(BTW, about that: is Fritz or is Fritz not thinking of:
Aristotle “Love is composed of a single soul inhibiting two bodies.”
and Plato:
"“And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half of himself, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and one will not be out of sight of the other even for a moment”."
when he makes that statement re: Wilhelmine and himself to Heinrich?
(Note that neither Aristotle nor Plato had siblings in mind with that simile, at least as far as I dimly recall...)
It's here, in the post AW, pre Wilhelmine's death letters, yes.
Think that I was born and raised with my sister from Bayreuth, that these first attachments are indissoluble, that between us the keenest tenderness has never received the least alteration, that we have separate bodies, but that we have one soul. Think that, after having wiped away so many kinds of misfortunes capable of disgusting me with life, there is only one blow left for me to anticipate which will make life truly unbearable.
Stop thinking about yourself and think about meeee. Think about how W and I are the only two people ever to be born and raised together, or to form indissoluble first attachments.
...There. Do you feel better now?
Heinrich: Only in the sense that rage has consumed 100% of my emotions, temporarily driving out grief. You know, there's *one* fraternal death I'm sure I could get over with all the speed and grace that you're looking for right now.
ROTFLOL. You know, I had a quick look at Charlotte Pangel‘s „Königskinder im Rokoko“, and being me, I started with the Heinrich chapter.
1.) Her three mainly quoted sources are Andrew Hamilton, sigh, Heinrich‘s early 20th century American biographer Chester Easum, and... Lehndorff. Yay to the last?
2.) Except Pangels, writing in the 1970s, is the first person, including nineteenth century people like Fontane, who gives us Heinrich the heterosexual. You read that right. Quoting Lehndorff‘s mentions of the Countess Bentinck to tell a tale of how Heinrich cheated on Mina with Bentinck, Lehndorff was the confidant of this affair, and felt very distressed when it was over and he and Heinrich weren‘t that close anymore. But, you know, in a platonic manner, just as a friend.
3.) Seriously, how anyone can read Lehndorff‘s diaries, even just the first volume, the original edition, and assume the above is beyond me.
4.) Marwitz doesn‘t exist. (Naturally, since Heinrich is straight.) Heinrich‘s early aversion to Big Bro is incomprehensible, his later hatred is warped, and for no reason other than fraternal jealousy. (AW having brought his death upon himself by his defeatism and gloom.) Sure, Heinrich advised Fritz against the Maxen disaster, and Fritz did it anyway, but Heinrich is still a know-it-all critisizing the great man with hindsight (even though she just mentioned he did it before the event itself). Heinrich‘s presumption of being as good a general as Fritz is megalomania. Treatment of civilians? Not an issue.
5.) Heinrich dies in self-caused isolation without any loved ones (naturally, since he‘s straight and there‘s no girlfriend around, and his wife is utterly estranged). But then, he never loved anyone. He was incapable. (The early Bentinck fling isn‘t presented as love, either, just as sex.) He could just hate. Why Fritz the eternally chill and forgiving kept trying is a mystery. Well, okay, he was a good uncle to Ferdinand‘s kids, and okay, Ferdinand and he got along, and yeah, some French people in France and out of it liked him, too, and Lehndorff seems to have done (still yearning for the days where he was a confidant to the Heinrich/Bentinck affair), but other than that.
6.) Heinrich liked the French Revolution because he liked anything French, i.e. Pangels quotes Hamilton on this. Okay, he also seems to have had a warped bias against kings.
7.) I‘m still not over Heinrich the heterosexual and Lehndorff the Heinrich/Bentinck shipper.
Given this, I‘m not sure I‘m up to the other chapters, but maybe she does better with the sisters...
Oh, dear lord. I had a feeling it might be bad (being MacDonogh's main source on the siblings, whom he universally has it in for), but Heinrich the het is beyond me too!
Well, thank god for Ziebura, then.
Okay, he also seems to have had a warped bias against kings.
I wonder where he and AW could have gotten the idea that unlimited monarchy has its downsides? Not from Fritz the eternally chill!
7) ME NEITHER.
maybe she does better with the sisters...
Remember MacDonogh the "The sisters had the temerity to ask Fritz to pay off their debts" guy? Don't hold your breath.
Thanks for trying! Back to ambassador reports, I guess...
I had actually mentioned the Aristotle quote a while back, and I did have the Symposium in mind as well, though I don't believe I mentioned it.
Let me dig up what I wrote...ah, there we go. About one month ago, I wrote:
his one-soul-separate-bodies* sister...
* Possibly a reference to the following quote attributed to Aristotle by Diogenes Laertius (though Diogenes was writing some 500 years later and not always good about his sources, that's never stopped anyone from using this quote or bypassing Diogenes and attributing it straight to Aristotle):
To the query "What is a friend?" his [Aristotle's] reply was, "A single soul dwelling in two bodies."
