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Frederick the Great discussion post 9
...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
Rokoko Dragon Sickness or: Better stay away from rings of power as a Hohenzollern
Quite. Also, we do have canonical proof of Heinrich doing the same kicking down thing Fritz does in pretty much the same way in one particular regard, i.e. their respective treatments of their wives, i.e. the one people entirely in their social power who also symbolize to them their submission to the King's will in a way they perceive as violation of their personal ives. As Fritz lives with EC for a few years in Rheinsberg in what looks like a good arrangement from the outside - he doesn't ever pretend to be in love with her, but he gives the impression of getting along with her and appreciating her efforts on his behalf towards FW - so Heinrich during the 1750s gives the impression of getting along with his unwanted wife reasonably well - he even shops for her on occasion, they do social events together and otherwise keep out each other's way, while AW and Ferdinand flirt with Mina and thus provide harmless romantic courtship Heinrich won't even pretend to offer but is okay with his brothers offering, though in AW's case this intensifies somewhat to "totally would if she wasn't my sister-in-law". (AW even tells Lehndorff as much when he's got less than a month to live, and that's when he alters his will to "Mina should raise my kids and gets my engagement ring".)
...and in both cases, we get the turnaround after a key event - Fritz ascending to the throne and having no more father to please, AW dying and the 7 Years War experience for Heinrich - to cutting the unasked for wife out of their lives in any way they can, with some thrown in petty cruelty now and then. (EC having to ask whether or not she's allowed to attend events with five courtiers Amalie and Mom go to with 45 - and even when future FW2 gets married to her niece and namesake, she doesn't know whether or not she's allowed to go to the engagement party until literally the evening before because Fritz doesn't bother answering her enquiries and Fredersdorf isn't there anymore to make him -, the infamous "Madame has grown more corpulent" to her in front of everyone after the war, Mina getting her staff exchanged and having to remind Heinrich again and again of her budget when the boyfriends get the money thrown after.)
Of course, other than Mina, Heinrich has a pretty good track record of not punching down as stress relief and trauma dealing, what with the going out of his way to help civilians in occupied territory, treat prisoners well and keep the risks to his own men as low as he can. But that's Heinrich with the ever present example of Fritz to react against, not with a ring of power in his possession and no one above him anymore. I can't make up my mind, btw, as to whether he really wanted to become king. (Well, other than in the case of (not) becoming King of America. I'm still wondering how Steuben was planning to sell that one to Congress if Heinrich had said yes. "Guys, I've just had a vision of the future, and if we don't go for constitutional monarchy, we'll end up with an orange blob as President. So, here's what I'm thinking: how about the cousin of the guy we just got rid of, who has never been here, so won't be partisan, is gay like me, so won't found a dynasty, and who's really into French so might want to change that into our offficial language?
(BTW: not sure how well Heinrich spoke English, if at all, but he read the collection of Lady Mary's letters from Turkey - doesn't say whether in the original English or in translation -, found them lifely and very informative, and reccommends them to Big Brother in one of their old age letters.)
Anyway: so he didn't want to become King of America. Would he have wanted to become King of Poland? Or of Wallachia, which was what Catherine was offering? Since we don't know whether that was her idea or his before she asked Fritz, we'll never know. And with Prussia itself, he definitely had no shortage of ideas of how it should be governed, both in Fritz' day and in FW2's day, but the impression I got was that the role he wanted was Trusted (and listened to) Advisor, not monarch on the throne. I could be wrong, of course.
Re: Rokoko Dragon Sickness or: Better stay away from rings of power as a Hohenzollern
Yeah, I don't think either Heinrich or Fritz was power-hungry in the sense of being eager to acquire power. Digging through my memory, I'm failing to come up with any evidence that Crown Prince Fritz was in a big hurry to be king and take over ruling, as opposed to for Dad to die so the abuse could stop. When FW did die, Fritz is supposed to have said (to Fredersdorf, I think), "Now the fun times end."
But once *given* power, Fritz's control issues (plus I think FW's model of kingship, which should not be underestimated, even his political testament is like "Make sure you single-handedly control everything important") take over, and he's not willing to *share* power, or to be especially chill while exercising it. I keep coming back to Tolkien, but this is exactly what he was getting at: easy to avoid acquiring power, very hard to give it up, and equally hard to avoid abusing it.
So how would Heinrich have reacted, in the AU where he's the older brother in 1740, or where Glasow's poisoning attempt is successful and he becomes regent? One wonders.
And yes, Mina is an interesting data point, thank you for pointing that out.
Guys, I've just had a vision of the future, and if we don't go for constitutional monarchy, we'll end up with an orange blob as President. So, here's what I'm thinking: how about the cousin of the guy we just got rid of, who has never been here, so won't be partisan, is gay like me, so won't found a dynasty, and who's really into French so might want to change that into our offficial language?
AHAHAHA, but what's not to like? :D
Re: Rokoko Dragon Sickness or: Better stay away from rings of power as a Hohenzollern
"Guys, I've just had a vision of the future, and if we don't go for constitutional monarchy, we'll end up with an orange blob as President. So, here's what I'm thinking: how about the cousin of the guy we just got rid of, who has never been here, so won't be partisan, is gay like me, so won't found a dynasty, and who's really into French so might want to change that into our offficial language?
Heeeee.
Re: Rokoko Dragon Sickness or: Better stay away from rings of power as a Hohenzollern
No. I mean, in theory I suppose Fritz and AW and both of AW's son's could have died of cholera or something like that, but short of such an event, there's no way Heinrich would have become King. Prince Regent, now, that was a realistic possibility after AW's death and before FW2 was off age, if Fritz had died for whatever reason during the remaining 7 Years War. But I don't think Heinrich ever expected it. Unlike FW, who spent the last decade of his life being considered at death's door repeatedy (by Fritz and other people) only to recover after all, he didn't expect Fritz to die until the year in which Fritz actually did, and by then of course FW2 was already approaching middle age.