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Frederick the Great discussion post 12
Every time I am amazed and enchanted that this is still going on! Truly DW is the Earthly Paradise!
All the good stuff continues to be archived at![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
rheinsberg :)
All the good stuff continues to be archived at
rheinsberg :)
Re: Poniatowski
What IS IT with this fandom and memoirs??! At least by this point when I realized there were three of them, I was jaded enough to assume at least some of them were fake. :P
consulted the same doctor, Lieberkühn, who prescribed Fritz his first glasses (the later isn't mentioned, I just noticed because Hahn had given me the name of the doctor
Look at us getting to know all the minor characters!
ETA: So far, P's memoirs in general are quite entertaining. He's often sarcastic, with an ego of his own, of course, but there's plenty of quotable stuff. Mind you, I could excerpt the Prussia-related bits, if that's all you're after, since it's really not his main subject. But fun.
I am here for anything and everything Poniatowski says that you think is interesting, and I think I can speak for
Spotted a rich French waistcoat at Sanssouci when I went touristing there; typical. Modest soldier my ass.
That's our Fritz. Sparta in public, Athens when no one is looking. :P
Elisaveta: still surprisingly attractive when I met her, though not in profile, more of a front woman. Great dancer.
Interesting! These "hot or not" reports are always fun.
If you're wondering how a stud like me was still a virgin until Catherine, look, I was raised a Polish Catholic, and then I was ambitious.
HA. Poniatowski, I can already tell your memoirs are going to be fun.
(P)Russian Pete: Ugh. And I do mean ugh. Yes, I'm completely unbiased here. Incidentally, re: his Fritz fanboying, whom he really fanboyed was FW; he had them mixed up on terms of what he thought Fritz was like. Proof no.1: he loved pipe smoking.
That's hilarious.
Speaking of (P)Russian Pete, we were wondering about his portrait of Fritz practices at one point. Blanning reports,
As the French complained, the new tsar had not so much an attachment as an "inexpressible passion" for Frederick, whom he hailed in a personal letter "one of the greatest heroes the world has ever seen." He often wore the uniform of a Prussian major-general, displayed in his apartment all the portraits of his hero he could find and repeatedly kissed Frederick's image on a ring sent from Potsdam as a present.
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete
His grandmother was the sister of Charles XII, his mother the daughter of Peter the Great, and yet nature had made only a coward out of him, a wastrel and such a funny personality that one couldn't help but exclaim "Look there! the arlechino finto principe" when one saw him.
I suppose that his nurse and all his first teachers in his own country were Prussians, or otherwise bribed by the King of Prussia, for he had such an extraordinary and downright ridiculous veneration and tenderness for this prince from early childhood onwards that this passion - and it really was a passion - caused even the King of Prussia to remark: "I am his Dulcinea. He has never seen me, and yet he fell in love with me like Don Quichotte."
He had been twelve or thirteen years old when Elizabeth had hi brought to Russia, made him convert to the orthodox religion and appointed him her successor. But he always kept a strong attachment to the Lutheran faith in which he had been raised, a strong idea of the importance of his state of Holstein and the conviction that the troops which he had there and which he - as he claimed - had led to I don't know how many victories were after the Prussian troops the best in the world, and much more able than the Russians.
One day, he told Prince Esterhazy, the Viennese envoy at his aunt's court: "How can you hope for a success against the King of Prussia, when your troops can't even be compared to mine, and I myself have to admit that my soldiers are far less able than those of Prussia!"
And to me he said in one of those outpourings with which he often bothered me: "Don't you understand how unhappy I am! I should be in the service of the King of Prusisa; I would serve him with all my enthusiasm and all my vigour; I am sure that I'd be in possession of a regiment today, would have the rank of Generalmajor or even of a Generalieutenant. But no, they brought me here, made me Grandduke in this godforsaken country!"
Then he held a diatribe about the Russian nation in the grotesque way of speech which was his, though sometimes even amusingly so, for he didn't lake a certain type of wit; he wasn't stupid, he was just mad, and since he loved to drink, he contributed his share to the utter destruction of what little reason he was endowed to begin with. Additionally, he kept smoking tobacco, was of a very thin and measly figure, usually wore the uniform of Holstein and rarely anything else, and was in general dressed so ridiculous and tasteless that he ever looked like a Capitano or like something that escaped an Italian farce.