Plato's talking about sexual desire and romantic soul mates, but φίλος is the word used by Diogenes. Which I think could include siblings to Aristotle and/or Diogenes, though I wouldn't want to swear by it.
I do strongly suspect that's what our classically-educated Fritz had in mind, indeed. And if not, it's certainly what always comes to mind for me!
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Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
(BTW, about that: is Fritz or is Fritz not thinking of:
Aristotle “Love is composed of a single soul inhibiting two bodies.”
and Plato:
"“And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half of himself, the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy and one will not be out of sight of the other even for a moment”."
when he makes that statement re: Wilhelmine and himself to Heinrich?
(Note that neither Aristotle nor Plato had siblings in mind with that simile, at least as far as I dimly recall...)
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
Think that I was born and raised with my sister from Bayreuth, that these first attachments are indissoluble, that between us the keenest tenderness has never received the least alteration, that we have separate bodies, but that we have one soul. Think that, after having wiped away so many kinds of misfortunes capable of disgusting me with life, there is only one blow left for me to anticipate which will make life truly unbearable.
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
...There. Do you feel better now?
Heinrich: Only in the sense that rage has consumed 100% of my emotions, temporarily driving out grief. You know, there's *one* fraternal death I'm sure I could get over with all the speed and grace that you're looking for right now.
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
1.) Her three mainly quoted sources are Andrew Hamilton, sigh, Heinrich‘s early 20th century American biographer Chester Easum, and... Lehndorff. Yay to the last?
2.) Except Pangels, writing in the 1970s, is the first person, including nineteenth century people like Fontane, who gives us Heinrich the heterosexual. You read that right. Quoting Lehndorff‘s mentions of the Countess Bentinck to tell a tale of how Heinrich cheated on Mina with Bentinck, Lehndorff was the confidant of this affair, and felt very distressed when it was over and he and Heinrich weren‘t that close anymore. But, you know, in a platonic manner, just as a friend.
3.) Seriously, how anyone can read Lehndorff‘s diaries, even just the first volume, the original edition, and assume the above is beyond me.
4.) Marwitz doesn‘t exist. (Naturally, since Heinrich is straight.) Heinrich‘s early aversion to Big Bro is incomprehensible, his later hatred is warped, and for no reason other than fraternal jealousy. (AW having brought his death upon himself by his defeatism and gloom.) Sure, Heinrich advised Fritz against the Maxen disaster, and Fritz did it anyway, but Heinrich is still a know-it-all critisizing the great man with hindsight (even though she just mentioned he did it before the event itself). Heinrich‘s presumption of being as good a general as Fritz is megalomania. Treatment of civilians? Not an issue.
5.) Heinrich dies in self-caused isolation without any loved ones (naturally, since he‘s straight and there‘s no girlfriend around, and his wife is utterly estranged). But then, he never loved anyone. He was incapable. (The early Bentinck fling isn‘t presented as love, either, just as sex.) He could just hate. Why Fritz the eternally chill and forgiving kept trying is a mystery. Well, okay, he was a good uncle to Ferdinand‘s kids, and okay, Ferdinand and he got along, and yeah, some French people in France and out of it liked him, too, and Lehndorff seems to have done (still yearning for the days where he was a confidant to the Heinrich/Bentinck affair), but other than that.
6.) Heinrich liked the French Revolution because he liked anything French, i.e. Pangels quotes Hamilton on this. Okay, he also seems to have had a warped bias against kings.
7.) I‘m still not over Heinrich the heterosexual and Lehndorff the Heinrich/Bentinck shipper.
Given this, I‘m not sure I‘m up to the other chapters, but maybe she does better with the sisters...
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
Well, thank god for Ziebura, then.
Okay, he also seems to have had a warped bias against kings.
I wonder where he and AW could have gotten the idea that unlimited monarchy has its downsides? Not from Fritz the eternally chill!
7) ME NEITHER.
maybe she does better with the sisters...
Remember MacDonogh the "The sisters had the temerity to ask Fritz to pay off their debts" guy? Don't hold your breath.
Thanks for trying! Back to ambassador reports, I guess...
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
*blinks*
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
Re: The Very Secret Divorce Lawyer Text Messages
Let me dig up what I wrote...ah, there we go. About one month ago, I wrote:
his one-soul-separate-bodies* sister...
* Possibly a reference to the following quote attributed to Aristotle by Diogenes Laertius (though Diogenes was writing some 500 years later and not always good about his sources, that's never stopped anyone from using this quote or bypassing Diogenes and attributing it straight to Aristotle):
To the query "What is a friend?" his [Aristotle's] reply was, "A single soul dwelling in two bodies."
Plato's talking about sexual desire and romantic soul mates, but φίλος is the word used by Diogenes. Which I think could include siblings to Aristotle and/or Diogenes, though I wouldn't want to swear by it.
I do strongly suspect that's what our classically-educated Fritz had in mind, indeed. And if not, it's certainly what always comes to mind for me!