cahn | Frederick the Great discussion post 12

Frederdorf would just not have been able to catch up on any Fritz satisfying level.

This is all very true. He was never going to be a native speaker, and while he might well get up to enough proficiency to equal or surpass Fritz's awkward German, the process of getting there in that environment would have been painful, good point, and the end result wasn't going to be worth walking across those coals.

So much of his life was about Fritz that I think insisting on German as their language was something like insisting on alchemy, and his own medication, despite Fritz constantly telling him otherwise. It was a way of of saying "This is me, not you; I love you, but I exist apart from you". Maintaining that core of self probably allowed him to remain sane and have no nervous breakdowns.

I like this a lot. Like that quote

cahn found,

Good counterpoint requires two qualities: (1) a meaningful or harmonious relationship between the lines, and (2) some degree of independence or individuality within the lines themselves.

And not only asserting his identity, but knowing that Fritz loved him enough to accept communicating in German with him, not just to conduct business like the rest of his German communications, but to carry on a close personal relationship.

And again, that Fritz accepted the language instead of doing a "my way or no way" here remains as powerful a testimony as the open tenderness of those letters.

Indeed. They're such a good ship. <3 I share

cahn's joy that we've found no evidence for that unsourced embezzlement allegation.

Hard same! Which is why I also am doubtful - unless someone finally gives us a direct citation like "see letter of Prussian official X/foreign envoy Y" - re: the handsome hussar story. On various levels and both sides. I mean, Fritz writes some of the most tender letters not in the first flush of infatuation (which we have zilch documents on, because Küstrin and Neuruppin), but years, even decades later. This does not sound like someone who'd have considered exchanging Fredersdorf for a random handsome guy at some point in the Silesian Wars. (And it would have had to be the Silesian wars, given when Fredersdorf died.) Also, since some of the earliest Fredersdorf letters are from the Silesian wars, I took this to mean Federsdorf wasn't with Fritz in the field to begin with, he was in Berlin keeping an eye on things from there, so how could he have been refused entry to the royal tent?

Now, of course, jealousy doesn't have to be rational and triggered by an actual cause. More often than not, it probably isn't. So it's entirely possible Fredersdorf thought he might get replaced by Mr. Handsome (if there is any basis to the story). At least replaced in the emotional sense, not in the professional, given the sheer number of tasks Fritz kept giving him. But somehow I can't equate someone this insecure about his status in Fritz' life with someone who has the confidence to stick with the German, keep alchemy as a hobby and keeps consulting non-Fritz approved doctors.

In conclusion: contemporary source, please, or I don't buy it.

) Also, since some of the earliest Fredersdorf letters are from the Silesian wars, I took this to mean Federsdorf wasn't with Fritz in the field to begin with, he was in Berlin keeping an eye on things from there, so how could he have been refused entry to the royal tent?

I have been wondering the same thing. We don't have a thorough enough correspondence to be certain that Fredersdorf was *never* in the field with him, but I'm not aware of any evidence to corroborate the claim that he was, whereas we do have letters from Fritz in the field to Fredersdorf in Berlin, so it's quite likely Fredersdorf was doing civilian stuff there the whole time.

So it's entirely possible Fredersdorf thought he might get replaced by Mr. Handsome (if there is any basis to the story).

I mean, IF there's any basis to this at all, this entire story might have grown out of Fritz wanting casual sex with random hussar and wanting some privacy for it. (If he was into having sex with Fredersdorf, I doubt it was entirely an exclusive relationship on his side.) Gossip could take it from there. But I don't see Fredersdorf murdering or driving someone to suicide over it, for the reasons you mention as well as others. I'm willing to bet he knows Fritz well enough to know how to keep himself indispensable over some pretty face.

And again; I question whether Fredersdorf was in the field or Fritz was into casual sex with his men. Post-Fredersdorf Glasow maybe? But there is a distinct lack of evidence for Handsome Hussar. (I also don't buy Lehndorff's story that Fredersdorf stepped down out of jealousy over Glasow, seriously.)

~~Pics~~ Documents or it didn't happen. :P

I also don't buy Lehndorff's story that Fredersdorf stepped down out of jealousy over Glasow, seriously.

I think our Lehndorff made the same mistake many people do, to use their own emotional spectrum and likely reactions as a basis to draw conclusions from. Don't forget, as he admits in his annotation to his youthful entries which he made decades later, he was ragingly jealous of anyone Heinrich favoured as a young man. So he was likely to assume this was how Fredersdorf must have felt about someone like Glasow.

Agree 100%. And Fredersdorf wasn't in Lehndorff's position: he *was* the secure favorite and always had been. I think he was in a position to be chill about any wandering eye Fritz might have had. And after years of bad health (we've seen their letters) and his impending death, which Lehndorff couldn't have known about when he wrote that entry, I don't think Fredersdorf *needed* a reason to step down beyond "I literally cannot do this job any more, no matter how hard I try. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

I agree with all this too!

Frederick the Great discussion post 12

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters

Re: He said, she said, they said: on partitioning Poland and other matters