had written that while Heinrich was in Russia they could only exchange harmless letters full of Catherine praise and travelogues, which together with the sheer geographical distance meant Fritz couldn't change his mind and try to micromanage Heinrich from afair after all. Heinrich hadn't had this much of a mixture of actual political responsibility and room to use it since parts - but only parts, and it always ended - of the 7 Years War.
And thank you for these! It's great to have visuals, especially for fic purposes.
You're welcome, and agreed. Especially since when people today read "dancing" they automatically imagine waltz, which wasn't a thing yet. Incidentally, when I plotted Fiat Justicia and wondered how Katte would approach Wilhelmine at Monbijou, it recalling those rococo dances that made realise that with all the partner changing and group dancing, he could have cut into the dance floor quite easily, and Wilhelmine did write in her memoirs she'd been determined to dance that day.
I note that despite Fritz, later in life, telling more than one person he enjoyed dancing when younger and still enjoys watching it even if he can't participate anymore-, - not surprising, btw, coming from a man willing to pay princely salaries to ballerinas -, not a single movie or tv series I can think of has Frederick the Great, at whichever age, dancing. The image just doesn't fit with people's idea of him, I suppose.