cahn | Frederick the Great discussion post 12

Indeed, and I would say I have my next Yuletide AU, except there's one problem for me with OOCness - not by Fritz or Voltaire, but I think MT, for all her Fritz loathing, would be too cautious to set a precedent by putting a crowned monarch on trial for wars of aggression. (For the same reason Elizabeth I. was extremely reluctant to put Mary Stuart on trial and then to have her executed. It's not the death that's the problem here, it's the legal precedent you're setting, which might be turned against you or any other monarch.

I would have to study the conditions of the Westfalian Peace Treaty (Cahn, that's the one ending the 30 Years War a century earlier, aka the most devastating war ever on European soil until the 20th century), too, because I think that actually provides already some legal basis. It was the first time a bunch of European powers agreed on the "War of aggression & invading countries = bad" principle. (Back when Bush 2 invaded Iraq, you had a bunch of newspaper columnists saying "that's it, the Westfalian Peace Treaty is broken". I mean, obviously Hitler & Co. had no problem breaking it earlier than that, but the journalist meant "by a nation priding itself on being on a lawful side of things".)

(Mind you: France was one of the powers supposed to guarantee the upholding of the Westfalian Peace Treaty, which France blithely used as a pretense to involve itself in the War of Polish Succession, the War of Austrian Succession and the 7 Years War. Gotta protect *ally of the moment* from *enemy of the moment* on HRE soil, which was where the 30 Years War had been fought.)

All this being said, I would so love a story featuring Brother Voltaire coming to the rescue of extremly loathing to be rescued Fritz by the power of the pen! At which point of the 7 Years War would you suggest Fritz to be captured?

You know, sometimes for the sake of a good fic, you have to handwave your premise. If the execution is good, it's perfectly fine by my standards! I trust you can come up with something to satisfy our scruples, and then move on to execution.

At which point of the 7 Years War would you suggest Fritz to be captured?

Ooh, interesting question. If you want to go with historical occasions on which he narrowly escaped capture, as opposed to inserting a fictional capture at a convenient point (which is also legit!), the first two candidates that come to mind are Kunersdorf, the absolute nadir of his misfortunes, when he was nearly captured in the battle (against the Russians) and had to be rescued by some of Zieten's hussars, and the plot by this guy to take advantage of the fact that Fritz wasn't heavily guarded at Prussian headquarters. I believe the latter took place in late 1761, i.e., shortly before Elizabeth of Russia died.

I believe the latter took place in late 1761, i.e., shortly before Elizabeth of Russia died.

The problem is that if it's shortly before Elizabeth dies, then as soon as Peter gets on the throne he will insist on doing the Fritz rescuing, and I can't have that. So Kunersdorf would be better!

Would we also let the Russians do what they miraculously didn't in RL, i.e progress to Berlin and unite with the Swedes there, so Regent!Heinrich has to negotiate a surrender? Or do they still not do that, since Fritz has been captured, and Heinrich still goes for a peace but from a somewhat better position?

Alternatively: how about Hochkirch? That has the advantage that he's battling Austrians, not Russians, and they could have orders for such a scenario that will end up with Fritz in Frankfurt.

Of course, we'd also have to explain why Seydlitz or Ziethen or any of the others don't try a daring rescue as long as Fritz is still nearby.

This is all wonderful and I am just watching it with awe and delight.

so Regent!Heinrich has to negotiate a surrender

I read the words "Regent!Heinrich" and got very excited. I want ALLLLLL the Regent!Heinrich and sibling Hohenzollern dynamics AU :DDDDD (I mean, I want the rest of it too!)

then as soon as Peter gets on the throne he will insist on doing the Fritz rescuing, and I can't have that.

Hahaha. Well, he'll certainly throw his weight around and attack the Austrians, but will he actually be effective in rescuing his hero before Voltaire gets there? Maybe Peter's the one who uses his leverage in a way that somehow results in a trial that nobody wants.

As for trials: one option is setting this in an AU where the trying of monarchs is a normal procedure with lots of precedent, either in general or because the Diet has more teeth. Depends on how canon-divergent you want to go (and how much you want to explore the consequences of a world where monarchs are more accountable).

how about Hochkirch? That has the advantage that he's battling Austrians, not Russians, and they could have orders for such a scenario that will end up with Fritz in Frankfurt.

I did think of Hochkirch, and for the reasons you mention. It's definitely an option. Let's keep it in mind!

I'm hoping to be able to read up more on Fritz's wars after my concentration gets fixed, hopefully in the next couple months, and since I hear you're too busy to write this month anyway *cough broccoli* :P, let me get back to you on this?

Of course, we'd also have to explain why Seydlitz or Ziethen or any of the others don't try a daring rescue as long as Fritz is still nearby.

Oh, they can try anything they want; failure is always an option (for the writer)!

Oh, selenak is talking about Yuletide here! I am totally sitting here putting it on my list of Frederician AUs and making plans to ask for this :P :D

Yes! I support you requesting this and selenak writing it! And I will do my best as 7 Years' War consultant, especially once I can read books again (I've got 3-4 military history books next up on my Fritzian wishlist). :D

Frederick the Great discussion post 12

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my

Re: Lucchessini, Catt and Fredersdorf, oh, my