This was the heir presumptative chosen by Elizabeth.
He was always the target of mockery of his future subjects, sometimes also of dark prophecies and always the misfortune of his wife, who either had to suffer through him or die of embarassment about him. In his head, he confused everything which he had ever heard of the late King of Prussia (Grandfather of the currently ruling one, i.e. the one whom his brother-in-law, King George II England, used to call "King Corporal") with the idea he had of the then current King of Prussia. Consequently, he assumed one wronged the later if one claimed that he profered books to the pipe, and especially if one said that he loved to make verses. Whereas the Grand Duchess, like so many othres, couldn't stand the smell of tobacco smoke, and she was an avid reader; this was her husband's main complaint about her.
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete
"I am his Dulcinea. He has never seen me, and yet he fell in love with me like Don Quichotte."
HAHAHA, that's the best analogy ever. I had actually used it in the WIP I was working on a couple weeks ago, but I have to admit, it fits (P)Russian Pete, who's never met Fritz, better than it fits any of Fritz's actual boyfriends (in this case, Suhm).
Consequently, he assumed one wronged the later if one claimed that he profered books to the pipe, and especially if one said that he loved to make verses. Whereas the Grand Duchess, like so many othres, couldn't stand the smell of tobacco smoke, and she was an avid reader; this was her husband's main complaint about her.
If true, this is hilarious. Don Quixote indeed.
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete
And yes, Fritz is much more (P)Russian Pete's Dulcinea, not Suhm's. He's the Victoria to Suhm's Lord Melbourne, if anything. :)
(Voltaire: Ducinea nothing. He's Alcina, and specifically, my Alcina.)
Poor Pete. Catherine met Fritz. Poniatowski met Fritz. Neither of them bothered with an autograph. Meanwhile, who's the No.1 fan and only got a measly Black Eagle out of it before getting deposed?
Book reading: Poniatowski got his hands on a complete edition of the Pucelle, which was one of his earliest presents for Catherine (they read it together). And she was an avid reader. No idea whether Pete really wasn't one, though.
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete
Agreed, but this was an AU, and it made a little more sense in context. (Fritz has escaped, but now he's missing, no one knows where he is, and Suhm is riding all over Europe trying to find him.)
Btw, I totally stole your Paris/Helen of Troy line for them, it was *so* good, and in the unlikely event that this ends up postable, I would like to keep it and credit you, if that's all right?
Poor Pete. Catherine met Fritz. Poniatowski met Fritz. Neither of them bothered with an autograph. Meanwhile, who's the No.1 fan and only got a measly Black Eagle out of it before getting deposed?
At least you got to prove your #1 fan creds by saving his life!
And she was an avid reader. No idea whether Pete really wasn't one, though.
No idea either. The annual Yuletide requester, who does at least read modern revisionist Russian sources dedicated to Peter as well as contemporary sources that aren't Catherine-derived, says,
Peter, who had a good education, a massive library that he was highly invested in. Who had, according to his tutor in Russia, a superior memory and a love for fortification, an interest in mathematics and the sciences, but a lack of interest in the humanities.
But how rigorous her scholarship is, I don't know. So make of that what you will. (She also says the drinking thing was all lies, that he suffered from terrible hangovers, and so he watered his wine and drank very little.)
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete
I suppose that his nurse and all his first teachers in his own country were Prussians, or otherwise bribed by the King of Prussia,
LOLOLOL!
Fritz: Hey, you know, that's a great idea. Heinrich, go bribe all the nurses of monarchs in the vicinity.
Heinrich: Why is it that I always have to do the work?
And to me he said in one of those outpourings with which he often bothered me
This I bet is true, I mean, maybe not necessarily the content but that he was pestering Poniatowski who was rolling his eyes, lol.
he wasn't stupid, he was just mad... and was in general dressed so ridiculous and tasteless that he ever looked like a Capitano or like something that escaped an Italian farce.
Heeee. Regardless of whether his portrait is true, he can sure make it memorable.
(Being the unironic, undetached, un-historically-informed reader that I am, very glad the two of you are here to make comments on Poniatowski's objectivity, lol. Otherwise I would have come away thinking Peter was exactly like that!)
Re: Poniatowski: Totally Objective Assessment of (P)Russian Pete